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Summary of Concerns (Let's consolidate)

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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#141 - 2014-05-05 05:09:52 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:



4) No one gives a ****. They do the only right thing and everyone is happy about it. (I don't count PS3 kids)


It is precisely this kind of attitude that forces new players to say, "ehh im not staying" its not the learning curve its the **** attitudes like this about the rest of the gaming community. Quite frankly, CCP **** on Dust player by pulling what they did.

I would point out not all of the EVE community is as disjointed with everyone as you and those like you are. Look at it this way, lets say CCP decides to reduce the EVE Online keynote down to say 40 minutes. and in that 40 minutes they describe all the major features and fun stuff coming up in the next expansion. In the last 10 minutes, a dev says, "Ohhh btw this is a deployment we are planning on making to xbox, Im sure you guys will get an expansion in about 7-8 months when we get back on our feet from pushing this out to possibly work on console. We aren't stopping development of EVE but you will see slower updates due to us now working with the xbox one."

I don't need to hear your response to know that there...would...be....hell to pay. CCP would get crucified and we would all be in Jita again shooting a statue. Well, essentially this is what has just happened to PS3 players. I just thought I would put it into perspective so that in the midst of you not giving a ****, that one day you may....though I doubt it.



Remember, you're dealing with EvE players. If you assume that every single one of them is a self centered , thieving, lying, scum sucker without an once of human decency or compassion combined with an overwhelming delusion that 'it can't happen here' you might be wrong about one; two, maybe three times a week, tops. And that's it you talk in local and make the sort of monthly orbit through the game that I make doing forty hops a day.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#142 - 2014-05-05 05:23:02 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:



4) No one gives a ****. They do the only right thing and everyone is happy about it. (I don't count PS3 kids)


It is precisely this kind of attitude that forces new players to say, "ehh im not staying" its not the learning curve its the **** attitudes like this about the rest of the gaming community. Quite frankly, CCP **** on Dust player by pulling what they did.

I would point out not all of the EVE community is as disjointed with everyone as you and those like you are. Look at it this way, lets say CCP decides to reduce the EVE Online keynote down to say 40 minutes. and in that 40 minutes they describe all the major features and fun stuff coming up in the next expansion. In the last 10 minutes, a dev says, "Ohhh btw this is a deployment we are planning on making to xbox, Im sure you guys will get an expansion in about 7-8 months when we get back on our feet from pushing this out to possibly work on console. We aren't stopping development of EVE but you will see slower updates due to us now working with the xbox one."

I don't need to hear your response to know that there...would...be....hell to pay. CCP would get crucified and we would all be in Jita again shooting a statue. Well, essentially this is what has just happened to PS3 players. I just thought I would put it into perspective so that in the midst of you not giving a ****, that one day you may....though I doubt it.



Remember, you're dealing with EvE players. If you assume that every single one of them is a self centered , thieving, lying, scum sucker without an once of human decency or compassion combined with an overwhelming delusion that 'it can't happen here' you might be wrong about one; two, maybe three times a week, tops. And that's it you talk in local and make the sort of monthly orbit through the game that I make doing forty hops a day.

Well, since DUST will still be actively developed for some time it will likely be getting more attention than most other games built for the soon to be replaced PS4. Granted, it will not evolve into what everyone hoped for on that platform, and that's a shame... but you probably better get used to PS3 games as a whole starting that long walk into darkness.

For those of you with computers, which obviously includes you, if you go with Legion you will likely have a huge leg up on the rest of us.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#143 - 2014-05-05 05:24:31 UTC
Quote:
Why do i always start to giggle when someone claims to be an "it professional" (whatever that means....its a..broad field you know?)

Hey now, I know lots of guys in IT... it's not only for broads. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#144 - 2014-05-05 05:26:31 UTC
Will we be able to destroy existing gates in high sec? Because I would like that. Specifically, all the gates in Jita.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#145 - 2014-05-05 05:27:15 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Well, since DUST will still be actively developed for some time it will likely be getting more attention than most other games built for the soon to be replaced PS4. Granted, it will not evolve into what everyone hoped for on that platform, and that's a shame... but you probably better get used to PS3 games as a whole starting that long walk into darkness.

