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T3 Subsystem rebalance! It's coming!!!

Author
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-05-01 17:04:58 UTC
If anyone caught the stream earlier, fozzie stated that we are finally getting a balance wave for some of the T3 subsystem that are currently unused.

Anyone else excited? T3s have been my favourite ship addition since their introduction. This deserves a discussion thread!

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 

Apollo Purvon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-05-01 17:06:36 UTC
This is obviously an attempt to manipulate the market for this guy's own profit.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#3 - 2014-05-01 17:09:53 UTC
T3 rebalancing has been on the to do list for a while. It was merely pushed down the line until T1, T2 and faction rebalance was done. That being mostly done, T3s are next. And boy will there be tears. Better stock up on Station Warehouses to collect them.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-05-01 17:09:54 UTC
I'm pretty excited myself. Changes to T3's could bring some interesting new gameplay.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-05-01 17:11:37 UTC
Gonna be awesome isn't it? They should be ship-of-the-line for big alliance subcaps, expensive, lethal but all thats really worth using at the moment are the niche point proteus and webbing loki. I guess you get the odd slippery pete tengu but damn I want a reason to fly more of em

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 

Apollo Purvon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-05-01 17:16:55 UTC
I feel like you're holding a lot of isk in little-used subsystems and you want us to buy them so the value of your investment goes up. I feel like you're trying to use us.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#7 - 2014-05-01 17:30:10 UTC
We all know that the T3's are about to be nerfed in oblivion.
The geniuses in charge feel that T3's should be jack of all trades, master of none.
And we all know how well that works in the Eve universe.

I have a Loki and Proteus, both of which I have loved flying.
Proteus was a mini-marauder mission / low sec boat (have not flown it since the first Omni nerf made it useless), and the Loki was a low sec exploration boat (was out cruising this morning in it).

Both ships will have no use whatsoever after fozzie is done "loving them".

Not that it matters in the overall scheme of things.
High sec missions and incursions will be obliterated next (just like high sec / low sec industry just was), so the majority of the player base won't have an opportunity to use them anyway.

That is, until they submit to the yoke of the cartels.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#8 - 2014-05-01 17:31:10 UTC
Thank god, finally. Here is to hoping the Legion covert subsystem gets an at least small damage bonus. (I have several PVP-fittings I want to try, but I can either get anemic damage or a paper-thin tank with slightly less anemic damage on my cloaky Legion. That's no fun.)
Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-05-01 17:56:25 UTC
There's loads of stuff that 'jack of all trades' is great for if done right, look at the stratios. Especially now we have mobile depots for refitting. T3's better subsystems will need a little nerf of course, but if they could re-fit on the fly like a carrier they would see plenty more uses. They would go from being basically HACs to allowing some of the different playstyles fozzie was talking about.

Imagine a squad of cloaky nullified tengus that could refit on the fly depending on the situation. They would never be as good at any role as a dedicated T2 variant but they could adapt to any battlefield scenario making versatility a credible choice.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#10 - 2014-05-01 18:02:44 UTC
Seith Kali wrote:
There's loads of stuff that 'jack of all trades' is great for if done right, look at the stratios. Especially now we have mobile depots for refitting. T3's better subsystems will need a little nerf of course, but if they could re-fit on the fly like a carrier they would see plenty more uses. They would go from being basically HACs to allowing some of the different playstyles fozzie was talking about.

Imagine a squad of cloaky nullified tengus that could refit on the fly depending on the situation. They would never be as good at any role as a dedicated T2 variant but they could adapt to any battlefield scenario making versatility a credible choice.


I already do this with mobile depots. The trouble is of course, even with just three spare subsystems and a depot I'm already running out of cargo space.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#11 - 2014-05-01 18:11:56 UTC
I hope the Laser Legion is competitive after the T3 balancing. It sucks so hard atm Sad

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-05-01 18:34:16 UTC
So much work needs to be done, there are useless subs, and sub system combinations that need help due to terrible slot layout after they are combined.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-05-01 18:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Here's what I project will happen:

-Defensive subs, excepting the adaptives, will get their resists knocked down to force recon level. 10% rep bonuses will get knocked down to 7.5%, if nerfs aren't too hard, they might get something nice added like cap usage bonuses for reps.

-Offensive subs will get nerfed slightly; you'll see 7.5% bonuses get knocked down to 5%. Higher damage modifiers might be used to compensate, specifically on the Tengu. Loki will get its split weapons system either changed to a straight missile one with an explosive damage equivalent of the Tengu, or keep the split but have more gun and missile slots to balance better. Legion will likely get a range bonus added for its missiles, and keep the current lackluster missile dps.

