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Questions for CCP: Concerning the fallout from the Dust/Legion annouce

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Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2014-05-03 06:50:45 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:

Dust was "released" last year my friend. I played the beta as well.

In other news, Sony is doing refunds for AUR bought within the last few months, and I have heard of cases were they are doing a full refund for all dust related purchases over the years. I am going to call myself and see how that is going

The tears when people wake up to the fact that CCP responds to chargebacks with permabans will be glorious.

.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2014-05-03 06:57:21 UTC
I'm sure they'll all be so angry that they were permanently banned from a free game after they got their refund for everything else.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#123 - 2014-05-03 07:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
mkint wrote:
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


This. This is the truth.

Are you telling us you didn't enjoy playing it?

I bought Nuclear Dawn a long time ago, played it for 2 or 3 weeks, enjoyed the hell out of it, and then stopped playing. I don't even know why I stopped... it was so much fun. (Superior tactics beats superior numbers, even when the teams were at 2 vs 10+.) I spent the $ on the game, got my enjoyment out of it for a short time, and I feel like I got great value.

If you aren't enjoying dust, and feel like you've thrown away good money after bad... well, that's called a "sunk cost fallacy." Stop it. But if you're enjoying it for what it is, power to you. Keep at it. You even still have plenty of time to keep enjoying it for while it lasts.

What's more concerning is this... this announcement alone will cost CCP a whole ton of trust. If they closed down Dust today and said "ok, dust is done, it's legion from now on," I'd say screw that, not gonna touch that mess. But they still have time to handle the transition. They have a chance to do whatever basic playability bug fixes on dust, even if it's not going to be any new feature development. Hell, even any level design, balance tweaks, asset creation, all that will probably hit dust before legion is even launched. But, if they close dust and launch legion, and legion isn't the thing everybody's been dreaming about since the day everyone was disappointed with the "console only" announcement before everyone felt betrayed with the "sony only" announcement... well, then legion will be DOA as well.

As it stands, I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised if the old dust bunnies get huge huge huge advantages with the legion transition. And damn, you guys will have earned it.


The big selling point of dust was the potential and the promise of it. As a game in and of itself it is worse than nearly every other mainstream fps on the market.

I am not unsympathetic, to a degree.
But you do need to consider that most EVE players felt the same way when DUST was announced to be, at least initially, a PS3 exclusive. We griped, especially those that felt they were funding a game they could or would never play.

In this case however your money spent still serves you in a game that will continue to have work done to it to improve game play, if not add new content.... and that game will still be available to you for at least a year or so.

You may also be able to try a vastly upgraded version of that game with a spiffy transferred character... but if that is not possible at least you will be yards ahead of the rest of the pack when it comes to experience at playing the game.

To be perfectly honest it looks like the technical capabilities promised by Sony are not able to actually be realized in a practical way. CCP seems to have hit a hard limit in what the PS3 platform can actually deliver, and it falls far short of the game they intend to ultimately create. In other words, perhaps they were a bit too trusting.

I believe, when they took stock of the technical issues that just weren't going to ever be solved on the PS3, they cast their eyes on the PS4 and PC platform possibilities with wiser eyes. They had always intended for DUST to head in one or both of those directions eventually.... but now they had the practical experience to make the hard call that the PS4 just wasn't going to have the electronic balls to run the game they intend to create.

I can't find it in my heart to blame them, and it was probably a hard call to make.

On a realistic level, I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of DUST players don't already have at least a basic gaming PC at home as well. The price difference between a basic gaming PC (which also does so much more than a console) frankly isn't that big.

Obviously there will be exceptions, but truthfully there are worse things than finding out that your favorite free to play game ended up having about the same lifespan as most other console games in the end... and if they ever do decide to join the rest of us in this millennium and buy a decent computer at some point they will find a much better developed version of that game they loved waiting for them.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#124 - 2014-05-03 07:03:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Belt Scout
I have absolutely no pity for CCP over Dust. They asked for this reaming when they made Dust, and now they are getting it.

