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Dev Blog: Researching, the Future: Stupidity

First post First post
Author
Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-29 13:13:43 UTC
It appears CCP is dumbing down Research. Instead of ME/PE we get Level 1-10 in each in category and that is it. Blueprint Copies will be be made so fast, that they can be used just as well as BPOs.

The reasoning?

"The major reason for changing this system is that the current relationship between ME/TE level and actual savings is difficult to understand without wrapping your head around some reasonably non-trivial math, which adds fairly substantially to the mental barrier of entry for industry and generally makes the system more opaque than it really needs to be."

Who, exactly, the ****, are they talking about? I am feeling insulted here. Since when is a simple division "non-trivial math"? Where exactly is this "mental barrier"? Apparently they want to attract drooling morons to the economy sandbox, because, you know, simple math is just too much of a entry-barrier to pass. On top of that, apparently we can't have normal people (notice i don't use "intelligent" here) have an advantage over retards, so everybody is equalized to the same level of idiocy. The probably should call this expansion "Eve Idiocracy", "now with free character transfer from Wow and teletubbies online".

Say goodbye to your Excel sheets, your carefull examination of market niches, your exploitation and manipulation schemes, because it is fairly obvious everybody is going to be brought down to the same level of badness. Apparently the notion of complexity and the requirement to think for a modest time is considered a bad "entry barrier" nowadays. Funny thing though, i joined this game because of its complexity and not its "accessibility" (which is just an euphemism for "we made it easy enough for really really stupid people). Apparently there are just so so many really stupid people who desperately want to play Eve but can't. Yeah right.





TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-04-29 13:17:12 UTC
You know what's stupid? How researching the first level is equal to researching all levels after that.

That, and your post.

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Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-04-29 13:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Grant
TigerXtrm wrote:
You know what's stupid? How researching the first level is equal to researching all levels after that.


Instead, it is not. The difference is between long-term efficiency and short-term effectiveness. It is a system of choice, with level 1-10 we will end up with level 10 BPCs only and that is it.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-04-29 13:35:49 UTC
Not all players are Excel-proficient aspies.
Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-29 13:39:32 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Not all players are Excel-proficient aspies.


Actually Excel is used more by business-type people who by definition are more attracted to that part of gameplay. You will find the aspies in the Technology section of the forum. I don't think people interested in an economoy sandbox will like "one click mithril-armor in space" though. And it seems we are getting there.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-04-29 14:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Actually I'm not too fussed about the changes. I even like them in general. The only thing that concerns me is the relative advantage a highly specialised character will retain over a relatively unspecialised one. If CCP are lowering the difference then that will be pretty poor to be honest. I haven't sunk 25 million SP into science to then lose the competitive advantage it's given me because of dumbing down.

And you know, if you really want to be "pro" at it, doing your own spreadsheet and so on, that's effort on your part that should be rewarded. And if you don't want to do it because you're a lazy fat-arsed slob who wants all of the benefits of simply clicking a button and then staring blankly into space until it's "completed" fine. If that's what CCP wants to do they can have it. And I'll need fewer characters subbed to manage it.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-04-29 14:23:48 UTC
Dr Grant wrote:
It appears CCP is dumbing down Research. Instead of ME/PE we get Level 1-10 in each in category and that is it. Blueprint Copies will be be made so fast, that they can be used just as well as BPOs.

The reasoning?

"The major reason for changing this system is that the current relationship between ME/TE level and actual savings is difficult to understand without wrapping your head around some reasonably non-trivial math, which adds fairly substantially to the mental barrier of entry for industry and generally makes the system more opaque than it really needs to be."

Who, exactly, the ****, are they talking about? I am feeling insulted here. Since when is a simple division "non-trivial math"? Where exactly is this "mental barrier"? Apparently they want to attract drooling morons to the economy sandbox, because, you know, simple math is just too much of a entry-barrier to pass. On top of that, apparently we can't have normal people (notice i don't use "intelligent" here) have an advantage over retards, so everybody is equalized to the same level of idiocy. The probably should call this expansion "Eve Idiocracy", "now with free character transfer from Wow and teletubbies online".

Say goodbye to your Excel sheets, your carefull examination of market niches, your exploitation and manipulation schemes, because it is fairly obvious everybody is going to be brought down to the same level of badness. Apparently the notion of complexity and the requirement to think for a modest time is considered a bad "entry barrier" nowadays. Funny thing though, i joined this game because of its complexity and not its "accessibility" (which is just an euphemism for "we made it easy enough for really really stupid people). Apparently there are just so so many really stupid people who desperately want to play Eve but can't. Yeah right.



Loved you in the First and third Jurassic Park movies....although, velociraptors weren't quite that big. They were about the size of a large breed dog...the movie ones were more like Deinonychus antirrhopus.

But back on topic, these changes wont cause spreadsheets to go away, IMO. You'll still need to figure out costs, and you'll still need to calculate expected profits/benefits.

Margins will likely come down as CCP seems intent on increasing the level of competition in various markets though.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2014-04-29 14:43:03 UTC
Intelligent people tend to make complicated processes easier and more efficient in the search for profit. Simply put, CCP is doing the intelligent thing by making certain aspects of the game more attractive in an attempt to expand and/or retain a certain demographic in order to make/preserve profit.

