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Overpowered Modules
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Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-28 15:11:55 UTC
I'm sorry to say this, but I'm getting really tired of overpowered modules and ships.

I don't mind losing a fight if I'm able to fight back. But coming up against a neut in a brawl is almost impossible to beat. There needs to be some limitation on the power of a neut and it should never be able to completely drain the cap of a target ship. Yes I know there are modules that can counter a neut, but they are limited and off little use. If you don't change how a neut functions then pretty soon everyone will be flying around with capless weapons and neuts, and all other modules will be left to the wayside. Then what's the point of flying other ships if we have to fit cap protection modules? There isn't any. And what's the point of engaging in PvP if everyone just neuts everyone else? Again, there isn't any. There is no skill involved in neuting a ship. A nos I can understand as that transfers some power from one ship to another, and has limitations on function and capabilities. But not a neut, draining all cap very quickly.

So I applaud you, please rethink the capabilities of energy neutralisers.
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-04-28 15:16:04 UTC
What is a cap booster?

That's correct. Jimmy, tell him what he's won.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-04-28 15:17:55 UTC
As a non PvP person this is a serious question...why not burn out/warp when you get nueted and know you can't counter it? Then refit for kiting and stay out of range of neut?

If it's happening that often wouldn't a cap booster ro cap battery help too?
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-04-28 15:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
Weapons: Missiles or Projectiles - it sucks but don't use Amarr or Gallente weapons systems without a cap booster and even then ...

Outside of that - neuts and such are heavily needed when facing bigger ships in many situations. Try dealing with a siege or triage mode capital ship.

Neut it out is a top priority while they are "stuck" to kill it before it can drop out of that mode and get patched up from others in that fleet. If you can't drain the cap, often they can't be killed by groups that *DO* kill them regularly.

It's a trade-off/balancing act and messing here can and will mess with some mid-sized and larger group PvP - which is still a valid higher priority than solo and really small group PvP.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-28 15:31:15 UTC
Cap Boosters, Batteries, etc, are of limited use and require more CPU or cargo space to function correctly. Coming up against a ship fitted with 3 neuts will drain your cap very quickly. And you can't warp away if you don't have cap as well as being webbed and scrammed. That's why a rethink on neuts is needed as everyone will start flying kite ships and everything else will just be forgotten.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-04-28 15:42:09 UTC
Mocam: I understand the viability of a neut, especially in a fleet situation and in tactics. What I'm asking for is a rethink on neuts and how to defend against them. Like maybe limiting same sized ships from draining all cap from the other, while a small ship can drain more from a larger. Or limiting the number of neuts that can be fitted on a none neuting ship, similar to ancillary repairers. I also think that a ship should never be completely drained of cap outside of using it's own modules, giving the pilot the option to keep someone webbed and scrammed or to keep shooting his weapons or using a repper. Cap will go down, but he has a choice on what modules will drain the cap. They're still in the fight and not completely helpless.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2014-04-28 15:43:27 UTC
If you're expecting a fight at range, and they have blasters / AC / pulse ... are those mods "overpowered" because you fit wrong?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-04-28 15:45:09 UTC
I thought neuts were supposed to be a counter to web/scram though, take out the cap and warp away. Also aren't drones a good option against a neuting enemy, by definition he's sacrificed his guns for neuts so your drones can eat him alive.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#9 - 2014-04-28 15:46:31 UTC
Neuts have their drawbacks and are not a iWin button by any means.

They can make fitting tricky and there activation requirements impact your cap noticeably, add to that the range that they operate at is not excessive (even with hulls with bonuses for range) so I have no problem with them.

Eric de'Locke wrote:
And you can't warp away if you don't have cap as well as being webbed and scrammed.


Your problem there is not the neut but the scram, cap requirements for warping are so minimal that I have never come across a situation where I have no been able to warp with just neuts on me, even when appearing to be capped flat.

Not supported.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-04-28 15:50:51 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Cap Boosters, Batteries, etc, are of limited use and require more CPU or cargo space to function correctly. Coming up against a ship fitted with 3 neuts will drain your cap very quickly. And you can't warp away if you don't have cap as well as being webbed and scrammed. That's why a rethink on neuts is needed as everyone will start flying kite ships and everything else will just be forgotten.

A ship with 3 neuts is also going to be making sacrifices in other areas. They can be devistating if they are able to keep the target's cap down but they also fail pretty badly against ships with cap boosters or ships that don't reley heavily on cap.

TL;DR op engaged an imicus in his enyo only to get neuted out and then ***** slapped back to station.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-04-28 15:53:09 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
If you're expecting a fight at range, and they have blasters / AC / pulse ... are those mods "overpowered" because you fit wrong?


No. Any good pilot knows that kitting is a possibility and will try to close range as best they can. That is a tactic not a fitting problem. Draining cap completely takes away a pilots ability to defend, that is my argument. As the current game mechanics stand, the only way to defend against neuts is to fit costly modules or kite. If everyone kites, might as well change the game so that all ships are range ships as no-one will be using brawlers.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#12 - 2014-04-28 15:53:36 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Cap Boosters, Batteries, etc, are of limited use and require more CPU or cargo space to function correctly. Coming up against a ship fitted with 3 neuts will drain your cap very quickly. And you can't warp away if you don't have cap as well as being webbed and scrammed. That's why a rethink on neuts is needed as everyone will start flying kite ships and everything else will just be forgotten.