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

With a monthly sub, CCP can count on monthly income. When the game doesn't pan out for someone, just unsub. Whoever pitched the "Hey lets make a F2P game and put it on consoles :D" in a CCP board meeting needs to get a boot in their ass.

I'm going to call it now, so I can say I told you so later.

"Legion WILL FAIL exactly the same way Dust has if you do not drop this F2P/P2W bullshit and stick with what you know best." -- Belt Scout, 5/3/2014

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#125 - 2014-05-03 07:07:38 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:
I have absolutely no pity for CCP over Dust. They asked for this reaming, and now they are getting it.

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

With a monthly sub, CCP can count on monthly income. When the game doesn't pan out for someone, just unsub. Whoever pitched the "Hey lets make a F2P game and put it on consoles :D" in a CCP board meeting needs to get a boot in their ass.

I'm going to call it now, so I can say I told you so later.

"Legion WILL FAIL exactly the same way Dust has if you do not drop this F2P/P2W bullshit and stick with what you know best." -- Belt Scout, 5/3/2014

.

Your post might have merit if you weren't so painfully confused about what Free to Play is as opposed to Pay to Win.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#126 - 2014-05-03 07:11:36 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
I have absolutely no pity for CCP over Dust. They asked for this reaming, and now they are getting it.

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

With a monthly sub, CCP can count on monthly income. When the game doesn't pan out for someone, just unsub. Whoever pitched the "Hey lets make a F2P game and put it on consoles :D" in a CCP board meeting needs to get a boot in their ass.

I'm going to call it now, so I can say I told you so later.

"Legion WILL FAIL exactly the same way Dust has if you do not drop this F2P/P2W bullshit and stick with what you know best." -- Belt Scout, 5/3/2014

.

Your post might have merit if you weren't so painfully confused about what Free to Play is as opposed to Pay to Win.


Then explain to me how Dust isn't pay to win. People can buy stuff with real money that gives them an edge over someone that doesn't.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2014-05-03 07:12:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I'm sure they'll all be so angry that they were permanently banned from a free game after they got their refund for everything else.

No refunds for their time investment and that is what most actually seem to be crying about.

At the end of the day Legion is by all appearances still 1-2 years off, DUST will probably continue running beyond the launch of Legion and I'd be very surprised if CCP didn't give DUST players some kind of veteran reward in Legion (special skinned dropsuit or w/e).

Just give it 2-3 weeks and they'll come crawling back.

.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2014-05-03 07:28:17 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

I am not unsympathetic, to a degree.
But you do need to consider that most EVE players felt the same way when DUST was announced to be, at least initially, a PS3 exclusive. We griped, especially those that felt they were funding a game they could or would never play.

In this case however your money spent still serves you in a game that will continue to have work done to it to improve game play, if not add new content.... and that game will still be available to you for at least a year or so.

A big part of the fury that fanfest caused is that there WAS NOTHING for dust itself, just more promises of what it might be some day (So long as you have a PC*). Dust has been on life support since launch last year and Fanfest was that one last thing that gave us hope for the game.

Quote:

You may also be able to try a vastly upgraded version of that game with a spiffy transferred character... but if that is not possible at least you will be yards ahead of the rest of the pack when it comes to experience at playing the game.

Another element is the uncertainty of transfer. A lot of us have put a lot of time/effort/aurum in to dust. To be uncertain about the ability to transfer at the time of announce was a big mistake. The community felt betrayed by this. The general feeling is that we beta tested the concept for a game so that eve players could reap the rewards. I strongly doubt that there are any real technical reasons why SP/ISK can't be transferred, and I have seen a lot of people play down the legal aspect as well. I see no issue with dust mercs starting the game with more SP than the new players. As a new player to eve myself, I have had to deal with a similar situation every day... Not a big deal. But having to start over on a different platform, without most of your friends, in a game that you helped create? Pretty big deal. And yes, we did help create it. However ****** a game it might still be, the dust community has steered CCP in the right direction more times than not. One thing I will give them, is that if you ***** long enough and loud enough, they usual listen.

