Jita Park Speakers Corner

I think something that the slippery slope arguments ignore is that part of the novelty of skills is that they represent a choice. SP is a resource that builds over time and you have a bit of a control over that resource with things like implants and remaps, but that's as far as it goes.

The problem with core skills is that there aren't any situations where you don't want them. They're so important and necessary for flying any ship in the game that they might as well not exist. Other skills like weapon upgrades involve some kind of meaningful choice. For example if you're planning to go into industry or trade there's not much of a benefit to be gained from them. But try to find a career path for a new player that doesn't benefit from core skills in any way, and you'll see what I mean.

Without the element of choice -- where based on your early experiences with the game and a desired career / gameplay path you decode which skills are worth getting and prioritize accordingly -- skills become a meaningless and artificial barrier.

That's why I think it's okay to follow the OP's proposal for core skills, as there's a clear line you can draw that avoids the slippery slope argument of getting rid of all skills.

We already give new players a certain amount of SP. Why not give them enough to have all the core skills to lV or V? What level of meaningful gameplay do we lose by letting them start at V instead of III?

I can tell you the way I felt a few weeks into this game was "I wish I had created an account 3 months ago and just let it run until now." Coincidentally it took me about three months before I started actually enjoying the game play and didn't feel completely gimped when doing basic new player activities. CCP was lucky enough that I'm persistent and that I happened to be busy enough with work that I ended up waiting out the three months. Now I have two paying accounts and will probably end up with more down the road.

I came very close to can calling after my first month of subscription, and in fact two of the friends I started the game with already quit for that exact same reason. Had they had the skills you get 3 months into the game, I'm pretty sure they would still be playing.

There's nothing wrong about making a hardcore game that discourages casual gameplay and just isn't for everybody.

Moar players doesn't necessarily mean either a better game or more profits for CCP. Having a strong and unique vision seems to have worked better for the past 11 years.

This game has a different approach and it's not for everyone. Complaining about every point of view that is different from yours will not bring anything further to your cause. It's evident that many people disagree with your presentation; not particularly the need for it to be reconsider, but nor did you provide a level headed explanation based on input from others.

If you think about it, new players also leave the game for other reasons. Reading outrageous rantings of how new players don't get advantages, when to be honest Eve Online has listened openly and is looking to revamp the new player experience.

Your point of view has been noted and the need for you to argue seems to go beyond the game itself (i.e. Farmville)

*Looks around*

"Moderator? Can we get a moderator please...? We have a customer who seems to have lost their DAMN MIND and needs help finding it!" :P

Another couple of points.

First is: as far as actual gameplay is concerned, SP makes very little difference. Lvl 4 missions are exactly the same gameplay as Lvl 1, mining in a hulk is exactly the same as mining in a venture, PVPing in a battleship is very similar to PVPing in a frigate (tactics differ obviously, but it's still warp/move/target/point/shoot/repair etc.).

Second is: if you're playing with others, SP isn't so important. No gang or fleet will say no to an extra tackle, scout or dps. Yes, FCs will say 'f*k off' to somebody that has the SP for a HAC but doesn't want to fly one because he's lazy or risk-averse, but I've never heard an FC say that to an enthusiastic and reasonably smart newbro that just wants to help and get involved with the 'big boys'.

SP seem to matter most to solo players, but this is an MMO.

I think , new characters.
First on each account , during creation should get a possible scheme to choose:
- miner
- industry
- hauling
- gunnery specialist
- missile specialist
- drone specialist

This will be good for eve:
- new players will be capable of doing something
- more players -> more fun for others / more isk for ccp

This 'argument' pops up in almost every thread. It's an incredibly silly argument because:

1) it has nothing to do with the gameplay

2) it could be used to support basically anything, from pink Hello Kitty style spaceships ('just think of all the little girls that would sub!!!') to hardcore avatar p0rn ('just think of all the pervs that would sub!!!')

3) while anybody that has played for a couple hundred hours can have something interesting to say about EVE - the game, nobody except CCP management has enough information to make meaningful comments on EVE - the business


TL;DR: Please focus on good ideas for better gameplay, not crap ideas just 'to get moar subs'.

Min/Maxer tears. Good.

When I started Eve the incredibly deep, varied & long skill queue was one of the biggest attractions to the game. It creates a real sense of goal setting and a meaningful reward for making a choice in the game of what to train next.

I also think you're overstating the need for Core skills to all 5's. 3's and 4's are quick - and usually a ship only begs for a 5 in a particular skill. I definitely don't think Navigation skills should be handed out like candy. They are a real choice in the game that should not be watered down.

I agree that keeping paying players benefits us all, but I don't think your proposal is the way to go. I mean, what's next -- free monocles for all??

Thus is the flaw. There's already so much whining over alleged throw-away alts that this would make the carebear population's heads explode in indignation.

If it were to be done, I'd support the removal of the increase ships PG/CPU fitting skills. They're short but also so mandatory they're pointless. Ships should just have the grid and CPU.