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Dev blog: Fortune Favors the Bold

First post First post
Author
Bob Billyson
Tayto Truck
#161 - 2014-05-05 08:30:21 UTC
This ship is much amaze, so good.

And partially the reason they're making the ABC's better is to give more of a reason to mine in Null-sec. It's really to do with a risk vs reward thing. In null, if you are able to buy minerals from a local supplier, that's fine, but when dealing with the completely massive amounts of minerals you need to make capitals and super-caps, you NEED to import. What they're trying to change is make Null slightly less reliant on high-sec through several means.

1 Increase the ore yield of the belts to make it more worth-while to mine. I don't know the exact figures, but I believe that simply ratting is currently more isk per hour than mining, especially if you factor in the risks of doing so. (mining ships can't really defend themselves, interceptors, etc).
2 Increasing the cost of jump drive consumption making it more expensive to import minerals from high-sec.
3 Removing compression via modules and forcing it onto compressed ore.

What this new mining frigate will do, is make it easy for gas miners, particularly the ones out to make drugs to enter the various area's of null, get their gas, and then get out without being caught. In null, even if you have a warp stabbed ship, they don't mean anything in the face of a bubble, but if you have a cov ops cloak.. bubbles don't mean a damn thing, all you need to worry about is how many frigs and dessies they have sitting around the gate, dodge them, and then be on your merry way.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#162 - 2014-05-05 09:31:23 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
fw plexing (still) needs attention but i feel that shouldn't stop us getting a new spaceship that's unlikely to affect plexing meta in any meaningful way


The bolded part is where we disagree then; I see this ship as having a much more meaningful impact than you seem to suppose.

okay. but i still feel it's better to ask for plexing fixes than ask for a mining ship of all things to be balanced around plexing meta

we have a whole new set of csms to write angry letters at
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#163 - 2014-05-05 09:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Personally, I hope this new ship gets used by every plexer and eventually the neuts that thrive on FW kills will get bored and go elsewhere.
Then and only then might FW become about FW and not neutrals killboard stats and plexing for isk.

2 Militias facing off to fight for a system would be worth being involved in.

Oh, you poor thing! Did the nasty neutrals kill you? Maybe CCP should move FW to highsec. Would that suit? Because that is effectively what you are asking for.

I was going to write that I now feel bad about killing FW farmers in lowsec. But I didn't want to lie, even on this forum.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#164 - 2014-05-05 09:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Benny Ohu wrote:
Janden Rynd wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
fw plexing (still) needs attention but i feel that shouldn't stop us getting a new spaceship that's unlikely to affect plexing meta in any meaningful way


The bolded part is where we disagree then; I see this ship as having a much more meaningful impact than you seem to suppose.

okay. but i still feel it's better to ask for plexing fixes than ask for a mining ship of all things to be balanced around plexing meta

we have a whole new set of csms to write angry letters at


This entire idea of FW-farmers using the Prospect is ridiculous. Just for that one warp-core stab more? I'm pretty sure there aren't that many cases where a hunter can bring the 4 points needed to overcome a stability of +3. And if you suddenly remember that a covert-ops ship doesn't really need a stab (since only bad, bad pilots keep getting caught when they can dictate every engagement), you get even more ships.

Hell, if someone really is that determined to evade PVP-people, all cov-ops frigate except the Buzzard have 3 lows to taint them with stabs. Which is enough, really. The Astero can even have 4 stabs and has a drone bonus, as has the Helios.

That's two ships you can even farm offensive plexes with. The weaponless Prospect on the other hand could only do defensive plexes, which is as sensible as using a stealth bomber to mine.
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2014-05-05 11:54:42 UTC
mkint wrote:
Still considering if the drones makes a difference... it can tank nullsec belt rats,


Actually this is going to hurt it, some NPCs angels and serps for example, warp scram and web you....
So if you get tackled in a belt by one your pritty fooked at that point especialy if someone comes into system where you happen to be at the time
Nlex
Domini Canium
#166 - 2014-05-05 12:37:35 UTC
Bob Billyson wrote:
you NEED to import

Just as Highsec needs to import all those hi end minerals that are impossible to get in 0.5+
Quote:
What they're trying to change is make Null slightly less reliant on high-sec through several means

To what end? So far, no region of space is independent, all require moving of goods and trade. What good thing can come from singling out null as sole self-sufficient region?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2014-05-05 12:42:05 UTC
Nlex wrote:
Bob Billyson wrote:
you NEED to import

Just as Highsec needs to import all those hi end minerals that are impossible to get in 0.5+
Quote:
What they're trying to change is make Null slightly less reliant on high-sec through several means

To what end? So far, no region of space is independent, all require moving of goods and trade. What good thing can come from singling out null as sole self-sufficient region?