Quote:

To be perfectly honest it looks like the technical capabilities promised by Sony are not able to actually be realized in a practical way. CCP seems to have hit a hard limit in what the PS3 platform can actually deliver, and it falls far short of the game they intend to ultimately create. In other words, perhaps they were a bit too trusting.

I believe, when they took stock of the technical issues that just weren't going to ever be solved on the PS3, they cast their eyes on the PS4 and PC platform possibilities with wiser eyes. They had always intended for DUST to head in one or both of those directions eventually.... but now they had the practical experience to make the hard call that the PS4 just wasn't going to have the electronic balls to run the game they intend to create.

It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint to switch to the PC/PS4. The dust community REALLY hopes that there is a PS4 port, it will be one of the things that might save the community. The biggest problem with the game however, stems from the bugs and issues that CCP kept letting into the game. There were a number of bugs that just kept finding their way back into the game every other patch, as well as balance issues.

Quote:

I can't find it in my heart to blame them, and it was probably a hard call to make.

On a realistic level, I have a hard time believing that the vast majority of DUST players don't already have at least a basic gaming PC at home as well. The price difference between a basic gaming PC (which also does so much more than a console) frankly isn't that big.

The world is changing my friend. People are more likely to have a phone/tablet/netbook as their primary computer than ever before, and this trend isn't reversing.
Quote:

Obviously there will be exceptions, but truthfully there are worse things than finding out that your favorite free to play game ended up having about the same lifespan as most other console games in the end... and if they ever do decide to join the rest of us in this millennium and buy a decent computer at some point they will find a much better developed version of that game they loved waiting for them.

None of us loved dust. We loved the IDEA of dust. We loved the community of dust. The actual game we got was accused of still being in beta from the start and with recent developments that accusation doesn't seem too far off base. I chuckle at the people who are arguing that we will still have dust while LEGION is developed. CCP had enough trouble developing ONE fps. I don't think there is a dustie that was still playing yesterday that thinks they can do two.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#129 - 2014-05-03 07:28:44 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

I'd +1 a sub. Initial registration cost then drop in a ~$10/m sub onto it. If you have an active EVE account, sub cost is included; if your EVE account is active then your linked Legion account is active too - flat rate. Disqualify PLEX from the active EVE sub and PLEX prices may drop some too - or they just pay the ~$10 if they want to keep PLEXing their EVE account. Yeah, P2W keeps me from many current games.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2014-05-03 07:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Fiddlestax Atruin
Belt Scout wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
I have absolutely no pity for CCP over Dust. They asked for this reaming, and now they are getting it.

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

With a monthly sub, CCP can count on monthly income. When the game doesn't pan out for someone, just unsub. Whoever pitched the "Hey lets make a F2P game and put it on consoles :D" in a CCP board meeting needs to get a boot in their ass.

I'm going to call it now, so I can say I told you so later.

"Legion WILL FAIL exactly the same way Dust has if you do not drop this F2P/P2W bullshit and stick with what you know best." -- Belt Scout, 5/3/2014

.

Your post might have merit if you weren't so painfully confused about what Free to Play is as opposed to Pay to Win.


Then explain to me how Dust isn't pay to win. People can buy stuff with real money that gives them an edge over someone that doesn't.

Dust monetization works a lot like PLEX. You essentially trade your real life cash, for getting benefits that you would get if you had more time to play DUST. Besides a few bugged items (that had better stats than they should have), there was nothing in dust that you couldn't get by playing the game more. There is no problem with their monetization scheme at base. The problem with it, is that they continued to sell SP booster items, while they knew that a large portion of their playerbase wouldn't reap the rewards that skill points provide. SP is essentially a LONG TERM investment, while the game's life cycle is in question right now. They gave us no timeline on LEGION release, and no guarantee on how long dust will be supported. All the while, the community is threatening to mass quit because of these unknown variables. If they don't do something to alleviate the dust community's fears, there wont be anyone to play with either way.
Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-05-03 07:37:15 UTC
Dalloway Jones wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
CCP made an aurum event right before they made this announcement, knowing full well that some of the players of dust will not be able to make the move from PS3 to PC. If that isn't a cash grab, I don't know what is.

