Warfare & Tactics

"K guys, here's the game. Ball goes in this hole/net, but if it doesn't, you don't win or lose anyway. Also there's no timer, so the game goes on forever, even if your team was ahead at one point, it's irrelevant 'cause they'll be behind later, 'cause there's no timer to end the game at any point."

"there's no stoppage of play, there's no referees. Here's the ball and have fun! The net's over that way, if you...you know...want to."


Now tell me exactly how you "win" this game? Long as you're playing the game sounds like you're winning as it is.

This is why I suggested to make warzone control and LP payout depend on the number of days that one side holds a particular system. The longer the system is held, the higher payouts become. Systems that go back and forth then gain only few rewards.

In that way the rewards reflect the reality.

A system full of farmers and real warriors? If it did happen, it would be a gankfest for everyone, attackers and defensers. Fighting intensifies the longer it lasts. I like it.

Anyway yes this has likely drifted off the topic of the op. But I think op has his answer and can arrange his fight through evemail if anyone from amarr is interested. I think allot of excellent points were raised in this thread that really get to the bottom of what we want faction war plexing to be like so I am giving my views here.

Cromwell says he runs missions for the squids and roams for pvp. Before inferno I would do the same. Except I would do missions for amarr. He says he cares about his home system only because of docking rights. Another gallente explained that means he gets out an alt in a stabbed ship and deplexes his home system. Is that fun? It seems to me that now you need to do that if you want to be in the middle of the war. But instead of making the game more fun docking restrictions put another barrier to fun. Now you need to have this second account deplexing while your main roams.

Sure docking restrictions will occassionally offer up the big fight. Not nearly as well as null sec does but its pretty much the same idea just with small stakes instead of large ones.

He ends by saying not everyone in fw cares about occupancy. I agree and would say *very* few do. That just shows that ccp has not really made occupancy fun yet. Most suggestions to make occupancy fun will not ruin your ability to run missions or go on roams - just like you always could. It will just add to the game.

IMO ccp should have made occupancy warfare fun first. (IMO it woudl be fun if it involved more pvp spread out throughout the warzone.) After they made it into something that is fun then they should have added consequences. Instead they through tons of isk at it and said "there now look at all the people playing faction war. Obviously we did a good job making it fun." When in fact allot of the people doing faction war were just in it for the isk. It wasn't really fun it was more isk per hour and or less of a pain than some other way to get isk. IMO you get isk so you can play eve. It doesn't makes sense to play eve just to get isk.

JAF makes some good points as well.

I agree with points 1 and 2. I think this is good about faction war. But I still think they should make it fun to try to hold onto the space.

3,4 and 5) I mostly agree with you. I agree we do not have enough of the right types of pilots in faction war to fight for each system. There are over 20,000 pilots in faction war. There are 171 systems total. This number of pilots should be enough to defend the space in pvp. But of course, most of these pilots have no interest in pvp at all. This is why the current mechanics don't work and they need adjustment.

It would be silly for me to suggest that these pilots will all of a sudden have interest in pvp if the mechanics change to emphasize pvp. They won't. But what will happen is that if fw occupancy becomes a haven for small gang pvp on a scale 5-10xs what it is now, well then not only will more pvp pilots join but more people will play eve. No offense to EVE its a great game, but Eve can get kind of boring when your looking for fights.

I think your point 3,4 and 5 does in fact point out a problem though. Even if we get 3xs the pvpers we would not be able to police all the systems under the current mechanics. This is why some people have proposed to just reduce the number of systems. I think that is going in the wrong direction toward less strategy and more blobs. Instead I think ccp should give mechanics and tools to help pvpers police the space. This includes rollbacks and better intel of when plexes are being run.

I think in the end you look at the current mechanics and claim holding your single system is a win. I don't really mind that. But it seems to me that faction war tiers and rewards were structured such that it should have been much more than just getting your stabbed alt out there to deplex your home system and the rare blob warfare to take a home system by force. But regardless of intent, I think a few tweaks can make occupancy for the other 99% of systems a lot of fun to fight for. It won't hurt people who want to claim holding a single system is winning.

Unless its fun to fight for those plexes. You know it's a game. Negative consequences just make you do things like have an alt account that sits in a stabbed ship to deplex your space. If you don't have the biggest blob (or have no interest in having a stabbed alt deplex) then you will just dock outside low sec space. This just means you will waste more time reshipping.



Yes because small scale pvp is just a warm up for blobbery.



Just because there is more small scale pvp in faction war than there is in other areas of eve doesn't mean there is enough. EVE in general needs more small scale pvp opportunities. Like I said eve is great, but it can be quite boring when you are wasting time looking for fights. IMO FW should be nonstop fighting.



What does high sec have to do with anything?

Yes its boring because the current mechanics make it efficient to hide and seek plex. If the mechanics made it more efficient to win occupancy by pvp it wouldn't be so boring.

imo running the farmers out will lead to complete dead systems like its been said time and time before Backwaters are wastelands

Deen is looking for different types of fights than you.

You want quick 1v1 (or 1v2, 2v1, etc...) fights in plexes - these I can personally get within 10 minutes of logging in - proven repeatedly over a year ago. While you were ranting about not being able to do so, I was documenting case after case of doing just that (in Fliet where WTs were very active).

Deen wants big cruiser level or higher fights. 50 on 50 brawls.

SPOILERS BELOW

Amarr Won!

Video

Battlereport

It was so nice without Cearwine mucking up the threads with his tired arguments. Go away!

Not in my perspective. I might be doing it wrong, but small-scale, especially in FW areas, to me is closer to a FPS. Instant action and gratification, if you actively seek it. To blob requires a big-ish group of "friends" online, and time. If you'd like fun here and now, that's two things you rarely have available.