These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Overpowered Modules

Author
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-04-28 17:34:46 UTC
OK, let me break it down so that you can understand. We'll call this The Evolution of Damage.

In the beginning man uses a rock to kill another man. When word spreads and another man thinks on how to protect himself against such a threat and comes up with a club. Then another man comes up with a knife, then a sword, shield, bow and arrow, armour and then guns. Then we take to the skies. Man develops spaceships with limited hull protection. Someone comes up with a way to enhance the hull with armour and then someone else invents a form a energy protection they call shields. Now each damage/protection has it's advantages and drawbacks.

Now skip a few years where energy is key to almost everything. Now as someone has already pointed out. Neuts and Nos' haven't changed much since first introduced. But someone has come up with a way to at least protect ships from them. Now a neut/nos is a form of damage, wouldn't someone find a way to inherently protect a portion of that needed energy in a similar way that armour and shield do from physical harm without having to use a module? I think so. It may not protect the ship from all energy being drain, but enough for a pilot to chose what modules he's able to active.

This is the nature of war, we find ways to protect ourselves until the next best weapon comes along. And then we start all over again.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-04-28 17:41:52 UTC
A quick glance at your KB shows 1) a sizeable bunch of solo kills - congrats! 2) you like enyos a lot!

Neuts are arguably the best possible counter to an Enyo that doesn't have neither a cap booster nor a nos...


Consider that most of the time, you would've murdered the other guy if you just had a nos.

And what's wrong with fitting a cap booster in one of those midslots if you're expecting neuts? Enyos work without a web (that's what the range and tracking bonuses are for).

If you're under a single neut, it's very viable to just spam f1 and murder the guy between his neut cycles - ungrouping guns and spamming f1-f4 should work even better.

Small neuts have 6km range, that's another big limitation.


Finally: try flying a neut frig for a week, their downsides/counters will be very obvious to you.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-04-28 17:44:39 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
PS: don't tell me it is about that enyo and comet loss :)



This is most definitely not about the Enyo or Comet loss. This is about the balance of play.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-04-28 17:51:10 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
A quick glance at your KB shows 1) a sizeable bunch of solo kills - congrats! 2) you like enyos a lot!

Neuts are arguably the best possible counter to an Enyo that doesn't have neither a cap booster nor a nos...


Consider that most of the time, you would've murdered the other guy if you just had a nos.

And what's wrong with fitting a cap booster in one of those midslots if you're expecting neuts? Enyos work without a web (that's what the range and tracking bonuses are for).

If you're under a single neut, it's very viable to just spam f1 and murder the guy between his neut cycles - ungrouping guns and spamming f1-f4 should work even better.

Small neuts have 6km range, that's another big limitation.


Finally: try flying a neut frig for a week, their downsides/counters will be very obvious to you.


This is the kind of constructive conversation I am looking for. Not because he's praising my ability and seeing the ships I like. Buy offering something I haven't though of: Ungrouping my weapons in the hopes of getting a few good shots off.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#25 - 2014-04-28 17:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
Neuts haven't changed since 2003(small tweaks here and there maybe), yet people still user lasers/hybrids and don't fit cap boosters.

Neuts are fine, they are about the only way a non-drone BS has any hope of killing a frig outside of sniping it from 100km away.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-04-28 17:55:23 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
Neuts haven't changed since 2003(small tweaks here and there maybe), yet people still user lasers/hybrids and don't fit cap boosters.

Neuts are fine.


If neuts haven't changed since 2003 then there's been no evolution or progress.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#27 - 2014-04-28 18:03:15 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
Neuts haven't changed since 2003(small tweaks here and there maybe), yet people still user lasers/hybrids and don't fit cap boosters.

Neuts are fine.


If neuts haven't changed since 2003 then there's been no evolution or progress.


If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-04-28 18:03:28 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
I'm sorry to say this, but I'm getting really tired of overpowered modules and ships.

I don't mind losing a fight if I'm able to fight back. But coming up against a neut in a brawl is almost impossible to beat. There needs to be some limitation on the power of a neut and it should never be able to completely drain the cap of a target ship. Yes I know there are modules that can counter a neut, but they are limited and off little use. If you don't change how a neut functions then pretty soon everyone will be flying around with capless weapons and neuts, and all other modules will be left to the wayside. Then what's the point of flying other ships if we have to fit cap protection modules? There isn't any. And what's the point of engaging in PvP if everyone just neuts everyone else? Again, there isn't any. There is no skill involved in neuting a ship. A nos I can understand as that transfers some power from one ship to another, and has limitations on function and capabilities. But not a neut, draining all cap very quickly.

So I applaud you, please rethink the capabilities of energy neutralisers.


So I take it you've never heard of counters? Neut beats brawler because duh, obviously, but kiting beats neut and brawler if you can maintain range. Your argument is equivalent to saying "My cloaky scout lost a fight to a brawler ship so brawlers are OP and need to be nerfed."

Also, ECM beats neuts hands down.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-04-28 18:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Astroniomix
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
Neuts haven't changed since 2003(small tweaks here and there maybe), yet people still user lasers/hybrids and don't fit cap boosters.

Neuts are fine.


If neuts haven't changed since 2003 then there's been no evolution or progress.

That's because they didn't need it.

Seriously, go try out something with a neut on it if you're having a hard time countering them, or at the very least stop flying stuff that gets hard countered by neuts (un cap boosted/nos-less blaster boats with active tanks)

Tengu Grib wrote:


So I take it you've never heard of counters? Neut beats brawler because duh, obviously, but kiting beats neut and brawler if you can maintain range. Your argument is equivalent to saying "My cloaky scout lost a fight to a brawler ship so brawlers are OP and need to be nerfed."

