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Some EVE players can not separate themselves from the game.

First post First post First post
Author
Pestario Vargas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2014-05-05 03:03:53 UTC
Amarr Citizen 1312151005 wrote:
We all know lots of players in EVE are jerks in game.
Over the past five years I would find my self asking how much of it do they carry outside the game?
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Gevlon/status/463002069989736448
I think this pretty much sums it up.

vandalizing the monument is way overboard. These are "adults" doing this really pretty sad.
I think if it is found out who the player(s) are they are vandalizing the monument the related EVE accounts should be perma ban.
And as well as punished based on the countries laws of vandalism.

Poor taste.


What actual evidence do you have that it was Gevlon? Do you believe everything you see on the Interwebz?

Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#262 - 2014-05-05 03:09:15 UTC
Rhiannon Marius wrote:
Um you guys realize that country and nation are not the same thing right? There are many recognized native american nations but no recognized native american countries.


Of course, I live in the country of The United States of America, in the State of New York, I grew up on the land of the Oneida Nation and then later on the land of the Tuscarora Nation. That does not change, however, his argument that we don't count because he says so. To be fair, it's a bit nitpicky, and the argument could have been avoided except for his assertion that Haudenosaunee don't matter. I just keep getting hung up on his view that what he says trumps government law, government treaties and that because he says so, it means First People are non-entities.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#263 - 2014-05-05 03:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Rhiannon Marius wrote:
Um you guys realize that country and nation are not the same thing right? There are many recognized native american nations but no recognized native american countries.


Point of fact, a country can exist without sovereignty.

The Seneca Nation was recognized as a sovereign state in an act of US Congress. That's really all that's technically required. There are all sorts of shades that follow, and this is probably not the forum for a discussion of international politics and all the dog and pony shows that go along with it, but in a nutshell all that's really required is that one or more other countries recognize it as sovereign. This was the issue China had with the UN for many years was they were NOT recognized, even though they were the de facto rulers of China.

I dunno if this helps explain this at all, but basically we're sovereign because we have paper that says so. In theory we could have our own armies and prisons etc, we have the money, but at the moment the status quo is to the benefit of all parties. We sit back and make lots of money, and slowly buy back our territory from the US. It's slow going, but we've been making headway buying up Buffalo and Niagara Falls, and are working on other areas.

For a country to exist, all that's really required is that it has a legal jurisdiction over it's citizens. It doesn't have to be independent of anyone. An occupied country is still a country, but it is absolutely not sovereign.


A big part of it is how the people see themselves as well. I see myself as Seneca first and a US citizen somewhere down around 3. This is something we've been working on with our own schools, hospitals, and so on, because national identity is a big part of a country being sovereign.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#264 - 2014-05-05 03:11:51 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:
Just because you say it, you seem to think that it becomes true.


I hate to cherrypick you, but this statement coming from someone who has taken the position that a group of a few hundred people constitute a country is fairly ironic.


Quote:

You're attempting to enforce what you say on an entire group of people just because you don't want us to be who we are. I'm confused as to where you get this idea that because you say so, it becomes so. I'm sorry to inform you, however, that that isn't true.


Not at all. I honestly don't know where you are getting this supposed hostile intent from. I grew up around reservations, whether it was a Navaho one in Sierra Vista, AZ, or one of the four of five I lived near in the various times I lived in Alaska. I think the existence of reservations as a whole is a god damned tragedy.

But you're not your own country, whatever you might style it. To put it in EVE terms, it's like someone I used to know from Fweddit telling me that they're "in Goons now". They're not. they are, to put it bluntly, a pet of an entity much larger than themselves.

Once again, whether I am happy or not with how all of the irl stuff turned out is not relevant to the discussion, because that's just the truth of the matter.

As for Cygnet, I am rather sure I'm not getting any more useful discussion out of you, but I may as well try.

What "enemies"? What "wars"? Are you being serious? That sounds like something you took out of a South Park episode.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#265 - 2014-05-05 03:17:09 UTC
They should have added more space between peoples' names, they all run together.