Exactly my point ,they should be making the regions more interdependent to increase traffic, not making one area better in every way and also non-reliant on other areas.
Von Keigai
#168 - 2014-05-05 14:45:26 UTC
I am a wspace resident. I currently mine gas in Ventures. This is mostly in my own system, but occasionally in nearby systems.

I don't think I will use the Prospect much.

Why? Because it does not mine gas any faster than a Venture.

Most of the time I mine gas in my own system, zipped-up. I don't need stealth. And similarly, in my own system a trip to my POS to dump gas is fast, compared to the half hour or so it takes to fill up. So, the Prospect does not do much for me there, either. Except that it is more costly. I might use it if I already had the skill, but I am certainly not going to skill up for it.

Occasionally I ninja into C5/6 to grab C320 or C540. In this case, I usually have not killed the sleepers. So I can mine for 20 minutes, maximum, before they show up and force me out of the site. 20 minutes of mining gas will fill a Venture to about half full. Even with a fleet booster, it does not fill up. Now, a covert ops cloak would definitely be nice for getting there. I might rarely undertake mining expeditions that I would not otherwise. And very rarely there is a core gas site which I can get a corp fleet to, to kill the sleepers and suck out fully. A Prospect would be better there because of the ore bay size. But again, that is very rare.

I'd like to suggest that the Prospect be made superior to the Venture in mining gas. This does not have to be a lot superior; just a little bit would do. Then I would want them, and they would add substantial value to all of my mining. I suggest adding -1% Gas Harvester duration as an Expedition Frigate Bonus per level.

Having read the thread through, I see numerous responses from wspace people who seem to feel the same.

vonkeigai.blogspot.com

Virgil McMacset
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2014-05-05 15:22:14 UTC
I like the idea in concept, but would like to suggest consider making the Prospect being able to actually hoover gas in 0.0 without blowing up all the time.
As the gas cloud explosions hit out to 100Km in Null, and can take the Venture in 2 shots.The EHP on this is still too low as it stands.
Same with the Venture when utilised in such a role, and needs to be addressed, or the explosion mechanic changed so the ship can tank the gas cloud damage out there?
So we got a purpose built gas harvesters neat now we have its cloaky counterpart, but why aren't we seeing a ship that can actually achieve what it's purpose is intended for?
More tank, or fix the damage profile on null sec clouds, then it has my vote as an Outer Ring Excavations Design.
Von Keigai
#170 - 2014-05-05 20:26:04 UTC
Virgil McMacset wrote:
consider making the Prospect being able to actually hoover gas in 0.0 without blowing up all the time.

The Prospect should be able to tank null gas cloud explosions pretty well. Ventures can do it now, if not with much margin for error, and with serious tradeoffs. (I.e.: you really want to use at least one rig slot for scanning to find the sites. Or have a scanning alt.)

The Prospect should be much better than the Venture, because it can refit via mobile depot, and has more low slots. The refit means it can fit scanning parts for scanning bonuses, and fit lots of WCS for travel. Only when you have a scanned-down gas cloud and a safe system do you refit into your mining fit.

Armor does well against thermal/em by default, and with four low slots you can have an armor repairer, a DCII, a plate, and one hardener. Rigs offer more tank. The midslots have cap rechargers to run the armor repairer cap-stable. I am estimating (playing with EFT) that an armor buffer of about 10000 EHP will be possible vs Sanshas (they do EM/Thermal, like gas clouds). It might be more depending on the hardness of the armor. The active tank will be about 70 DPS. Both numbers will be better if the ship has improved armor hardness over the Venture.

It also looks like you can make an active shield tank plus buffer, using the lows for capacitor and the mids for hardness and buffer. This does not look it will work quite as well to me, but I think it would be sufficient. It might be better depending on the shield/armor hardness.

vonkeigai.blogspot.com

Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#171 - 2014-05-05 21:15:05 UTC
This new ship is better at tackling mining ships than it is at mining.but that is also more in line with what ccp have been doing for the past 2 years,as a mining ship it cant cost mutch more than twice of the wenture and thats not going to hapen,it will cost more then a retriver,but mine less and smaller ore hold.in may opinion 2 of the mining barg will be better to juse than this ship if it cost 10m+.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#172 - 2014-05-06 07:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
wuld be much more fun is new t2 venture get bit better mining per hour.

insted if 100% give him 110%-125% mining bonus or some thing to make people use it more likely than venture.

i guess it would not hurt if you give him eaven 200% bonus and 20k ore cargo, so it would be actualy worth it to go into null sec/low sec to run mining in systems with no stations etc.

to make it real stelth miner!!



still looks very coolBlink
Kaius Fero
#173 - 2014-05-06 07:58:43 UTC
I love this ship, but it's nothing more than a pvp lolship.... I can already see whole fleets of BNI-RvB pilots using it.