Yesterday I went with a thrasher against an arbi and catalyst. Arbi had 3 neuts, I lost cap almost from the start and my point was dropping after each cycle. I killed them both and podded arbi pilot.

Thrasher nerf incoming?

Invalid signature format
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-04-28 16:01:03 UTC
There are many things you can do to counter neuts. You seem to just not like the idea of having to fit a module to do that.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-04-28 16:01:27 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:


Yesterday I went with a thrasher against an arbi and catalyst. Arbi had 3 neuts, I lost cap almost from the start and my point was dropping after each cycle. I killed them both and podded arbi pilot.

Thrasher nerf incoming?


You've just made my point for me. Everyone might as well start flying ships that fit weapons that don't use cap. If that happens, might as well not have any Amarr and Gallente ships in the game and then there will be no ships choices and everyone will start flying the same thing. And then what's the point of playing the game as there will be no choice or variety.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-04-28 16:05:12 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Cap Boosters, Batteries, etc, are of limited use and require more CPU or cargo space to function correctly. Coming up against a ship fitted with 3 neuts will drain your cap very quickly. And you can't warp away if you don't have cap as well as being webbed and scrammed. That's why a rethink on neuts is needed as everyone will start flying kite ships and everything else will just be forgotten.


Neuts haven't grown in power have they? Unless you're privy to information I don't have - feel free to share - I don't see them as being as great a threat to diversity as you are outlining.

The range on them ... I don't think that's changed since they first came out and their effects... Outside of when they added overheating - a couple spec buffs for certain ships... Nothing's really changed with them in a very long time.

Kite ships are popular and so are brawlers and a range of configs between the 2.

Unless neuts have been changed to be even more powerful recently, I don't see this as a new issue and kite ships aren't the only popular fit across all these years they've been the way they are.

So, again; unless they've gotten somehow much more powerful than they were (and I missed it - this is possible), I just don't see them as any more a threat than they have been - tough to face but a good number of options on how to deal with them.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-04-28 16:06:14 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:


Yesterday I went with a thrasher against an arbi and catalyst. Arbi had 3 neuts, I lost cap almost from the start and my point was dropping after each cycle. I killed them both and podded arbi pilot.

Thrasher nerf incoming?


You've just made my point for me. Everyone might as well start flying ships that fit weapons that don't use cap. If that happens, might as well not have any Amarr and Gallente ships in the game and then there will be no ships choices and everyone will start flying the same thing. And then what's the point of playing the game as there will be no choice or variety.

Or you could..... fit a cap booster. Or even a nos if you're in a frigate.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-04-28 16:15:50 UTC
If they are so powerful, use them.

/thread
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-04-28 16:31:58 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
If they are so powerful, use them.

/thread


Again you are making my point for me: If everyone is using the same modules why have others!? As there is an inherent protection against damage, there should be against energy drain.

I'll say this for the last time: I am not asking for them to be removed, just reworked.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#19 - 2014-04-28 16:49:46 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:


Yesterday I went with a thrasher against an arbi and catalyst. Arbi had 3 neuts, I lost cap almost from the start and my point was dropping after each cycle. I killed them both and podded arbi pilot.

Thrasher nerf incoming?


You've just made my point for me. Everyone might as well start flying ships that fit weapons that don't use cap. If that happens, might as well not have any Amarr and Gallente ships in the game and then there will be no ships choices and everyone will start flying the same thing. And then what's the point of playing the game as there will be no choice or variety.



Neuts are fine. I currently fly only Amarr and Gallente and I see no problem with neuts. Batteries and boosters are magic, the reason they cost so much to fit is because otherwise they would be the OP modules in this discussion. Amarr ships are designed for kiting and Gallente for drone boating, both of which are heavy counters to neuts. There is no conflict here.

Pick your fights.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#20 - 2014-04-28 17:32:11 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:


Yesterday I went with a thrasher against an arbi and catalyst. Arbi had 3 neuts, I lost cap almost from the start and my point was dropping after each cycle. I killed them both and podded arbi pilot.

Thrasher nerf incoming?


You've just made my point for me. Everyone might as well start flying ships that fit weapons that don't use cap. If that happens, might as well not have any Amarr and Gallente ships in the game and then there will be no ships choices and everyone will start flying the same thing. And then what's the point of playing the game as there will be no choice or variety.


Lasers have huge optimal in comparison to projectiles, medium neut is what, 12-13km, small 6-7km?
Hybrids come in 2 flavors just as projectiles so you can choose how you wanna fight: at range or up close.
Both Amarr and Gallente have ships using drones and various types of EWAR.

Above all you have best ship in Eve: friendship.

Embrace variety, choose your battles according to ships you flying and enjoy every explosion even if it is yours.

PS: don't tell me it is about that enyo and comet loss :)

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