That fact that it reduces the economic advantage of your superior brain simply means that CCP considers larger groups of lesser people to be more valuable than you. If you fire up Excel and run the numbers, you'll see that a lot of lesser people paying 14.99 a month is better than a few ubermensch paying 14.99 a month.


However, since you posted, it means you're concerned, so I will try to help a fellow human being in distress. Have you perhaps considered filing a reverse discrimination lawsuit against CCP?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2014-04-29 14:52:14 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
You know what's stupid? How researching the first level is equal to researching all levels after that.

That, and your post.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-04-29 15:32:31 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

That fact that it reduces the economic advantage of your superior brain simply means that CCP considers larger groups of lesser people to be more valuable than you. If you fire up Excel and run the numbers, you'll see that a lot of lesser people paying 14.99 a month is better than a few ubermensch paying 14.99 a month.


The whole "many stupid people are better than the people we currently have" argument was made before for the planned "ken and barbie in stations" expansion. You are right it worked really well for them.

Oh wait.

It didn't. Because it is not as if there isn't plenty of stupid people who already play games that are specifically catered to them. People who want sandbox economy want choice and complexity. Otherwise you might as well play one of those games that give easy rewards to stupid people. The immediate result will be that people interested in the sandbox will quit some of the multiple accounts, because they are probably not needed anymore. That will be the only immediate effect.

In the long term if other aspect get the "stupid treatment", people who play the spreadsheet game will just quit the game altogether. And that is where we are headed.

Make no mistake, CCP didn't just make the process of research more efficient and streamlined. That is something i could get behind. They removed choice.

Ginger Barbarella
#11 - 2014-04-29 16:06:47 UTC
Dr Grant wrote:
It appears CCP is dumbing down Research.


Pretty sure they're working on the assumption that Easy Button = more subscriptions.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Ginger Barbarella
#12 - 2014-04-29 16:09:10 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
You know what's stupid? How researching the first level is equal to researching all levels after that.

That, and your post.


When logic (and knowing what you're talking about) fails, always resort to ad hominem. You're a goonie, aren't you? Go on, admit it...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#13 - 2014-04-29 16:15:02 UTC
How did they remove choice? It seems to be just a streamlined process. Why do people like the endless clicking process? You still have to play the meta. You still have to choose and run the processes. You still have to find ways to beat competition. You just ddon't have to bore the **** out of yourself with redundancies that add nothing to gameplay.
Dr Grant
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-04-29 16:20:55 UTC
Nicola Arman wrote:
How did they remove choice? It seems to be just a streamlined process. Why do people like the endless clicking process? You still have to play the meta. You still have to choose and run the processes. You still have to find ways to beat competition. You just ddon't have to bore the **** out of yourself with redundancies that add nothing to gameplay.


Right now you have to make the choice:

Invest time or isk into high efficient BPO, and if so how much, considering how much the diminishing return is worthwhile for YOUR business scenario (for example quick production run vs. long term investment)

After the change:

Everyone will just research and have Level 10 BPOs (no choice) and if you are too lazy for even that just crank out basically instant and free BPCs.

Right now:

You can't get perfect results for most BPOs, you must decide what is "good enough" for YOUR scenario

After the change:

Get Level 10 and be done with it.
Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#15 - 2014-04-29 16:29:13 UTC
It's the same ****... we research them now until they hit a good number for us. Too much research turns out to be dumb or just plain masochistic. How does that equate to choice? Negligible differences Vs other neglible differences?
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2014-04-29 16:32:04 UTC
Dr Grant wrote:


Make no mistake, CCP didn't just make the process of research more efficient and streamlined. That is something i could get behind. They removed choice.



What choices are being removed?
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#17 - 2014-04-29 17:26:41 UTC
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Dr Grant wrote:


Make no mistake, CCP didn't just make the process of research more efficient and streamlined. That is something i could get behind. They removed choice.



What choices are being removed?


The choice of being an idiot, obviously.
Volar Kang
Kang Industrial
#18 - 2014-04-29 17:30:25 UTC
On the bright side, start researching a bunch of BPO's to ME10 now and you will get maxed researched BPO's when the change hits!
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Manifesto.
#19 - 2014-04-29 20:13:46 UTC
Yeah, this will be so easy now every goon can do it! Lol

Sorry, couldn't resist but seriously, I obviously need to re-read the Dev Blog as I took away that it will be easier to understand but not necessarily easier to do. Maybe I missed something.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-04-29 21:38:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Intelligent people tend to make complicated processes easier and more efficient in the search for profit. Simply put, CCP is doing the intelligent thing by making certain aspects of the game more attractive in an attempt to expand and/or retain a certain demographic in order to make/preserve profit.

That fact that it reduces the economic advantage of your superior brain simply means that CCP considers larger groups of lesser people to be more valuable than you. If you fire up Excel and run the numbers, you'll see that a lot of lesser people paying 14.99 a month is better than a few ubermensch paying 14.99 a month.



I guess we could give the the benefit of doubt, they have/had a mmo with steadily growing subs when noone had, maybe they will succeed where everyone has failed so far, streamlining and simplifying the game in search for new subs.
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