But for ninja mining in null? It's just harder and harder to understand the devs.. I really wanna see Fozzie coming down from Polaris and making a demo on how to ninja mine with a Prospect in any random null sec on TQ. I'm sure that after a couple of hours he will not laugh anymore as he is used to do when he have.. ideas. Run down to a null sec system, fill the ore bay.. then what? Sell the ore to local, run back in hi sec to refine it, how exactly he imagined this will work and will be more lucrative than mining in a barge or exhumer in a secure space? Why should any sane and sober miner use the Prospect?

But again, the ship is fun .. it will be the best pvp lolship evah!

Anselmo & The Illegals

Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#174 - 2014-05-06 09:39:10 UTC
Captain Lorth Needa - "No ship that small has a cloaking deviceā€¦" Cool

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Micheal York Solette
PathFinder's Initiative
#175 - 2014-05-06 17:12:26 UTC
Alright Guy's and Gal's

I did a little working it out if I figured this right you should be able to fit it this way

High

Miner II x2
Covert Op Cloak

Mid
Invulnerable II
Medium Shield Extender II
Afterburner

Low
DC II
Mining Upgrade II x3

Rigs
EM Shield
Thermal Shield

That will burn a lot of Ore

Ice Dealer
Ice Dealer Corporation
#176 - 2014-05-06 20:39:52 UTC
I see a lot of raging people.
I agree, CCP could make roles unique. And this plus that would be "better".

What if ccp's plan is actually to make several.

This one is cloak ore ninja.
The next one could be a beefy tanked gas miner.
The next one could be that mines ice, but refines as it mines.
With CCP creating a 'ship cclass ' it opens it up to maybe more types.

I guess that CCP did that with the noctis, but never took it further.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#177 - 2014-05-06 21:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Micheal York Solette wrote:
Alright Guy's and Gal's

I did a little working it out if I figured this right you should be able to fit it this way

High

Miner II x2
Covert Op Cloak

Mid
Invulnerable II
Medium Shield Extender II
Afterburner

Low
DC II
Mining Upgrade II x3

Rigs
EM Shield
Thermal Shield

That will burn a lot of Ore


You can get the AB II on it with maximum skill in mining upgrades. And just under 800m3/min yield.
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#178 - 2014-05-06 22:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeera Tomb-Raider
Kaius Fero wrote:
I love this ship, but it's nothing more than a pvp lolship.... I can already see whole fleets of BNI-RvB pilots using it.

But for ninja mining in null? It's just harder and harder to understand the devs.. I really wanna see Fozzie coming down from Polaris and making a demo on how to ninja mine with a Prospect in any random null sec on TQ. I'm sure that after a couple of hours he will not laugh anymore as he is used to do when he have.. ideas. Run down to a null sec system, fill the ore bay.. then what? Sell the ore to local, run back in hi sec to refine it, how exactly he imagined this will work and will be more lucrative than mining in a barge or exhumer in a secure space? Why should any sane and sober miner use the Prospect?

But again, the ship is fun .. it will be the best pvp lolship evah!

Hi will think your brave thats all.and thers a fine line betwine brave and stupid.but think they got it rigth on the stupid part.And in sted of "brave" you kan be smart.join a player corp with Orca boost.
Megan DeMonet
Direct Action.
The Lounge Lizards
#179 - 2014-05-07 00:48:12 UTC
no wonder no one remembers how to get back to where they came from. They were to stupid to even setup their nations in an area where the resources they needed were abundant.

1st guy through into the eve verse "hey, let get the hell out of here, this is lowsec."
2nd guy through the hole. "man this **** is scary"
guy sleeping in his bunk "hey baby......."
1st guys wife "what a dumbass, he knows we are the only ones here. just look at local."

A Priest, a Rabbi, and an Imam walk into a bar......

Odoya
Aeon Abraxas
#180 - 2014-05-07 01:14:19 UTC
A mining ship that can use a covert ops cloak sounds like a bad idea because it seems to lack parity. Why not a covert ops cloakey POS too? Why not just fix the unstated problems with mining and leave the basic ship balance in place?