The event gave long term SP rewards, at the cost of real money. Long term rewards that some players will never see.

If dust was a legion beta, they needed to be straightforward with their customers.

I hope there will be no Microtransaction, Aurum events and such sh.it in Legion. Solid FPS with a deep connection to EVE. Free for EVE subs. One billion percent success!

Edit: Maybe add three new character slots for Legion Chars to EVE accounts for people that play Legion.


So you want the game to be free with no microtransactions? Who do you think is going to pay for it? The game fairy?


Probably the EVE players. Why not? We've paid for all of their other failed projects.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#132 - 2014-05-03 07:39:38 UTC
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


If you say it's been garbage, why have you played it for a year?

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2014-05-03 07:45:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Fiddlestax Atruin
Drago Shouna wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Dust 514 has been one failure and mistake after the next. They absolutely needed to rebrand it, and get off the PS3.

But if the same team is working on it, Legion will be a failure too.
I wouldn't expect the pessimism expressed here to be understood by the players of the modern eve... You would have to have actually played dust for the last year to truly understand it.

It is garbage. They reintroduce the same old bugs, and balance issues with every new patch. The only reason any of the dusties play it, is the promises CCP made for it, and the community that built up around those promises.


If you say it's been garbage, why have you played it for a year?

I'll restate something I've said something a few times in this thread.

Dust players HATE dust. It is a laggy, bug ridden game with poor FPS mechanics.
Dust players LOVE the idea of dust. There are some good ideas for a strategic game in there and we loved the idea that we would somehow connect into the greater EVE universe. We loved what was to come for the game, and held on to hope (Until today, for the most part) that it might someday be like that. With nothing new for dust announced at fanfest and the debacle that was the announcement of legion, that hope is gone.

We also love our dust community; there are a lot of hard goodbyes starting to be exchanged currently.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#134 - 2014-05-03 07:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Anyway, that's what SOE does with subs, it's just flat rate for all games. Just I'd set EVE as the hierarchy, the $15/mo then includes Legion from your EVE sub, not the reverse to sub Legion and get EVE included. That way CCP still generates money with Legion, and maybe even more growth with EVE. Then those that don't want to sub EVE but play Legion just pay the ~$10/mo for Legion alone. Then they could always do a limited f2p like Quake Live does and run it along with the sub plan. I don't see any industry standard that requires p2w.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#135 - 2014-05-03 07:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
I have absolutely no pity for CCP over Dust. They asked for this reaming, and now they are getting it.

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

With a monthly sub, CCP can count on monthly income. When the game doesn't pan out for someone, just unsub. Whoever pitched the "Hey lets make a F2P game and put it on consoles :D" in a CCP board meeting needs to get a boot in their ass.

I'm going to call it now, so I can say I told you so later.

"Legion WILL FAIL exactly the same way Dust has if you do not drop this F2P/P2W bullshit and stick with what you know best." -- Belt Scout, 5/3/2014

.

Your post might have merit if you weren't so painfully confused about what Free to Play is as opposed to Pay to Win.


Then explain to me how Dust isn't pay to win. People can buy stuff with real money that gives them an edge over someone that doesn't.

Dust monetization works a lot like PLEX. You essentially trade your real life cash, for getting benefits that you would get if you had more time to play DUST. Besides a few bugged items (that had better stats than they should have), there was nothing in dust that you couldn't get by playing the game more. There is no problem with their monetization scheme at base. The problem with it, is that they continued to sell SP booster items, while they knew that a large portion of their playerbase wouldn't reap the rewards that skill points provide. SP is essentially a LONG TERM investment, while the game's life cycle is in question right now. They gave us no timeline on LEGION release, and no guarantee on how long dust will be supported. All the while, the community is threatening to mass quit because of these unknown variables. If they don't do something to alleviate the dust community's fears, there wont be anyone to play with either way.