That hacker guy zerocool from the movie Hackers is on that panel, maybe give him a call and have him trace the IP through the JPEG code protocol interwebs signature routers. computers.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#266 - 2014-05-05 03:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

As for Cygnet, I am rather sure I'm not getting any more useful discussion out of you, but I may as well try.

What "enemies"? What "wars"? Are you being serious? That sounds like something you took out of a South Park episode.


I was speaking a bit metaphorically, but to put it simply, instead of marching armies across boarders and seizing land, we're just buying it off them. If a company tries to pollute our lands, we run them out of business. We work with unions to picket their plants. We broadcast their names on our media outlets and unleash muckraking journalists followed by lawyers. We shut down political opponents not by taking their hair, but, by looking like the good guys because we open businesses in their area and employ the people that they couldn't get jobs.

That's what I mean when I talk about fighting from the board room rather than the battlefield.
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#267 - 2014-05-05 03:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Higdon
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xavier Higdon wrote:
Just because you say it, you seem to think that it becomes true.


I hate to cherrypick you, but this statement coming from someone who has taken the position that a group of a few hundred people constitute a country is fairly ironic.


Quote:

You're attempting to enforce what you say on an entire group of people just because you don't want us to be who we are. I'm confused as to where you get this idea that because you say so, it becomes so. I'm sorry to inform you, however, that that isn't true.


Not at all. I honestly don't know where you are getting this supposed hostile intent from. I grew up around reservations, whether it was a Navaho one in Sierra Vista, AZ, or one of the four of five I lived near in the various times I lived in Alaska. I think the existence of reservations as a whole is a god damned tragedy.

But you're not your own country, whatever you might style it. To put it in EVE terms, it's like someone I used to know from Fweddit telling me that they're "in Goons now". They're not. they are, to put it bluntly, a pet of an entity much larger than themselves.

Once again, whether I am happy or not with how all of the irl stuff turned out is not relevant to the discussion, because that's just the truth of the matter.

As for Cygnet, I am rather sure I'm not getting any more useful discussion out of you, but I may as well try.

What "enemies"? What "wars"? Are you being serious? That sounds like something you took out of a South Park episode.


It is not what "we" style ourselves as, but rather how "we" are recognized by other sovereign countries. We have, through treaties, agreed to pay federal taxes in return for recognition as citizens of the US and the protection of our lands by the US, but we could also choose to stop paying those taxes, renounce our citizenship and declare war on any country we so choose. Would that end well for us? Probably not, but that doesn't somehow negate our ability to do so. Like I admitted, I'm being nitpicky with this, but I just can't help it. The simple truth is that the obsession with classifying sovereign land as merely a "reservation," the fact that almost nobody knows that we even exist, let alone that we exist as a separate and equal people, and that we are more than just a "few hundred people" is a bit demeaning to me. Nobody argues the sovereignty of Canada or Mexico, though they only exist at the good will of the US. Nobody argues that Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Switzerland and every other European country aren't their own, separate, independent and sovereign countries even though they only exist because of the intervention of the US in WWII and later the graciousness of the US in returning their borders to the prewar lines. And yet, because we constitute such a tiny minority of people, we're treated as an after thought. Perhaps it's not malicious on your part, and I'm sure it isn't, but the fact is that most people still see us as secondary. You see it as reservations, where we see it as our homes, our lives, our heritage and our future. You see us as a tiny group of people dependent on the US to survive, where we see it as a tiny group of people too proud to lie down and die. Our sovereignty is not a right bequeathed to us by others, it is a right inherent to us that is as inalienable as those outlined in the Constitution. We're not just "some people" trying to style ourselves as something greater, rather we're a great people trying to preserve who we are and to remind others that we're still here.
Asia Leigh
Dauntless Divergence
#268 - 2014-05-05 03:46:16 UTC
Okay... How hard is it to make a fake twitter account to make someone look bad...

Also not an official witch hunt yet, Ripard-Teg I choose you :D
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Shurgin Ambraelle
Vagrants Against Gankers In Null Alliances
#269 - 2014-05-05 03:48:36 UTC
Amarr Citizen 1312151005 wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Shurgin Ambraelle wrote:
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:
Is there any proof it was actually him?



CCP Falcon posted about this on Page 2 confirming


Please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't confirm that it was him.

What I can confirm is that the monument has indeed been vandalized, and we're looking into what action we can take, once we confirm who is responsible.

Smile

Is it something that can be / will be repaired?


I hope so but it looked like stone to me. That is rough!!

The Biggest FUCer of them all!! RL COMES 1ST!!

-The Gene Pool Could Use a Little Chlorine!! Proud Member of InPanic!!

Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#270 - 2014-05-05 03:48:54 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Defacing property is so much more serious than attempting to end someone's life in the world of goons?

I like where this thread has gone.

Community outrage --> internet lawyering ---> crimes against humanity and attempted murder ---> Grrr Goons.

It always comes back to Grrr Goons.


All that is left is a blog post from Riptard Teg, Goon Spai, and it will be complete.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

Shurgin Ambraelle
Vagrants Against Gankers In Null Alliances
#271 - 2014-05-05 03:50:09 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Why do people take this monument so seriously?

Do they take it personally that the name they typed in for their pixels is somewhere in the real world? Is that a source of pride to some people? If so, wat.


I think they think of this as a thank you gift from CCP. Oh CCP by the way thank you for the Gift. Troll over.

The Biggest FUCer of them all!! RL COMES 1ST!!

-The Gene Pool Could Use a Little Chlorine!! Proud Member of InPanic!!

Asia Leigh
Dauntless Divergence
#272 - 2014-05-05 03:57:03 UTC
Xavier Higdon wrote:

Stuff


The Enter key... Please use it, I'm getting a headache reading this
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
rswfire
#273 - 2014-05-05 03:57:43 UTC
I had no idea this was up already. That didn't take very long.

On topic, this is pretty sad and definitely juvenile. I liked what The Mittani wrote on Twitter:

Quote:
Shameful. I dislike Xenuria, but that's a monument to all of us, not just some of us.


Sums it up quite nicely, really.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#274 - 2014-05-05 04:08:01 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
If I had been the victim of one of the worst forms of an abhorrent crime in real life, I'm not sure how I would feel having my name (even a gaming name), on anything, alongside someone who has a reputation in the community for connection with those things (rightly or wrongly).


Are you claiming that Xenuria committed some abhorrent crime in real life?
Asia Leigh
Dauntless Divergence
#275 - 2014-05-05 04:11:45 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
If I had been the victim of one of the worst forms of an abhorrent crime in real life, I'm not sure how I would feel having my name (even a gaming name), on anything, alongside someone who has a reputation in the community for connection with those things (rightly or wrongly).


Are you claiming that Xenuria committed some abhorrent crime in real life?


Sounds like he is, and he was about to provide all the proof he has to confirm it, Right?
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#276 - 2014-05-05 04:20:57 UTC
I heard Xenuria tortures Furbies.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#277 - 2014-05-05 04:21:09 UTC
Wow. That is really low.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#278 - 2014-05-05 04:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


I hate to cherrypick you, but this statement coming from someone who has taken the position that a group of a few hundred people constitute a country is fairly ironic.


This might be a point... if there were only a few hundred of us.

Grand total the Seneca come to something like 25k people. More when you get into 'unregistered' natives and sub groups like the Minqua. You're looking at several million factoring in the League. (The Western Door isn't just the name of our franchise of steak houses)

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I heard Xenuria tortures Furbies.



You say that like it's a bad thing.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#279 - 2014-05-05 04:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Mara Rinn wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
If I had been the victim of one of the worst forms of an abhorrent crime in real life, I'm not sure how I would feel having my name (even a gaming name), on anything, alongside someone who has a reputation in the community for connection with those things (rightly or wrongly).


Are you claiming that Xenuria committed some abhorrent crime in real life?

No, not at all. How about quoting the full post and not just part that helps you push an imagined agenda.

I was saying, it's difficult to judge the person who did this without the facts, even though we can all hate the act and see permanent ban as the appropriate outcome.

People do stupid and dumb things. Even people who later regret their actions. Calling the person scum, etc. doesn't serve much purpose.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#280 - 2014-05-05 04:35:52 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
Sounds like he is, and he was about to provide all the proof he has to confirm it, Right?
You are wrong if that's what you believe I was saying. Go back and read my early posts in this thread.