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Warning! If you are training Combat Drone Operation, STOP NOW!

Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2014-05-05 04:53:10 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I trained CDO long before this expansion was ever announced.
I trained it because it provided benefits to me.
If those benefits are then given to people who did not train the skill, then I should be reimbursed in some way for having trained the skill.
It's pretty simple.

You have received those benefits. +10% drone damage for that entire time you had trained it. Hell, I've even seen you use that same argument yourself on other things. Seriously.....
CDO is NOT vanishing. CDO is splitting into 2 skills.
SDO is being renamed.

There is just a weird Niche case where SDO is renamed and becomes 2 additional skills as well.

But at no point is CDO being deleted. And at no point do you ever loose SP.

Let me ask you: what's the difference between CCP taking away a skill and all the bonuses that come with it, and CCP taking away a skill and giving everyone all of the bonuses of the skill at level 5?

There really isn't one. You might argue that I lose something in the first case and not the second, namely that I lose the effects of the skill in the first case and not the second. The reality of it is that I lose the advancement I made over other players either way. This was an advancement I spent time on training skills. CCP reimburses in the first case because they recognize this. But if they reimburse in the first case they should reimburse in the second.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2014-05-05 06:15:26 UTC
meh .. they announced the changes and then after forum discussion and comments realized it would not work the way they thought and amended it, nothing to see there.

That said ... I can see how if you had paid real cash for PLEX to MCT train a batch of alts in CDO, only to find out they only needed SDO which they already had it would be annoying.

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#63 - 2014-05-05 06:23:37 UTC
Can't say I care I've had all drone skills excluding specializations at V for years. PBig smile
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2014-05-05 06:43:00 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Can't say I care I've had all drone skills excluding specializations at V for years. PBig smile



Someone should put up the argument that people who had max damage from T2s before the changes should automatically get racial spec V so they retain their max damage with T2s after the change Twisted
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#65 - 2014-05-05 06:58:11 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I have been building an anonymous alt to actually play the PvP portions of the game again.


Anything in particular stopping you from pvp as Dinsdale?
I personally would be delighted to see you in Adirain :)

Why hide behind some sh!tty alt?


I haven't been out that way in a long time, though I started my career in Verge Vendor anout 5 jumps from there.
But no thanks, I think you just described why I won't be found spoiling for a fight with this char.

That being said, I have not seen The United hanging out in the Rancer pipe the last week.
Maybe you can catch up with me there.
Jason Wyght
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-05-05 08:43:00 UTC
Tika Hemah wrote:
This is a warning to those of you currently training Combat Drone operation to 5 in anticipation of the drone changes detailed in the 4/1/14 dev blog: Giving drones an assist


Quote:
We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to.


This was changed in the discussion thread on 4/3/14 (page 32)

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Now to get the 2 new skills to 5, just need scout drone operation 5 (rank 1 skill). Don't even need combat drone operation (rank 2) at all!

No word on which new skill will unlock drone link augmentor II (currently require CDO 5).

The dev blog as of this writing is not updated to reflect this new change.

I hope for those of us that trained CDO to 5 based on the dev blog will get a skill point refund.


What uf all my drone.skills iutside of fighter abd bombers are maxed? Do I get a free 2 million SP?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#67 - 2014-05-05 08:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Let me ask you: what's the difference between CCP taking away a skill and all the bonuses that come with it, and CCP taking away a skill and giving everyone all of the bonuses of the skill at level 5?
That's not what they're doing, though.

What they're doing is ensuring that you don't lose any bonus or equipment option you had access to before. In fact, let's put some emphasis on the important bit: you don't lose. Some people might in the process gain a bit more than they had before, but so what — you still don't lose anything.

In fact, the way this is set up, you gain from the switch-over no matter which combination of the two skills you've trained (if you trained neither, you get nothing). Even in the case of V+V, you still get more skills than you had before.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2014-05-05 09:38:58 UTC
I do not care if some newbie without such basic skills trained receives an extra pittance of skillpoints that I don't get.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-05-05 11:29:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
What they're doing is ensuring that you don't lose any bonus or equipment option you had access to before. In fact, let's put some emphasis on the important bit: you don't lose. Some people might in the process gain a bit more than they had before, but so what — you still don't lose anything.


They are here, but sentries they ARE going against the "if you can use it today, you can use it tomorrow' paradigm.

So there is precedent.

/off_topic
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#70 - 2014-05-05 11:58:00 UTC
This thread may contain traces of autism, which is harmful to readers, pregnant women and small children
I Have 18Accounts
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-05-05 13:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: I Have 18Accounts
Tippia wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Let me ask you: what's the difference between CCP taking away a skill and all the bonuses that come with it, and CCP taking away a skill and giving everyone all of the bonuses of the skill at level 5?
That's not what they're doing, though.

What they're doing is ensuring that you don't lose any bonus or equipment option you had access to before. In fact, let's put some emphasis on the important bit: you don't lose. Some people might in the process gain a bit more than they had before, but so what — you still don't lose anything.