I will readily agree with you that they need to quickly come up with some realistic information as to what will be done to fix bugs/stream line game play for the rest of DUSTS life, and give a reasonable expectation on how long that support will last. Otherwise exactly what you stated will occur (and that would be very unfortunate all the way around).

Thanks for explaining the pay to win myth to the other poster. Books on the subject have been written on these forums years ago and I didn't relish the idea of putting that baby to bed all over again.

As to people not owning an actual computer as much any more... well... I'm more inclined to say that younger people tend to prefer more portable solutions such as a phone or tablet (unless they are a gamer). But we are discussing people that are pretty into gaming, and to be honest Legion will likely draw an older crowd (especially if it's ties to EVE are more developed) that depends more heavily on having a decent computer at home for both work and play (and shopping, and banking, and bill paying, and all the other things that are easier and more secure to do on a computer than a phone or tablet).

I'm not dismissing your point out of hand, and certainly not trying to cast younger gamers in a bad light, but I honestly don't know a single adult under the age of 70 that doesn't have a computer at home.

In fact, I work at a fairly large university, and even among the students it's extremely unusual for them not to have a computer in addition to their phone and (becoming more common) a tablet to take to class. While the phone and tablet are nice and portable, they aren't nearly as useful for many things (especially researching, typing papers, or taking online tests on).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Scifi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#136 - 2014-05-03 07:59:40 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
i understood that chars will be ported to new game possibly with skill points and or some kind of compensation what exactly is a problem here?

ps3 belong to history as in time that past away,they didn't release dust as beta for legion 2 years ago they just realized they failed and moved on.

ftp shooter went bad big whoop.


While porting the char over to the PC version is fine and good, in my corp only 1 out of the 25 or so dust players has a PC capable of playing Eve let alone having whatever specs Legion will require when it comes out. These people are console gamers, if it's not on a console they're not gaming on it. I'm certain that if you ask around you'll find many many corps that have similar numbers.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2014-05-03 08:04:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Fiddlestax Atruin wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
I have absolutely no pity for CCP over Dust. They asked for this reaming, and now they are getting it.

F2P (aka P2W) games always turn into a shitstorm when people realize they aren't getting what their spending cash for. CCP should have stuck to what they know best. They should have made Dust a subscription based service with the ability buy game time with ingame funds as well. The PLEX system works very well in EvE for players that have more time than money. For players that have less time to play, then here's my hundred bucks for the year.

With a monthly sub, CCP can count on monthly income. When the game doesn't pan out for someone, just unsub. Whoever pitched the "Hey lets make a F2P game and put it on consoles :D" in a CCP board meeting needs to get a boot in their ass.

I'm going to call it now, so I can say I told you so later.

"Legion WILL FAIL exactly the same way Dust has if you do not drop this F2P/P2W bullshit and stick with what you know best." -- Belt Scout, 5/3/2014

.

Your post might have merit if you weren't so painfully confused about what Free to Play is as opposed to Pay to Win.


Then explain to me how Dust isn't pay to win. People can buy stuff with real money that gives them an edge over someone that doesn't.

Dust monetization works a lot like PLEX. You essentially trade your real life cash, for getting benefits that you would get if you had more time to play DUST. Besides a few bugged items (that had better stats than they should have), there was nothing in dust that you couldn't get by playing the game more. There is no problem with their monetization scheme at base. The problem with it, is that they continued to sell SP booster items, while they knew that a large portion of their playerbase wouldn't reap the rewards that skill points provide. SP is essentially a LONG TERM investment, while the game's life cycle is in question right now. They gave us no timeline on LEGION release, and no guarantee on how long dust will be supported. All the while, the community is threatening to mass quit because of these unknown variables. If they don't do something to alleviate the dust community's fears, there wont be anyone to play with either way.

I will readily agree with you that they need to quickly come up with some realistic information as to what will be done to fix bugs/stream line game play for the rest of DUSTS life, and give a reasonable expectation on how long that support will last. Otherwise exactly what you stated will occur (and that would be very unfortunate all the way around).

