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I understand the concept and agree that for longer build items it makes a difference. I should have stated it doesn't really affect me because I primarily deal with T2 module Bpcs, so time saving is mostly irrelevant. Certainly not worth my effort.

Man i would really love to have a Skype conference with Team Super Friends.

It looks to me like the players that have the "POWER" in the game ( military of economy ) call the shots.

Would like to know what the plans are for the next 1-2 years .

The teams cover everything possible to manufacture, the Ship type was just used as an example. To give you a bit better idea for the specialties, there are 135 of them total (40 broad, 95 narrow). An example is Armor, a broad specialty. It has three narrow specialties under it - Armor Active Modules, Armor Passive Expanders and Armor Passive Resistance.

Any chance we can get a complete table?

You'll like it more when you start feeding it to young science graduates eager to provide for their families. Not moral ambiguities at all

ok, so i just read all the devblogs:


congratulations, you are just ruining the game, within the six months after this update, say goodbye to eve.

i already have 3 indus corp CEO who contacted me asking if i want to buy there stuff since they are quitting and shutting down their corps (we are talking about 20+ player leaving within two weeks), and we are talking about ppl building mass T2 components, they just don't see the point of playing anymore, so do i.

what are you hoiping, having 12k players or less? cause by september, that is what will happen

I'll try to get it out to you at some point, maybe in a separate dev blog. We're still tweaking and tuning it. Should be good in a week or two.

Right now it is Ammo as the broad specialty, with Bombs, Crystals, Hybrid Ammo, Missiles & Rockets and Projectile Ammo as the narrow specialties. We could break it out further (like have separate narrow specialties for tech I and tech II ammo), but we're trying to keep the total number not too high

What is CCP trying to achieve with all the changes?

Some of the goals I think I get: :
Risk versus reward - reward riskier manufacture in low and 0 space with higher rewards. Fine, has needed addressing for a long while now.
UI changes - to reduce the Eve client UI complexity barrier to entry for players to get involved in industry and improve quality of life ( in theory :) ). Great no issues with the concept proof will be in the pudding.

What confuses me a little:
This team thing sounds fun - but I'm getting mixed messages from CCP. Some changes seem designed to encourage spreading out of players, other changes seem to be designed to do directly the opposite and clump players together. Which is it you are trying to encourage? Or are you trying to encourage a more dynamic map? A map that shifts and changes over time, as players are continually adjusting trying to chase optimal conditions for profit?

If you are going to try and encourage a more nomadic moving lifestyle among the players you're going to have to look at how players work. I'm as small a minnow as you could probably get inventing and manufacturing T2 in high sec. If you made the system next door 10% cheaper I might consider moving - but moving is a massive job. When all these exciting changes land, I am most likely to stay where I am because I have so much stuff and moving it all would be a nightmare. Even with significant financial incentive I doubt I could be bothered to move more than once a year. I'm not criticizing, I like the look of a lot of the stuff on the horizon, some I know I don't understand, and some I am a bit sceptical of, but I will give it a proper chance before making my mind up. I just think IF CCP is trying to make us chase our cheese around Eve, bear in mind for some of us, moving might not be worth the effort in a practical sense.

One last thing - For the love of all the gods please please test all this stuff properly, and then test it some more, before rolling it out. It sounds exciting but CCP can do some real damage if all this new shiney stuff is riddled with bugs when it lands. The opportunity to cause long lasting damage to Eve here is huge.

You are paying extra money down, to increase material and time efficiency. This is basically converting the minerals saved, into liquid ISK spent for job installation, directly at the UI menu. Basically an option of, do you want to pay more minerals or do you want to pay more liquid ISK for whatever you are building. Liquid ISK > ship production anyone? I find this facet disturbing about the system. Any comment on that?

See, I would applaud this system if it meant, the winning system gets the team at no extra cost than the basic salary team *because* you have already paid for them by winning the bid for the system. This may affect you, or others, but then to additionally pay more to use the benefits is not really a benefit is there?

For people not looking to make a profit and just powering through the game, profit doesn't really matter and I feel this is the half that this system is going to benefit. It's not really honest. You have to acknowledge that at some stage, it is beneficial to trade off profit for speed and mass manufacturing advantage because in the end, this means overpowering your opposing alliance economically by fielding more ships than they can, even if you lose more ships. There are people who do this, and you have to acknowledge that PLEXING is built into the game, and on a level that is okay, but when it becomes punishing to others who don't use it, I feel it is unfair.

That is what I mean by dishonest.

If it was honest, you would take into account the *fact* that you have already, taken into account for labor workforce and the cost of needing to pay additional money in a system if the workforce is in high demand. This already implies specialized labor because the wages are different from one system to another.

So when you bid, say 10m on a team to get them to work in a system, and then you pay them even more to actually work, it doesn't make any sense except from a PLEX > power gaming perspective. You have already won them, you have paid for them one way or another and the system activity will go up. At least the person who bought them, will use them for extensive manufacturing, which means whether or not you decide to use them or not, your installation job costs, your wages for the default team will still go up and this makes no sense. You are implying the default team somehow does not exist or does not consist of workers by asking to pay extra for a team of workers. Yes, they are specialized, yes, they are on boosters, made to set them up for life in a short time span, but this is accounted for by the winning bid for a system - this goes to the team, does it not?

When they go to work, they still replace regular Joe, who has been working there in the system to feed his family at the same job. You wouldn't pay a specialized team, that has already been paid extra for their 'burnout' style of working, a higher wage because they are still say, flipping burgers... They may be better at flipping burgers, but you made sure of that when you hired them. Does this make sense? You've already paid them to work there, and as work rises because quality of work rises, the wages rise. So... They are paid fairly just by being treated as regular workers and by ironically, generating more work, they gain more than poor Joe would working there, even as he has already been replaced.

The cost for specialized teams is already built into the system, before you actually double pay for the specialized team. Better workers implies more work, which implies higher salaries and this is the default behavior with the labor system just explained in previous dev blogs. So I ask again, what are you paying for?

Goes back to my original point, you are paying liquid ISK for convenience, not necessarily profit. I think once people start to realize this by running actual math through their spreadsheets, this is not going to be a very exciting feature.

I like the idea, but not the way it is implemented.

Furthermore, I like the legacy, team ownership and PI training ideas. They should be in the game not because it helps or are not necessarily because your goals for landscape shaping have been met, but because they are very technically sound.

Unfortunately I think they come from different camps. The camp working to make the game more profitable and the camp actually working to make the game more fun and non-generic. It doesn't seem to me that they have met at a happy medium here, at least for the non-powering gamer.

I would be very excited about this system if not for the 'double-down' ISK sink, which is favoring a particular style of play, while assuming everyone is plexing. Dare I say, if I am not PLEXING, am I still not paying a subscription for the same game? Or is my subscription worth less because I am not plexing, I mean a "specialized worker"? Hmm.