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The obvious

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Mac Stern
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#141 - 2014-04-27 01:20:38 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Mac Stern wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

Like a smoker, I've quit repeatedly over it.

Last time I was away was for a whole year.

I've unsubbed yet again, and am just playing EVE offline until my paid time runs out.

logged in and checked....12 in system 11 in station + the cloaky camper. What an awesomely fun game mechanic.


So, how do you know that player is AFK, or even cloaked?

I'm curious.. What did your landlord say when you complained about these (alleged) AFK cloakers terrorizing your group?

Like pretty much everything you have put into this debate and you yourself, it is irrelevant to what we are talking about.


So, they told you to come here and complain?

That's the vibe I'm getting...

Relevant or not, it does not diminish your cowerdice if a single player can lock down your entire operation.

You have no kills or losses but I am a coward? While my ahem lol "career" in pvp was not good it is mostly (90 percent) solo work. Dont talk about things you know nothing about, and please dont embaress yourself with the "if you knew who my main was..."
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#142 - 2014-04-27 01:28:05 UTC
Mac Stern wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Mac Stern wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

Like a smoker, I've quit repeatedly over it.

Last time I was away was for a whole year.

I've unsubbed yet again, and am just playing EVE offline until my paid time runs out.

logged in and checked....12 in system 11 in station + the cloaky camper. What an awesomely fun game mechanic.


So, how do you know that player is AFK, or even cloaked?

I'm curious.. What did your landlord say when you complained about these (alleged) AFK cloakers terrorizing your group?

Like pretty much everything you have put into this debate and you yourself, it is irrelevant to what we are talking about.


So, they told you to come here and complain?

That's the vibe I'm getting...

Relevant or not, it does not diminish your cowerdice if a single player can lock down your entire operation.

You have no kills or losses but I am a coward? While my ahem lol "career" in pvp was not good it is mostly (90 percent) solo work. Dont talk about things you know nothing about, and please dont embaress yourself with the "if you knew who my main was..."


You responded to a post that was not directed at you, and your alliance ticker is for a renter's alliance.

You started this thread in the wrong forum, calling for CCP to create a separate theme park and you are suprised when your thread is trolled and derailed?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Mac Stern
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#143 - 2014-04-27 01:39:13 UTC

[/quote]Really it was an attempt to bring light to the different player types and the need to keep a balance to keep everyone happy. I "feel" personally that afk cloaky is not balanced and takes away from rather then enhances the game. I am in total agreement that a player based economy requires losses to be healthy. I also agree that mixed pvp and pve creates a more rich playing environment. I had hoped that some people would engage in meaningful dialogue about camping, but alas that is not to be. Cloaky camping has been talked about many times before and understanding that i decided to bring people in with a premise of two groups. I dont know ultima online or its history so i cant speak for it. And if you can come up with a valid arguement for how it is balanced ill try to be open minded. Mac
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2014-04-27 01:41:07 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:

Without pvp losses, it probably would only take 2-3 months for industrialists to build all of the ships & equipment needed, for everyone. (Plus ongoing ammo consumption, which honestly can be created from mission loot, etc.)

No losses = no sales. No economy.



Fortunately, there are lots of people that really enjoy PvP... and in big ships too.

Those people seem to create more than enough boom for the industrialists. If they did not, then deflation woud take hold, driving down prices for ores and other manufacturing inputs to the point that people stopped harvesting them.

EVE is a big game, in a big universe, and can accommodate many play styles... I just want people to actually have to be at the keyboard.. you now.... PLAYING!


Now, I'm going to turn the pro-don't-even-have-to-be-at-the-keyboard fail arguement around.

AFK cloakrs are totally harmless. It is only the cloaky campers that are at the keyboard that could possible make any boom. Therefore, removing the ability to AFK cloaky camp, by requiring the cloaky camper click a mouse or press a key a handfull of times per hour, could not possibly reduce the amount of boom, and therefore, could not possibly effect demand for ships.

The argument, of course is 100% bull, just as the "they can't possibly do harm if AFK" is, but it is nice to turn fail arguements around onto those that make them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#145 - 2014-04-27 01:45:54 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:

The argument, of course is 100% bull, just as the "they can't possibly do harm if AFK" is, but it is nice to turn fail arguements around onto those that make them.


So, if that argument is "100% bull", then how about you tell me precisely how a cloaked, afk player can actually hurt somebody? I would love to hear how someone who is mechanically unable to activate highslot modules can hurt another player.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Solecist Project
#146 - 2014-04-27 01:49:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

The argument, of course is 100% bull, just as the "they can't possibly do harm if AFK" is, but it is nice to turn fail arguements around onto those that make them.


So, if that argument is "100% bull", then how about you tell me precisely how a cloaked, afk player can actually hurt somebody? I would love to hear how someone who is mechanically unable to activate highslot modules can hurt another player.