-Electronic mods will be interesting. It is entirely likely that they will swap the cloak subsystem from offensive over to electronic, namely rolling it into the locus analyzer sub. Short of this, they will either move around or change the cloaky offensive sub, i.e. amarr and gallente getting their cloak sub getting moved over to drones, and improve the original subs with tracking speed and/or firing rate bonuses. I can see certain subs like the dissolution sequencer and locus analyzer subs along with the ewar ones getting a heavy nerf. Legion neuts will likely see a decent buff.

-Propulsion subs will likely get a slight buff. Subs that increase ab speed will see a decent increase, and mwd subs that help with sig and cap will also see a buff. Grav capacitor rigs might be changed somewhat into focusing a little more on travel time, and nullifiers will stay the same.

-Engineering subs will either be left alone apart from slight numerical tweaks, or have their secondary combat effects removed.


These changes will result in the ships generally having less power than equivalent t2 hacs for their offensive and defensive purposes, less ewar usability than recon, but will perform in a wider capacity than either of them ever possibly could. They just won't have stupidly large tanks
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-05-01 19:10:13 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Here's what I project will happen:

-Defensive subs, excepting the adaptives, will get their resists knocked down to force recon level. 10% rep bonuses will get knocked down to 7.5%, if nerfs aren't too hard, they might get something nice added like cap usage bonuses for reps.

-Offensive subs will get nerfed slightly; you'll see 7.5% bonuses get knocked down to 5%. Higher damage modifiers might be used to compensate, specifically on the Tengu. Loki will get its split weapons system either changed to a straight missile one with an explosive damage equivalent of the Tengu, or keep the split but have more gun and missile slots to balance better. Legion will likely get a range bonus added for its missiles, and keep the current lackluster missile dps.

-Electronic mods will be interesting. It is entirely likely that they will swap the cloak subsystem from offensive over to electronic, namely rolling it into the locus analyzer sub. Short of this, they will either move around or change the cloaky offensive sub, i.e. amarr and gallente getting their cloak sub getting moved over to drones, and improve the original subs with tracking speed and/or firing rate bonuses. I can see certain subs like the dissolution sequencer and locus analyzer subs along with the ewar ones getting a heavy nerf. Legion neuts will likely see a decent buff.

-Propulsion subs will likely get a slight buff. Subs that increase ab speed will see a decent increase, and mwd subs that help with sig and cap will also see a buff. Grav capacitor rigs might be changed somewhat into focusing a little more on travel time, and nullifiers will stay the same.

-Engineering subs will either be left alone apart from slight numerical tweaks, or have their secondary combat effects removed.


These changes will result in the ships generally having less power than equivalent t2 hacs for their offensive and defensive purposes, less ewar usability than recon, but will perform in a wider capacity than either of them ever possibly could. They just won't have stupidly large tanks


If they nerf the repping ability of T3s it'll seriously impact wormhole PVE because there aren't really a lot of viable alternatives to fill that role's requirements
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#15 - 2014-05-01 19:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
Just let me used saved fittings with a mobile depot and I don't care how hard you nerf my tengu's damage.
Or let a T3 re-fit without the use of a mobile depot... that would be awesome!

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2014-05-01 19:17:15 UTC
T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1...

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#17 - 2014-05-01 19:18:06 UTC
Allowing T3s refit of rigs would be another possibility. With all those theoretical subsystem combinations, you have to either stick to a few you prefer and make the rigs as universal as possible, or rip them out and replace them then rip them out and replace then rip them out and replace them...

You get the drift.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2014-05-01 19:20:58 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1…

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of Legion and Proteus pilots suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something wonderful has happened."
Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Seith Kali
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-05-01 19:26:46 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
T3 rebalance nerf in 3...2...1…

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of Legion and Proteus pilots suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something wonderful has happened."
Lol


Not sure you'll find thousands of Legion pilots.

We all know the main 6-5 subsystems need toning down a touch. I think T3's power should be the ability to be reactionary. With T2 you pick the best ship for the job. If T3's lost slots being tied to subsystems, and could switch them on the fly without depots (With some penalty - emptying capacitor and shutting down engines so it couldn't be used mid engagement) being a swiss army knife starts to work.

Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege. 

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2014-05-01 19:32:47 UTC
Seith Kali wrote:
Not sure you'll find thousands of Legion pilots.

Pliots, yes; ships, probably not as much...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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