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Proposal to combat industrial assaults: Crash the market

Author
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-05 04:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Brian Harrelstein
So I'm sure we all know about CODE and their ganking operations by now, and occasionally we'll see random people pop up and complain that they suck, etc. Some have even (unsuccessfully) taken up arms in an attempt to stop their harassment.

I would like to issue a proposal to all capsuleers of New Eden. It's probably nothing new, but I'd like to see the public's responses anyways.

So, what I would like to propose is the following: No more mining, and no more ship manufacturing. For at least three months. Everywhere.

I know that to some of the large alliances that this may seem impossible due to pre-existing wars, but I would like to crash the economy to make a point. Some capsuleers have been privately funding CODE to continue their harassment in Lonetrek (amongst other places), and until they run out of ships and ISK, their actions will continue unabated.

If the entire population stops mining and building ships for 3 months, the current supply of ships and ore/minerals will plummet, prices will skyrocket, and it will eventually become unfeasible for these groups to operate. Combine that with the upcoming design changes to the industrial refining processors, and they won't be able to snatch up mineral-rich modules and melt those down to build ships either.

While I realize that what I am proposing is a larger scale than their current operations, the entire universe can use this opportunity to make a stand and prove to "Concord" that we are tired of CODE's actions. "Concord" has always taken the stance that if something bothers capsuleers enough, that we will rally together and eliminate the bothersome entities, without their intervention.

As I understand, CODE has been operating for over a year at this point (if not longer). We obviously can't eliminate CODE as it currently stands today because of their wealthy benefactors, and this could possibly be our only solution. I know it would be hard work, and require the dedication of capsuleers from every corner of New Eden, but I honestly think we could do it if we all buckled down and do what needs to be done.

I would like to propose that this action be taken immediately, until such a time that it becomes extremely cost-prohibitive to replace a ship that CODE would otherwise lose to Concord. Any delay will allow CODE to stockpile ships, materials and ISK required to allow them to continue operating.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#2 - 2014-05-05 04:20:10 UTC
No.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-05-05 04:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Brian Harrelstein
Desiderya wrote:
No.


Care to elaborate your reasons for a single-word dismissal?
Igeshter Teonuat
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-05-05 04:45:15 UTC
Brian Harrelstein wrote:
I know it would be hard work, and require the dedication of capsuleers from every corner of New Eden, but I honestly think we could do it if we all buckled down and do what needs to be done.


It occurs to me that this alone would do much to strengthen the resolve against Code, or anyone else, really, in other ways than a miner strike.
Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-05 05:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Brian Harrelstein
Igeshter Teonuat wrote:
It occurs to me that this alone would do much to strengthen the resolve against Code, or anyone else, really, in other ways than a miner strike.


I concur, but this more than a miner strike. What I am proposing is a universe-wide industrial shutdown.

I'm also aware that cooperation is something lacking in many capsuleers, so implementing this proposal may take some time. I would implore that anyone who reads this broadcast publish a formal response, and spread the word amongst the industrial community.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#6 - 2014-05-05 05:42:17 UTC
Hello Mr Harrelstein!

There's an admirable spirit behind your idea, and you've obviously put some thought into it.

The problem is, however, that such a strike would adversly effect so many other entities well beyond CODE.

Not to mention it would be simply impossible to implement such an idea. Not everyone hates CODE with a passion, and even between those who do I bet you'd struggle to convince many to go without their main income for a period of time in what essentially would be nothing more than an experiment, giving CODE pilots a short vacation or excuse to go shoot someone else.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-05-05 06:02:30 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Hello Mr Harrelstein!

There's an admirable spirit behind your idea, and you've obviously put some thought into it.

The problem is, however, that such a strike would adversly effect so many other entities well beyond CODE.

Not to mention it would be simply impossible to implement such an idea. Not everyone hates CODE with a passion, and even between those who do I bet you'd struggle to convince many to go without their main income for a period of time in what essentially would be nothing more than an experiment, giving CODE pilots a short vacation or excuse to go shoot someone else.


Howdy! Thank you for your input.

I understand that this will affect more than the intended target, but that is part of the point. Due to the fact that not every capsuleer reads these broadcasts, I believe that we will need to take these actions to draw a large scale attention to the matter.

It is unfortunate that everyone would pay the price for one group of capsuleers, but until the available funding and ships are depleted, I believe that this handful of capsuleers will continue their actions.

Whether they choose to take a vacation, is an unavoidable action on their part. Moving their operations wouldn't make much difference during a shutdown though, unless they can still acquire ships to attack industrialists. That would be unfortunate, but I do believe that if an industry shutdown were to occur (even a partial one), anyone funding their operation would hopefully be easier to identify.

At any rate, a decreased market of ore and ships would increase costs, would still provide a noticeable affect to them and their benefactors. As well, should they choose to spend their time doing their own industry, that is less time they can spend attacking other capsuleers. A net benefit overall, in my opinion.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#8 - 2014-05-05 06:16:32 UTC
Brian Harrelstein wrote:
At any rate, a decreased market of ore and ships would increase costs, would still provide a noticeable affect to them and their benefactors.

And to everyone else in New Eden sir.

I have no issue with CODE personally. They operate well outside of my area of operations and don't effect my lifestyle in any tangible way. I'm not into mining in any way personally, but I have family who are, and I'd not order them to stop producing themselves income because some people in Empire can't take the needed precautions and care to avoid the threats there.

Move to wormhole space, Mr Harrelstein, and CODE won't really matter anymore, ah.

Some may say you'd be better taking all that lost ISK from the strike and spending it on a war against CODE for better effect. But for other reasons that'd be pretty pointless too.

So what to do? Travel smart. Mine smart. Avoid them to begin with and you'll have removed those targets without ever needing to strike. I'm sure if CODE suddenly woke up and found themselves struggling to catch and murder miners or extort the same then it would impact business heavily.

But that won't happen because most of those effected by CODE don't take proper care and precautions and never will.


Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-05-05 06:46:17 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
And to everyone else in New Eden sir.

I have no issue with CODE personally. They operate well outside of my area of operations and don't effect my lifestyle in any tangible way. I'm not into mining in any way personally, but I have family who are, and I'd not order them to stop producing themselves income because some people in Empire can't take the needed precautions and care to avoid the threats there.

Move to wormhole space, Mr Harrelstein, and CODE won't really matter anymore, ah.

Some may say you'd be better taking all that lost ISK from the strike and spending it on a war against CODE for better effect. But for other reasons that'd be pretty pointless too.

So what to do? Travel smart. Mine smart. Avoid them to begin with and you'll have removed those targets without ever needing to strike. I'm sure if CODE suddenly woke up and found themselves struggling to catch and murder miners or extort the same then it would impact business heavily.

But that won't happen because most of those effected by CODE don't take proper care and precautions and never will.


I will admit, that in my current location, they are not impacting me either. That wasn't always the case though, but I am no longer a resident of Lonetrek. However, due to recent attacks in the trade hubs, said impact towards my person could soon change in the future.

I agree that if people fly smart, they could avoid such incidents, but that alone does not prevent them. Any ship can fall, regardless of it's fittings, whether it takes 5 seconds, or 30 seconds. As well, there are lots of capsuleers who have never heard of such incidents until they are the unfortunate recipient. These are the capsuleers most deserving of such actions on our behalf, regardless of whether or not they choose to equip their ships with defensive modules after such an incident.

One problem with officially declaring war though, is that capsuleers can choose to leave their current corporation (or choose not to join one in the first place), which makes them immune to war-based actions. I have seen this happen on many occasions, and this disturbs me. CODE is not the only entity that performs attacks on industrialists, but they are one of the most talked about.

I also find it disturbing that you are suggesting I move to a wormhole, due to the fact that you refer to yourself as a wormhole pirate. I'm willing to overlook that for the time being. As for your family, I am not asking you to force anyone to do anything, this is purely a voluntary effort.

However, I would like capsuleers to take this proposal seriously. If you feel that I am barking up the wrong tree, I respect your opinion.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#10 - 2014-05-05 06:58:56 UTC
So we stop selling ships and the modules for them in open market, the people still selling them get ganked and supply them to continue their endeveors. I see the validity of the reasoning, I just dont see how it would effect them specifically. Not to mention their benefactors probably manfacture ships and modules themselves, thus a market crash would have no effect what so ever aside from "haha we'll accomplish your goal before you u can, that'll show ya"
Karynn Denton
Astrometrica
#11 - 2014-05-05 07:01:12 UTC
Brian Harrelstein wrote:
One problem with officially declaring war though, is that capsuleers can choose to leave their current corporation (or choose not to join one in the first place), which makes them immune to war-based actions. I have seen this happen on many occasions, and this disturbs me.


*Looks at Brian Harrelstein's currrent corporation*

Yes, that annoys me too.


Karynn Denton

Caravan Master

Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-05-05 07:13:41 UTC
Karynn Denton wrote:
*Looks at Brian Harrelstein's currrent corporation*

Yes, that annoys me too.


I am merely a communications conduit for security reasons. I hope you can understand that I cannot divulge my true identity. I'm sorry that annoys you.

Deitra Vess wrote:
So we stop selling ships and the modules for them in open market, the people still selling them get ganked and supply them to continue their endeveors. I see the validity of the reasoning, I just dont see how it would effect them specifically. Not to mention their benefactors probably manfacture ships and modules themselves, thus a market crash would have no effect what so ever aside from "haha we'll accomplish your goal before you u can, that'll show ya"


I understand your viewpoint, and it is certainly a possibility that they are already self-sufficient. However, I don't see what they have to gain if they themselves crash the market, because they already have wealthy benefactors. That wealth won't do them any good if they cannot conduct business though, or if their wealth suddenly decreases due to increased market factors. They need the industrial market as much as anyone else. If we level the playing field by crashing the market, then their wealth also becomes moot. I don't believe their true intention is to crash the market themselves, in my opinion, their only intentions are extortion, and oppression.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#13 - 2014-05-05 07:16:10 UTC
Goodness me Miss Denton. You're looking rather ... ravishing.

*Blinks and shakes head*

Anyway...

Excuse me Mr Harrelstein...

... Pirate?

I'm not sure where you're hearing such scurrilous slander but I can assure you I'm nothing of the sort. I don't even live in Empire, and to classify something as piracy I've always believed you need laws and a proper society. Both of these things are scattered, arguable and for the most part non-existant where I come from sir.

(( Just FYI, my signature is pretty much an OOC thing written by me, not by Erica, to give a chuckle and some context to her character. She wouldn't actually wear the word "pirate" on her forehead and in fact detests the insinuation that she is one ;) Bio pages and sigs are generally taken in a 3rd-person or OOC context ))

Anyway, I shall endeavour to calm myself.

Barking up the wrong tree? Not at all. I just think your idea will see you have a terrible time trying to climb that tree. What you're suggesting is effectively the biggest undertaking that anyone in New Eden ever has. And for what? Some group in Empire that annoys a certain niche of it's society? I think you're over-stating exactly who CODE is and drastically over-estimating the effect they have, as much as I'm sure they'd hate to agree with me.

Quote:
CODE is not the only entity that performs attacks on industrialists, but they are one of the most talked about.

And therein sir is half the problem. You're feeding them credence and status merely by publishing your idea and trying to make it seem like dealing with CODE is everyone's responsibility and a matter of some urgency or importance, thus you're giving them the same importance.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Shelby Dusette
Division 13
#14 - 2014-05-05 07:26:10 UTC
Yeah mister, back offa my sista!!

She ain't no pirate, urggg.

Shoulda seen her in Jita, shooting at all the pirates. It was inspirational, even though she didn't take me along. She never takes me to the fun things! Leaves me here in this crappy system all the time and takes her "new friends". Meh.

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#15 - 2014-05-05 07:28:29 UTC
Uhhhh...

Thanks for the ... support?

When you're a lil older you can come do fun stuff too. Ok?

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-05-05 07:36:30 UTC
I'm sorry if you ladies felt insulted by my insinuation. I apologize.

Yes, I understand what I am proposing is a large-scale action, and historically they are doomed to failure. I can accept that for the time being. I am just as interested in the proposed outcome as well as any alternative actions you may suggest to combat industrial attacks by organizations bent on oppressing industrialists. But that is more likely suited to another broadcast, and I would gladly read one, should you choose to post it. In the future, I will not name one particular organization over another.

However, I believe some action must be taken at the present time. Perhaps a multi-pronged action is in order, as there is no one action that will satisfy the needs of industrialists.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#17 - 2014-05-05 07:49:34 UTC
Is ok.

Don't mind Shelby. She's just as quick to scream in my face as she is in my defence, ah.

Brian Harrelstein wrote:
However, I believe some action must be taken at the present time.

But why sir?

There are things I'd love to take action for, or against. But reality just doesn't always match up to my desires. In more ways that one. So I get on with life and do my best to focus purely on the things -I- enjoy. Even if by some miracle you managed to destroy CODE then another will take their place. There will always be such people in our universe sir, and if you spend all your time trying to combat them ... well, you won't have much of a life outside of that obsession.

They must have really upset you huh? Or those you speak for, for you to have put so much thought into this idea.

Personally I've no interest in halting the actions of CODE, or any other organization for that matter. I work for a group who engages in combat of opportunity and mercenary work. If I saw a CODE pilot in a wormhole system I'd probably shoot them, likewise if I was paid to do so. But this is true of anyone I would encounter, unless they're a friend or guest in my family's system.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Brian Harrelstein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-05-05 08:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Brian Harrelstein
Erica Dusette wrote:
But why sir?

There are things I'd love to take action for, or against. But reality just doesn't always match up to my desires. In more ways that one. So I get on with life and do my best to focus purely on the things -I- enjoy. Even if by some miracle you managed to destroy CODE then another will take their place. There will always be such people in our universe sir, and if you spend all your time trying to combat them ... well, you won't have much of a life outside of that obsession.

They must have really upset you huh? Or those you speak for, for you to have put so much thought into this idea.

Personally I've no interest in halting the actions of CODE, or any other organization for that matter. I work for a group who engages in combat of opportunity and mercenary work. If I saw a CODE pilot in a wormhole system I'd probably shoot them, likewise if I was paid to do so. But this is true of anyone I would encounter, unless they're a friend or guest in my family's system.


I can agree with your assessment that industrial assault organizations are a dime a dozen. In fact, I know that the particular industrial assault organization I had previously referenced is merely mimicking the actions taken by one of the largest alliances in New Eden. However, as far as I'm aware, that alliance does not conduct said actions as much as they used to, which makes them a non-issue for the time being.

You're wondering why I have such an interest in these organizations, though. Am I chasing a proverbial white whale? Perhaps. I can't really say for sure why I dislike them so much, perhaps it's the fact that they're taking advantage of uninformed and unsuspecting capsuleers. Perhaps I see myself as an industrialist as well as some sort of twisted freedom fighter. I don't know.

If "Concord" did a better job of warning new capsuleers to the dangers that confront them, and if those capsuleers handled those warnings better, then maybe I wouldn't feel so bad. Or maybe "Concord" needs to step up their enforcement and/or punishment for attacking innocent industrialists. I'm not saying that industrialists should be free from any danger, but they need to be better protected and prepared for what space travel presents them.

I'm not suggesting that my proposal is the only way of combating this particular issue, but I'll accept that you don't agree that such organizations should be required to pay for their actions though. Thank you for your time.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#19 - 2014-05-05 08:19:44 UTC
Brian Harrelstein wrote:
I'll accept that you don't agree that such organizations should be required to pay for their actions though.

I never said that at all.

Just that I'm not personally interested in going out of my way to make such people "pay", and that your idea to do so left much to be desired. But still, the sentiment is admirable, as I said.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

Karynn Denton
Astrometrica
#20 - 2014-05-05 09:10:47 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Goodness me Miss Denton. You're looking rather ... ravishing.


Oh thank you! Let's just hope the next Customs Patrolman who pulls me over thinks so too!
Needless to say, Pilot Dusette; you always look great Blink

Brian Harrelstein wrote:
I can't really say for sure why I dislike them so much, perhaps it's the fact that they're taking advantage of uninformed and unsuspecting capsuleers.


Might I suggest a far more effective form of action, Pilot Harrelstein - educate and inform your fellow industrialists of the dangers they face. Yes, I understand that it may take *effort*, but *doing something about it* usually does.

Brian Harrelstein wrote:
If "Concord" did a better job of warning new capsuleers to the dangers that confront them, and if those capsuleers handled those warnings better, then maybe I wouldn't feel so bad. Or maybe "Concord" needs to step up their enforcement and/or punishment for attacking innocent industrialists. I'm not saying that industrialists should be free from any danger, but they need to be better protected and prepared for what space travel presents them.


Ah here we go - you don't want to make the effort, do you? You want CONCORD to do the work. And you're using a fake identity to make this point. Don't do anything to damage your credibility, dear. Roll

Karynn Denton

Caravan Master

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