For those of you with computers, which obviously includes you, if you go with Legion you will likely have a huge leg up on the rest of us.



Oh, come on R1, you know I don't do FPS. World of Warplanes is bad enough. That weird jiggly motion they make all walk animations gives me motion sickness.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#146 - 2014-05-05 05:29:03 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Will we be able to destroy existing gates in high sec? Because I would like that. Specifically, all the gates in Jita.



Again, possible but remember the practical limitations. They have HP above 350m. Yeah, you could do it, with a huge enough fleet to crash the node ten times over, but without cap ships it's probably a non starter.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#147 - 2014-05-05 05:33:23 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
I think OP might be an IZ alt.


He has to get in line behind Ginger Magician, Winter Steele, Entity, Mittani, Chribba, Joe Williams, and Hilmar. I'm supposedly an alt of all, some, or none of them.

No, sorry, this really is my main.


Reiisha wrote:


EDIT: Put my foot in my mouth... Posted too soon. My apologies. Misread your post(s).

Anyway, i do think that he meant *all* player-constructed structures, especially outposts, which are currently (afaik) indestructible. NPC structures will most likely still be indestructible.



You can make anything in the game destructible, you can just make destroying them impractical. I posted an idea earlier about how NPC stations could be destructible, but so time consuming to destroy that there's little actual difference between it and invulnerability. Mittani could get headlines blowing up Jita 4-4, but it'd be something that took every single goon shooting for a month solid to pull off.

Imagine the loot spew.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#148 - 2014-05-05 05:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Asia Leigh
So, this is the official Q.Q thread, okay...

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
FYI:

This thread is now the designated consolidated thread on discussing concerns or offering constructive negative feedback on the stuff announced during the Fanfest keynote. Any other threads on the same topic will be locked as redundant. Please report them if you see them.

Thanks guys!


Ok, this is the information we have in hand, and I'm tired of people cross posting about it in several threads, so time to consolidate.

1) Everything will be destructible.

I personally do not see this happening. It would be effectively the end of high sec, if not Eve. But in order to be able to both build and destroy 'everything', then, well...


2) Freighters are being changed in a manner which would allow cap ships to be brought into high sec.

Based on what we know this *is* the case. Several people have suggested that there will be a stealth nerf of some sort to prevent this, but it dovetails too neatly with number 1 for my taste, so we have to consider that they're going to change the rules about cap ships in high sec.

[EDIT: Stealth Nerf it is. Fozzie (and CSM confirms) states that they're going to increase packaged sizes, though under the new system freighters will, in fact, be able to carry more than they currently do (despite a heavy nerfing, rigs will allow more cargo space). Which makes me wonder WTF they were talking about when they said they couldn't do that all those years ago when we suggested it in the first place? Interestingly, the F&I crowd have come up with about a dozen much better ways to control 'caps in high sec' while at the same time, improving the market, if any devs reading this would care to stroll over there.]


3) More new content per year.

I'm not opposed to this in the least, but as an IT professional, I have to call into question how effective QA can be with this sort of time table. Let's be honest, CCP has trouble with game breaking bugs with just two major content releases a year. Firing off new content like a machinegun strikes me as being a bit foolhardy in that context.

4) the Dust debacle

Frankly this worries me. There's real potential to damage CCPs reputation in this, and real negative repercussions might even be felt here in EvE.

5) [new] The Freighter changes will make freighters even more easily ganked by suicides.

I have to admit that.... I can see this. The changes as outlined so far *seem* to offer a tank nerf no matter what rigs you put in it, or a small cargohold buff.



1. Pretty sure they were talking about Player built stations

2. Easiest way to combat this is to raise the packed size of 'banned' capitals to a size that would make it not be able to fit in a freighter. Its not really that hard to prevent. Also, even if there was a bug at patch day that allowed this, Isn't using a cap in an offensive manner in high sec a bannable offense?

3. This is bad how? They can release content that is ready when its ready, and hold off on content that still needs to be ironed out instead of rushing out to make the 6 month deadline. That can prevent some of the massive bugs that are known to happen after major releases...

4. Don't play DUST, can care less...

5. Sure, because people will put cargohold optimizations instead of agility or tank rigs... How is that CCP's fault? You can't fix stupid.

You guys are reading way too much into this for sure
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#149 - 2014-05-05 07:21:20 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:


1. Pretty sure they were talking about Player built stations

2. Easiest way to combat this is to raise the packed size of 'banned' capitals to a size that would make it not be able to fit in a freighter. Its not really that hard to prevent. Also, even if there was a bug at patch day that allowed this, Isn't using a cap in an offensive manner in high sec a bannable offense?

3. This is bad how? They can release content that is ready when its ready, and hold off on content that still needs to be ironed out instead of rushing out to make the 6 month deadline. That can prevent some of the massive bugs that are known to happen after major releases...

4. Don't play DUST, can care less...

5. Sure, because people will put cargohold optimizations instead of agility or tank rigs... How is that CCP's fault? You can't fix stupid.

You guys are reading way too much into this for sure


1) No, we've had several sources now where they really are looking at EVERYTHING. However, whether or not EVERYTHING will really be destroyable is questionable at best, but it really is, apparently, on the table.

2) Well, again, previously that was not doable for reasons that were never revealed. So why it was suddenly doable, we don't know either.

4) You play eve though right? That's gonna effect us here too, one way or another.

5) The nerf is hard enough it takes two rigs of a given type to get a single stat back up to where it is now. I dunno if you've noticed this, but freighters are made of tinfoil already, and their current agil is sort of lulzy. It sort of makes cargo expander really the only choice if you're going to fly a freighter. Smart people will start flying something else if they possibly can. Expect T2 industrial to become more popular again and the price of freighters to drop to just above whatever they recycle for as the market floods with people trying to sell. Jump Freighters will take the biggest hit, since they will only ever be able to get a single stat back up to what it is now.
Asia Leigh
Kenshin Industries.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#150 - 2014-05-05 07:58:08 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:


5) The nerf is hard enough it takes two rigs of a given type to get a single stat back up to where it is now. I dunno if you've noticed this, but freighters are made of tinfoil already, and their current agil is sort of lulzy. It sort of makes cargo expander really the only choice if you're going to fly a freighter. Smart people will start flying something else if they possibly can. Expect T2 industrial to become more popular again and the price of freighters to drop to just above whatever they recycle for as the market floods with people trying to sell. Jump Freighters will take the biggest hit, since they will only ever be able to get a single stat back up to what it is now.


Generally, My hauler alt uses blockade runners and Jump freighters for low sec and null sec runs. For high sec I use an orca if I can get away with it. Get 250k ehp out of it in full tank mode. Plus its much quicker to align and get into warp. That being said I still get 187k ehp out of my freighter, with max level 5 tanking skills, not exactly paper thin, but I only use it for stuff that won't fit in an orca.

Yes freighter are fairly easy to gank, but god forbid if you get someone to actually scout out their route, have an alt or a friend web you into warp, or any other precautions that a normal person would take to avoid being turned into a fireworks display.

Jump freighters shouldn't be hit as hard, because of its tank bonus inherent in training the Jump freighter skill. Thats 50% more tank if you train it to V, and there I would say cargo-hold optimizations would be good. For a T1 freighter though tanking rigs for your races chosen tank is probably still best. After all if your filling your freighter to the till anyways, your probably over the 1 Billion isk mark, and making yourself a target already.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2014-05-05 09:43:27 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
1) No, we've had several sources now where they really are looking at EVERYTHING.

bull
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#152 - 2014-05-05 09:52:40 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
5) The nerf is hard enough it takes two rigs of a given type to get a single stat back up to where it is now.

What is the source for this?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#153 - 2014-05-05 10:01:09 UTC
Remember kids;

Its only real when its in the Patch NotesTM


"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#154 - 2014-05-05 11:07:22 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
3) More new content per year.

I'm not opposed to this in the least, but as an IT professional, I have to call into question how effective QA can be with this sort of time table. Let's be honest, CCP has trouble with game breaking bugs with just two major content releases a year. Firing off new content like a machinegun strikes me as being a bit foolhardy in that context.

Agreed, 10 releases per year is a bit tight. I'd suggest no more than 5 a year.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-05-05 15:04:03 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Will we be able to destroy existing gates in high sec? Because I would like that. Specifically, all the gates in Jita.



I think we have to assume that it will be "all things player build-able, will be destroyable".


Nothing else seems "workable" to me.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2014-05-05 15:05:33 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
3) More new content per year.

I'm not opposed to this in the least, but as an IT professional, I have to call into question how effective QA can be with this sort of time table. Let's be honest, CCP has trouble with game breaking bugs with just two major content releases a year. Firing off new content like a machinegun strikes me as being a bit foolhardy in that context.

Agreed, 10 releases per year is a bit tight. I'd suggest no more than 5 a year.



The vast majority are just going to be database updates, like tiericide. Alter the bonuses in the database. No real code change needed.

The big code change releases are still going to be 2 or 4 times a year. Nothing else is really workable.
SKINE DMZ
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2014-05-05 15:11:32 UTC
Regarding point 1.... the answer is concord Blink

I disagree
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#158 - 2014-05-05 15:19:59 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

3) More new content per year.

I'm not opposed to this in the least, but as an IT professional, I have to call into question how effective QA can be with this sort of time table. Let's be honest, CCP has trouble with game breaking bugs with just two major content releases a year. Firing off new content like a machinegun strikes me as being a bit foolhardy in that context.


This point exists because you don't understand what's happening. This isn't meant to be MORE new content per year, it's meant to be the same, with just a more dynamic landscape.

NTM EVE expansions aren't called "New Content" because rarely is there even new content. It's almost always refinement on content that exists.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2014-05-05 15:38:43 UTC
Kristalll wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

3) More new content per year.

I'm not opposed to this in the least, but as an IT professional, I have to call into question how effective QA can be with this sort of time table. Let's be honest, CCP has trouble with game breaking bugs with just two major content releases a year. Firing off new content like a machinegun strikes me as being a bit foolhardy in that context.


This point exists because you don't understand what's happening. This isn't meant to be MORE new content per year, it's meant to be the same, with just a more dynamic landscape.

NTM EVE expansions aren't called "New Content" because rarely is there even new content. It's almost always refinement on content that exists.



Exactly. Get the content to players sooner. Current: team works for a month re-balancing firgs... set that aside for relase 5 months form now. Then works on cruisers for a month... put that aside for release 5 months form now... then decides that the tracking enhsncer needs a nerf to its falloff bonus... set that aside for 3 months.... etc. Then, after 6 months, all rolls into production at one time.

Post change. Rebalance frigs for a month, ship it (update database during an extended downtime). Work on cruisers for a month, ship it. Look at specific modules for a month, ship it.....


Same content, just dropped in 5 small chunks instead of one large.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#160 - 2014-05-05 17:18:41 UTC
Kristalll wrote:

This point exists because you don't understand what's happening. This isn't meant to be MORE new content per year, it's meant to be the same, with just a more dynamic landscape.

NTM EVE expansions aren't called "New Content" because rarely is there even new content. It's almost always refinement on content that exists.



We'll wait and see on this, I missed this part of the keynote myself, and have the information second hand. I do think we're going to see a lot more 'new' content though, as well as revisions of the old, because CCP really wants to see it's subscriber base grow. Looking at concurrency numbers, people screaming about sub loss like Dinsdale are, sadly, probably right. It's not a big issue yet (I think they're over inflating the number at this time), but CCP are (and yes I use are because I'm speaking of the employees collectively) likely looking at ways to nip it in the bud, so to speak.

The other issue with this is there's really only so much refinement that can actually go on. CCP has a list that looks good for the next year or two, but the higher release rate means that bar massive coding failures, we're gonna see most of the 'refinement' they've talked about done in fairly short order, unless the releases are really, really small.

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Remember kids;
Its only real when its in the Patch NotesTM



No, it's real when it hits SISI. Talking about potential issues ahead of time though does save the inevitable shooting of the Jita statue.

Zappity wrote:

What is the source for this?


Fozzies thing at fanfest on how they're rebalancing freighters. So, granted, we're not yet talking about something set in stone, but he was specific about the number of rigs that would be required. 2 to get it where it is, and the extra one gives a bonus.