Also, ECM beats neuts hands down.

It's also worth mentioning that some ships can beat down a neuting vessel with sheer DPS before it has a chance to turn their guns off.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-04-28 18:06:55 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
This is the kind of constructive conversation I am looking for. Not because he's praising my ability and seeing the ships I like. Buy offering something I haven't though of: Ungrouping my weapons in the hopes of getting a few good shots off.

Glad to have helped a fellow miliitaman.

If you haven't tried yet, I strongly suggest you fly some neut frigs. It helps to try neuting for yourself if you want to assess balance.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#31 - 2014-04-28 18:10:23 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:


This is the kind of constructive conversation I am looking for. Not because he's praising my ability and seeing the ships I like. Buy offering something I haven't though of: Ungrouping my weapons in the hopes of getting a few good shots off.



Another trick, put your MWD offline if you're using one. All of that restricted cap is given back. Essentially a last ditch one-time use cap booster.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#32 - 2014-04-28 18:17:01 UTC
So if you're sitting next to a Mobile depot and keep offlining/onlining your MWD......

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#33 - 2014-04-28 18:23:26 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
You've just made my point for me. Everyone might as well start flying ships that fit weapons that don't use cap. If that happens, might as well not have any Amarr and Gallente ships in the game and then there will be no ships choices and everyone will start flying the same thing. And then what's the point of playing the game as there will be no choice or variety.
Wait I thought this was the "Nerf OP blasters" thread....

Blasters > dps than Autocannons.
Autocannons require no cap and can select damage type.

If you want dps against kin/therm go with blasters. If you want flexibility, go with autocannons.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-04-28 18:27:03 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
So I take it you've never heard of counters? Neut beats brawler because duh, obviously, but kiting beats neut and brawler if you can maintain range. Your argument is equivalent to saying "My cloaky scout lost a fight to a brawler ship so brawlers are OP and need to be nerfed."

Also, ECM beats neuts hands down.


So I take it you've never had an intillegent though your whole life. Before making any comments, please read the entirity of the forum to prevent foot-in-mouth.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-04-28 18:31:37 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
A quick glance at your KB shows 1) a sizeable bunch of solo kills - congrats! 2) you like enyos a lot!

Neuts are arguably the best possible counter to an Enyo that doesn't have neither a cap booster nor a nos...


Consider that most of the time, you would've murdered the other guy if you just had a nos.

And what's wrong with fitting a cap booster in one of those midslots if you're expecting neuts? Enyos work without a web (that's what the range and tracking bonuses are for).

If you're under a single neut, it's very viable to just spam f1 and murder the guy between his neut cycles - ungrouping guns and spamming f1-f4 should work even better.

Small neuts have 6km range, that's another big limitation.


Finally: try flying a neut frig for a week, their downsides/counters will be very obvious to you.


This is the kind of constructive conversation I am looking for. Not because he's praising my ability and seeing the ships I like. Buy offering something I haven't though of: Ungrouping my weapons in the hopes of getting a few good shots off.


That would actually probably make a really big difference. Neut ships tend to be relatively weak.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#36 - 2014-04-28 18:32:29 UTC
a fairly effective way to avoid neuts is to stay out of range. It has also other advantages like damage mitigation etc.

There are also ships out there which don't really care bout neuts. If you sit in an hawk for example you can keep fighting and tanking etc. Ships which highly depend on cap can usually also fit cap injectors. For example i don't have any navy omen or navy aug fitting which doesn't have a cap injector on it.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-04-28 18:38:53 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
So I take it you've never heard of counters? Neut beats brawler because duh, obviously, but kiting beats neut and brawler if you can maintain range. Your argument is equivalent to saying "My cloaky scout lost a fight to a brawler ship so brawlers are OP and need to be nerfed."

Also, ECM beats neuts hands down.


So I take it you've never had an intillegent though your whole life. Before making any comments, please read the entirity of the forum to prevent foot-in-mouth.


Not at all, you're saying that the current state of neuts is a fitting problem, where other considerations like kiting and such are tactical concerns. I disagree with you. If you fly a cap reliant ship like an enyo ( a ship I love btw, excellent choice ) then yeah, cap drains are going to suck for you. But that's an engagement risk and needs to be considered tactically. As such, imo, neuts are not a fitting problem, but a tactical problem, to be considered in the same way as one would consider brawlers vs. kiting etc.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#38 - 2014-04-28 18:39:01 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
So if you're sitting next to a Mobile depot and keep offlining/onlining your MWD......



Then you're sitting still in a frigate next to a mobile depot looking like an idiot before someone shoots you.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-04-28 18:50:08 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Eric de'Locke wrote:


This is the kind of constructive conversation I am looking for. Not because he's praising my ability and seeing the ships I like. Buy offering something I haven't though of: Ungrouping my weapons in the hopes of getting a few good shots off.



Another trick, put your MWD offline if you're using one. All of that restricted cap is given back. Essentially a last ditch one-time use cap booster.


I never thought of that, that's really clever.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#40 - 2014-04-28 18:54:53 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Last Wolf wrote:
So if you're sitting next to a Mobile depot and keep offlining/onlining your MWD......



Then you're sitting still in a frigate next to a mobile depot looking like an idiot before someone shoots you.



Still, I didn't know that was even possible. Nearly ever non capital PvP ship fits a MWD so this could be useful on a BS or BC for example. I doubt it would give unlimited cap anyways, if it does it will be fixed asap.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....