Thanks for explaining the pay to win myth to the other poster. Books on the subject have been written on these forums years ago and I didn't relish the idea of putting that baby to bed all over again.

As to people not owning an actual computer as much any more... well... I'm more inclined to say that younger people tend to prefer more portable solutions such as a phone or tablet (unless they are a gamer). But we are discussing people that are pretty into gaming, and to be honest Legion will likely draw an older crowd (especially if it's ties to EVE are more developed) that depends more heavily on having a decent computer at home for both work and play (and shopping, and banking, and bill paying, and all the other things that are easier and more secure to do on a computer than a phone or tablet).

I'm not dismissing your point out of hand, and certainly not trying to cast younger gamers in a bad light, but I honestly don't know a single adult under the age of 70 that doesn't have a computer at home.


I suppose I am the younger crowd(25) that you refer to, or was anyway. For a few years, I used my phone as my primary computer. It did internet searches, and that was enough. I picked up a laptop, because I needed to. I started playing EVE because they made some awful changes to dust that made my play style obsolete, and my guys needed a pilot to drop orbital strikes. I discovered a game that was much better and more polished than dust, and have been "that eve guy" ever since.

A lot of the guys I have talked to don't have a gaming PC. It isn't just about HAVING a PC. It is about having a PC that they can consistently play on without getting in their wives, children, or parent's way. A PC that is at a desk with enough space to play a FPS at a competitive level. A lot of them don't have that, and while I can run two accounts in EVE, im not sure that my computer will handle dust. That is part of the uncertainty that grips the dust community currently.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#138 - 2014-05-03 08:06:48 UTC
Scifi wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
i understood that chars will be ported to new game possibly with skill points and or some kind of compensation what exactly is a problem here?

ps3 belong to history as in time that past away,they didn't release dust as beta for legion 2 years ago they just realized they failed and moved on.

ftp shooter went bad big whoop.


While porting the char over to the PC version is fine and good, in my corp only 1 out of the 25 or so dust players has a PC capable of playing Eve let alone having whatever specs Legion will require when it comes out. These people are console gamers, if it's not on a console they're not gaming on it. I'm certain that if you ask around you'll find many many corps that have similar numbers.

You can purchase a computer capable of playing EVE for far, far less than what a console will cost... so, no offense, but I'm going to have to say "Citation needed".

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Fiddlestax Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2014-05-03 08:11:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Scifi wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
i understood that chars will be ported to new game possibly with skill points and or some kind of compensation what exactly is a problem here?

ps3 belong to history as in time that past away,they didn't release dust as beta for legion 2 years ago they just realized they failed and moved on.

ftp shooter went bad big whoop.


While porting the char over to the PC version is fine and good, in my corp only 1 out of the 25 or so dust players has a PC capable of playing Eve let alone having whatever specs Legion will require when it comes out. These people are console gamers, if it's not on a console they're not gaming on it. I'm certain that if you ask around you'll find many many corps that have similar numbers.

You can purchase a computer capable of playing EVE for far, far less than what a console will cost... so, no offense, but I'm going to have to say "Citation needed".

There are other elements at play here. There has been a shift in the gaming industry, and there are a great many titles that are available on the consoles. Some people even play different games (Dust is solo only) with other people with them in the same room. Some people enjoy relaxing on a couch while playing games. Most have computers(or phones, or tablets) that are perfectly capable of doing most of the things that people get computers for, but are not capable of playing a modern FPS. The choice comes down to if they should get a PS4 for all the conveniences and abilities that provides you OR get a PC for just LEGION, and further support a company that most of the DUST players feel has abandoned/betrayed them.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#140 - 2014-05-03 08:13:25 UTC
Fiddle, I'll agree that in an ideal world they would evolve DUST into something that will play equally well on both PC and on a PS4.

However if it's a choice between developing the game we all want to see, or remaining limited because you want to keep it on the PS3 / PS4 also, I'm sorry but I going to have to support their decision.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.