In fact, the way this is set up, you gain from the switch-over no matter which combination of the two skills you've trained (if you trained neither, you get nothing). Even in the case of V+V, you still get more skills than you had before.

Before the dev annoucement, I had Combat 0 Scout 5.

If I kept it that way, I'd have Light/Med 5 and Scout 5 after the patch.

I trained Combat 5. After the patch, I still only have Light/Med 5 and Scout 5.

What do I get for having Combat 5? The other me didn't have Combat 5. He still gets the same thing.

If I get nothing, that is wasted SP.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2014-05-05 13:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
I Have 18Accounts wrote:
What do I get for having Combat 5? The other me didn't have Combat 5. He still gets the same thing.

If I get nothing, that is wasted SP.

…but you get something: the light and medium drone skills. Your SP is not wasted because, not only did you get a whole bunch of bonuses before, you get to keep those bonuses and get a new skill for free, even though it means CCP is handing out skill levels you haven't spent any time training.
I Have 18Accounts
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2014-05-05 13:23:34 UTC
I suppose it is a bit daft to argue that someone else shouldn't get something for free if I'm not paying for it. Within the realms of this sandbox though, someone else getting something for free does affect me. Your ability to field better drones and better damage can change the result of a fight I'm involved in, despite that you've dedicated less training time to it than I have.

On fresh characters with only the two skills involved:
- Person A has two skills trained to V
- Person B has one skill trained to V
- Both have identical skill sheets post-patch

It's a balance issue really.

Beyond that, since Scout Drone Operation V is not being removed, it is illogical to base the new skill on your Scout Drone level. Never before has a new skill been introduced as such.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2014-05-05 14:42:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
I Have 18Accounts wrote:
Beyond that, since Scout Drone Operation V is not being removed, it is illogical to base the new skill on your Scout Drone level. Never before has a new skill been introduced as such.

It's illogical because the drone skill dependencies were illogical and a large part of those dependencies are being removed. The transition they're providing is really the only one that makes sense.

Imagine if training small hybrids did not let you use small hybrids — it only gave you bonuses to them — and that if you actually wanted to use the guns, you'd have to train sharpshooting instead. That's pretty much how the drone skills currently work. They are changing it so that the skills that unlock the equipment also is the skill that gives bonuses to that piece of equipment: i.e. light drones are unlocked and bonused by the light drone skill; medium drones are unlocked and bonused by the medium drone skill; drone control range is bonused by drone avionics, which also unlocks the drone control range mods.

Since SDO is being replaced by a skill that unlocks completely different equipment, you can't simply just transition it as is. It is entirely logical that you get to keep using the equipment you've unlocked — if that means handing out anywhere between one and three ranks worth of new skills, then so be it. No matter what you current position, you only ever gain from the switch-ove, with the one exception being if you have trained no drone skills at all, in which case you remain exactly where you were and gain nothing.
Tika Hemah
Doomheim
#75 - 2014-05-05 15:01:22 UTC
Bottom line is knowing what we know now, if you haven't trained CDO at this point on your character, would you do so now?

I think most of us would not. Hence this public service announcement.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#76 - 2014-05-05 16:03:04 UTC
Yes. It is a rank 2 skill. It will take less than 2 weeks to get to 5. It will give me a 25% increase to drone damage. Not to mention the below can be interpreted as meaning SDO will give you X amount of levels in LDO, and CDO will give you X amount of rank in MDO. Just because you interpret that the below indicates training one skill will give you both skills, does not make it so. To be safe I would train both.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.

Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#77 - 2014-05-05 17:59:48 UTC
Big smile Man, you guys that are sweating these peanut skills are going to have a heart attack when you get to the rank 12 and 14 big boy skills. What?

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2014-05-05 18:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Belt Scout wrote:
Big smile Man, you guys that are sweating these peanut skills are going to have a heart attack when you get to the rank 12 and 14 big boy skills. What?

.

I just finished a rank 14 at level 5 on my alt and a rank 9 at level 5 on this character. I'm training a rank 8 to 5 now and probably eventually two more rank 12 skills to 5.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-05-05 18:38:34 UTC
Tika Hemah wrote:
It is worth it if it saves one person from training CDO 5 at this point.

What if I want my 5% damage boost? They also updated the original post in that thread.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#80 - 2014-05-05 18:45:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Big smile Man, you guys that are sweating these peanut skills are going to have a heart attack when you get to the rank 12 and 14 big boy skills. What?

.

I just finished a rank 14 at level 5 on my alt and a rank 9 at level 5 on this character. I'm training a rank 8 to 5 now and probably eventually two more rank 12 skills to 5.


Yep. I have skill que OCD and like my skills nice and tidy. My main toon and grid booster toon are both mapped for for charisma right now.Sad Both are about a week from completing FC5, which will wrap up the maxing out of everything in leadership at last. Big smileBig smile

Was just poking around a little while ago to see if theres anything that requires charisma that a pvp or booster toon would need. I dont think so, but I'll look again before killing that awful charisma heavy map.

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.