What if he isn't actually afk but one doesn't know for sure?

Who really knows?


What options are there?



Do you undock, hoping he indeed is afk,
or do you undock constantly thinking he's cloaked ... right next to you.


This "play-style" should have never been named AFK Cloaking.


How do you take counter measures?


What can you do against getting hotdropped by somebody like that?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#147 - 2014-04-27 01:53:50 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

What if he isn't actually afk but one doesn't know for sure?



Then you get to make a choice as to how you will behave. Most people choose wrong.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Solecist Project
#148 - 2014-04-27 01:57:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

What if he isn't actually afk but one doesn't know for sure?



Then you get to make a choice as to how you will behave. Most people choose wrong.


You're not really responding to my post.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Pix Severus
Empty You
#149 - 2014-04-27 02:02:05 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
No losses = no sales. No economy.


No risk = no excitement. No interest.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#150 - 2014-04-27 02:02:32 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

The argument, of course is 100% bull, just as the "they can't possibly do harm if AFK" is, but it is nice to turn fail arguements around onto those that make them.


So, if that argument is "100% bull", then how about you tell me precisely how a cloaked, afk player can actually hurt somebody? I would love to hear how someone who is mechanically unable to activate highslot modules can hurt another player.

What if he isn't actually afk but one doesn't know for sure?

Who really knows?


What options are there?



Do you undock, hoping he indeed is afk,
or do you undock constantly thinking he's cloaked ... right next to you.


This "play-style" should have never been named AFK Cloaking.


How do you take counter measures?


What can you do against getting hotdropped by somebody like that?



Schrödinger's cloaker... Big smile Personally, I'd arrange a counter-drop.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2014-04-27 02:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Aurilien
Mac Stern wrote:

Really it was an attempt to bring light to the different player types and the need to keep a balance to keep everyone happy. I "feel" personally that afk cloaky is not balanced and takes away from rather then enhances the game. I am in total agreement that a player based economy requires losses to be healthy. I also agree that mixed pvp and pve creates a more rich playing environment. I had hoped that some people would engage in meaningful dialogue about camping, but alas that is not to be. Cloaky camping has been talked about many times before and understanding that i decided to bring people in with a premise of two groups. I dont know ultima online or its history so i cant speak for it. And if you can come up with a valid arguement for how it is balanced ill try to be open minded. Mac



The main issue with AFK cloaking, (besides from the WH perspective, which I've already given) is that smaller alliances tend to view it as EVE's version of guerilla warfare.

They don't have the ability to go head to head with a large alliance, so instead they conduct area-denial operations. Hitting them in the pocket-book, so to speak.

There have been so many threads on balancing it... It's not even funny. It's one of those issues you can't fix without breaking a whole bunch of other parts of the game. Even if you did, you'd likely get something silly in it's place, like perma-mwding frigates loaded with speed mods. You could find them, but never catch them.
Edit: Fixed quote
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2014-04-27 02:14:05 UTC
Mac Stern wrote:
Obviously they only way to make more people happy with this game would be to split it in two. Those that want pvp, and those who dont. That way 100 percent miners/ratters could enjoy there time in the game with out the interference of some pvp player. As for pvp players they could hot drop and cloaky camp each other into Armageddon. Cloaky camping and botting are just about the same anyway... just one activity is pvp other pve. The pvp player might actually have something to be proud of rather then... i blew up a retriever with my 900 mil panther black ops, im so OP... Anyways prolly going to get trolls and possibly some valid arguements but i doubt it. Also prolly it will be locked or deleted quick like by CCP. Ships can be caught ratting or mining without abusing game mechanics and fights to can be had with those who want too.

It's not whether or not to PVP, it's how and to what degree to PVP which is the choice. As has been stated many times in the past, everything in EVE is PVP.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Mac Stern
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#153 - 2014-04-27 02:47:48 UTC
[quote=Cassandra Aurilien][quote=Mac Stern]



The main issue with AFK cloaking, (besides from the WH perspective, which I've already given) is that smaller alliances tend to view it as EVE's version of guerilla warfare.

They don't have the ability to go head to head with a large alliance, so instead they conduct area-denial operations. Hitting them in the pocket-book, so to speak.

There have been so many threads on balancing it... It's not even funny. It's one of those issues you can't fix without breaking a whole bunch of other parts of the game. Even if you did, you'd likely get something silly in it's place, like perma-mwding frigates loaded with speed mods. You could find them, but never catch them.
Edit: Fixed quote[/quote

I understand what your saying, that it could seriously hamper cloaking in general, which is used by pvp and pve players alike. Yet whether campers are fixed or not other types of play will come out, and all still needs to be reviewed and perhaps changed as necessary.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#154 - 2014-04-27 02:54:48 UTC
Personal attack post deleted.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#155 - 2014-04-27 02:57:03 UTC
Topic locked for moderation discussion.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL