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Thoughts on GOON Manipulation of T2 BPOs

First post
Author
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-05-06 14:05:20 UTC
The R64 revenue is nothing compared to what Tech was in its heyday

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Victor Dathar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-05-07 16:41:59 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
The R64 revenue is nothing compared to what Tech was in its heyday


Oh but a Goon would say that!

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts

Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#23 - 2014-05-07 17:49:28 UTC
I would be glad to see them gone. That being said, if goons are celebrating it, then it's likely they already quietly got rid of theirs. Or the goons who are celebrating it, are not the ones that actually own the prints.
Fishbone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-05-07 19:20:02 UTC
Like most everything in game, people blame Goons for trying to make the game better has a whole. While they have the foresight to plan ahead and profit from these changes (most of the time), how can you blame them for investing billions of isk in "hoping" something goes in their favor. Everyone has the opportunity to invest in the future of the game, Goons are just better at it than most.

Has it was pointed out in the Fountain War, Goons were effective against the Drone Assist Fleets our enemies were using. Not till Goons adopted the tactic did it become a problem, and the public outcry forced CCP into fixing the "problem".

Like most things/changes, its not an issue until Goons start using it, then CCP is forced to do something. So if you look at it realistically, all these changes seem to nerf Goons, but all they are trying to make the game better for everyone, give everyone an even playing field.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#25 - 2014-05-07 19:46:44 UTC
Josephine Vera wrote:
Just came back to eve for the summer changes. Was watching the streams and reading reports. Before starting, I am one of the original T2 BPO owners in 2003 but have since sold them over the years and now retired with most of my time in pvp Pirate

Found one that really stood out: http://themittani.com/news/fanfest-industry-panel-discussion

Apparently there was nothing worth noting by any CCP representative regarding t2 bpos in the stream but this site which is written by a Goon has been unusually enthusiastic in reporting about it and phrasing it in such a way that it will be removed soon. Their CSM representative was also looking forward to it very much Shocked

While looking through the forums, I noticed several characters posting with the intention of destabilizing T2 BPO prices on every T2 BPO thread. Examples:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342071&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342035&find=unread

Most of which can be traced to a Goon Main or used in a Goon scam before.

I was surprised as obviously the biggest losers in this T2 BPO removal would be Goons as it is no surprise that they hold some of the largest amounts of t2 bpos in existence. However, they seem extremely supportive of the removal BUT there has been no liquadation of t2 bpos done by Goons Blink

It is obvious that their main intention is to scare the wider public into dumping their t2 bpos and buying up at dirt cheap prices while knowing that the removal of t2 bpos will likely never happen.

Thoughts?


Good idea, wished I thought about it first.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-05-07 23:54:49 UTC
Katherine Raven wrote:
I would be glad to see them gone. That being said, if goons are celebrating it, then it's likely they already quietly got rid of theirs. Or the goons who are celebrating it, are not the ones that actually own the prints.


Our finance department has already stated that we aren't invested in T2 BPOs because they aren't going to throw huge sums of money at a decade-long breakeven that already has the Sword of Devocles dangling over it.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#27 - 2014-05-08 00:28:07 UTC
Josephine Vera wrote:

It is obvious that their main intention is to scare the wider public into dumping their t2 bpos


Sorry.

But isn't there a significant cognitive dissonance between "the wider public" and "their T2 BPOs"?

While I don't have any issues with said BPOs as they are, as I make all the money I need with invention.

I still fail to see what impact it could have on the game in general if "the wider public owning at least one T2 BPO" had to see their precious getting tossed into a volcano ...

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Jaqen Hari
BioMass Cartel
#28 - 2014-05-08 11:48:18 UTC
GRR BOB

i bathe in T20 gifted bpos, nomad
Victor Dathar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-05-08 15:56:53 UTC
Jaqen Hari wrote:
GRR BOB


De mortuis nil nisi bonum my friend De mortuis nil nisi bonum.

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2014-05-08 16:13:03 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Of course, you had made a bundle off them, then used that bundle to gain dominance of all the R64's instead when Tech got nerfed, giving you even greater dominance over EVE & the Tech 2 markets resource supply.
So the 'Tech' nerf argument really isn't a strong argument since it getting Nerfed actually benefited the CFC.

while we will lobby to have broken things fixed, we will never not exploit them to the fullest extent of what will not get us banned until it is fixed (this is, generally, the best way to get it fixed and just good common sense)

so yeah while we were advocating tech being nerfed we were gobbling up every last tech moon we could, manipulating the market higher, and saving for the end of the tech era so we could do something like crush a worthless alliance sitting on suddenly valuble space

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2014-05-08 16:18:04 UTC
and most goons started after the bpo lottery and i don't think any of our finance directors owns a single t2 bpo, we've had people advocate we get some as an alliance before and all those people quickly decided that was a bad idea once we showed them the math

really if you have a t2 bpo and didn't grab the money and run even before the announcement idk what the hell is wrong with you, you can make so much more with 250b than you can with a 250b t2 bpo and without much more effort

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2014-05-08 16:55:51 UTC
full disclosure: at some point i may get bored and buy a cheap t2 bpo just to have one

i will then probably trash it just to show i can

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Jaqen Hari
BioMass Cartel
#33 - 2014-05-08 18:12:17 UTC
Having spoke about this in corp recently with the guy who runs our T2 BPO library (pretty sure the largest single collection ingame) we were thinking of ways which CCP could possibly phase them out of the game in a fair way for all sides, the best solution we could come up with was replacing them all with X number BPC runs.

Thing is CCP has been whispering of changing T2 BPOs yearly since the lottery inception and the outcries of pubbies who started later than 04 about how it was unfair they were late to the party, and year after year there have been no changes (bar the introduction of invention, which was sorely needed I may add), so I wouldnt hold your breath and certainly wouldnt auction anything on maybes.

All in all well have to wait for solid announcements, and keep watching people tearing up.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#34 - 2014-05-08 19:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Jaqen Hari wrote:
Having spoke about this in corp recently with the guy who runs our T2 BPO library (pretty sure the largest single collection ingame) we were thinking of ways which CCP could possibly phase them out of the game in a fair way for all sides, the best solution we could come up with was replacing them all with X number BPC runs.

Thing is CCP has been whispering of changing T2 BPOs yearly since the lottery inception and the outcries of pubbies who started later than 04 about how it was unfair they were late to the party, and year after year there have been no changes (bar the introduction of invention, which was sorely needed I may add), so I wouldnt hold your breath and certainly wouldnt auction anything on maybes.

All in all well have to wait for solid announcements, and keep watching people tearing up.



If they really wanted to remove them, they could probably just start buying them at market value using confiscated ISK, slowly and secretly, over a few years. Done slowly enough, the inclusion of that ISK in the economy would probably be negligible (and since it's confiscated ISK, it was already a part of the economy to begin with - it was just artificially removed), and purchasing them at market value eliminates any butthurt over their removal.

You wouldn't get the ones that aren't looking to sell at any price, but it's not a race, and they're not doing any actual harm beyond hitting a handful of crybaby have-nots in the feelings.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Otti Ottig
Hesso Business
#35 - 2014-05-09 08:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Otti Ottig
Jaqen Hari wrote:
Having spoke about this in corp recently with the guy who runs our T2 BPO library (pretty sure the largest single collection ingame) we were thinking of ways which CCP could possibly phase them out of the game in a fair way for all sides, the best solution we could come up with was replacing them all with X number BPC runs.


this old/bad idea has been discussed so many times...

bad because:

1) 1 rare collector items is not the same as 1000xx consumptable BPC's, wich makes 99% of the value of a BPO
2) bringing in so many new BPC's would make inventions pointless for a very long time, wich would cause so much more whining
3) going into personal hangars of only a certain group of ppl is something CCP should never do imho, at least not in this scale(number of ppl, and value in isk) as everyone who is playing eve to grind might think "w/e im grinding for, CCP will take it away if only enough ppl will cry about it"


SurrenderMonkey wrote:


If they really wanted to remove them, they could probably just start buying them at market value using confiscated ISK, slowly and secretly, over a few years. Done slowly enough, the inclusion of that ISK in the economy would probably be negligible (and since it's confiscated ISK, it was already a part of the economy to begin with - it was just artificially removed), and purchasing them at market value eliminates any butthurt over their removal.


I still think it's wrong to remove/nerf them to death... but this is the only functional way to remove them...
would be sort of fair, immediate, and permanent...would require soem GM time but after it's done, it's done.
Big Lynx
#36 - 2014-05-09 09:09:29 UTC
seems otti is one of the very few who is able to see that debate from both sides which i appreciate.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#37 - 2014-05-09 13:29:00 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
seems otti is one of the very few who is able to see that debate from both sides which i appreciate.



To be fair, the two sides of the debate aren't on equal footing. It's, "Math, Facts, and Logic," Vs. "B..b...but my feelings!"

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2014-05-09 14:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Otti Ottig wrote:

3) going into personal hangars of only a certain group of ppl is something CCP should never do imho, at least not in this scale(number of ppl, and value in isk) as everyone who is playing eve to grind might think "w/e im grinding for, CCP will take it away if only enough ppl will cry about it"

they go into everyone's hangars as they make a global change

i did not whine when they went into my nyx's hangars and removed its drones because they "only went into the hangars of supercarrier pilots", they made a global change that only affected certain people

well, that's cause they failed actually and i had the only nyx that could launch warriors in the game, but i would not have complained had they managed to do it right

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Nex Killer
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-05-09 17:18:38 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Jaqen Hari wrote:
Having spoke about this in corp recently with the guy who runs our T2 BPO library (pretty sure the largest single collection ingame) we were thinking of ways which CCP could possibly phase them out of the game in a fair way for all sides, the best solution we could come up with was replacing them all with X number BPC runs.

Thing is CCP has been whispering of changing T2 BPOs yearly since the lottery inception and the outcries of pubbies who started later than 04 about how it was unfair they were late to the party, and year after year there have been no changes (bar the introduction of invention, which was sorely needed I may add), so I wouldnt hold your breath and certainly wouldnt auction anything on maybes.

All in all well have to wait for solid announcements, and keep watching people tearing up.



If they really wanted to remove them, they could probably just start buying them at market value using confiscated ISK, slowly and secretly, over a few years. Done slowly enough, the inclusion of that ISK in the economy would probably be negligible (and since it's confiscated ISK, it was already a part of the economy to begin with - it was just artificially removed), and purchasing them at market value eliminates any butthurt over their removal.

You wouldn't get the ones that aren't looking to sell at any price, but it's not a race, and they're not doing any actual harm beyond hitting a handful of crybaby have-nots in the feelings.


At fanfest they said they're not going to give tech 2 BPO owners any isk for the BPO when they do the change of removing them. They said if you have one when the change happens you can cry all you want, but your not getting any isk for them from CCP.
Otti Ottig
Hesso Business
#40 - 2014-05-10 06:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Otti Ottig
Nex Killer wrote:


At fanfest they said they're not going to give tech 2 BPO owners any isk for the BPO when they do the change of removing them. They said if you have one when the change happens you can cry all you want, but your not getting any isk for them from CCP.


As if CCP would ever say anything like that.

He actually said They won't just take em away and say "screw you"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETMO6Uz4ESg

But I see you bidding on T2 BPO's using that arguement, GL