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Six new ships for summer expansion

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#201 - 2014-04-27 22:14:06 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Battleships with extra-large weapons would be great except for missiles, which would be a miniature Phoenix in the most horrendous ways. That or it would wind up being set of larger Tier 3 BC's by skipping missiles and focusing on more positive aspects.

I'd be down for a miniature Phoenix - it would be great for structure bashing in high-sec.


Yay, make it easier and remove yet another deterrent from High sec wars. Roll Oh, and let's not forget even easier ratting via sniping.


The less deterrents from highsec wars, the better EVE will be.

In fact there needs to be more incentives to have wars.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#202 - 2014-04-27 22:15:11 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Guys, guys. This is an industry expansion. Let's think like industrialists.

...Don't look at me like that. I said industrialists, not miners.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Here's your hint:

The ships each fall into one of three categories.

One category will be fairly low impact for most players but still represent cool addition(s) to the game that I think many players will enjoy seeing.
One category fill a void that we've wanted to cover for quite a while.
One category provides more advanced version(s) of one of the most popular ships classes in EVE.


Low-impact category: I'm not exactly sure about this one. The only thing I can think of is "Sisters Rookie Ship", which isn't very industrial, though it fits the "Low Impact" and "Cool to See" descriptors.

Covering a Void category: This is probably going to be four racial haulers that are midway between Industrials and Freighters.

Advanced Popularity category: T2 Venture. Seriously. The Venture is probably the most well-received ship in all of EVE history and they see incredibly broad usage in everything from newbie mining to elite-level comedy PvP. They're an amazing ship and I have yet to encounter anyone who hates them. We've also already seen that there's a model for them.


That would be majorly disappointing.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#203 - 2014-04-27 22:18:23 UTC
What the game is missing is a proper Drone based Marauder. It should have all of the T1 Domi drone bonuses at 10%, with a Drone damage bonus also at 10%, with a sick tank.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#204 - 2014-04-27 22:19:16 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Guys, guys. This is an industry expansion. Let's think like industrialists.

...Don't look at me like that. I said industrialists, not miners.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Here's your hint:

The ships each fall into one of three categories.

One category will be fairly low impact for most players but still represent cool addition(s) to the game that I think many players will enjoy seeing.
One category fill a void that we've wanted to cover for quite a while.
One category provides more advanced version(s) of one of the most popular ships classes in EVE.


Low-impact category: I'm not exactly sure about this one. The only thing I can think of is "Sisters Rookie Ship", which isn't very industrial, though it fits the "Low Impact" and "Cool to See" descriptors.

Covering a Void category: This is probably going to be four racial haulers that are midway between Industrials and Freighters.

Advanced Popularity category: T2 Venture. Seriously. The Venture is probably the most well-received ship in all of EVE history and they see incredibly broad usage in everything from newbie mining to elite-level comedy PvP. They're an amazing ship and I have yet to encounter anyone who hates them. We've also already seen that there's a model for them.


That would be majorly disappointing.


Agreed. More useless ships that no-one will use.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#205 - 2014-04-27 22:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Edited thread after putting a little more thought into things, and reading more posts.

Since it's been linked on other threads but glossed over in favor of wide-eyed optimism (myself of which I am ALWAYS guilty of for yet to be announced features), I'm going to list the ship types that HAVE been announced as coming.
Here are some pics linked earlier by someone detailing the new indy ships. It's what looks like a new t2 mack, rorq, and orca as part of the lineup: http://imgur.com/a/QMLbl

At the bottom there are two alliance tourny ships, which will be guristas versions of the condor and blackbird. They are not pretty ships.

A t2 mack is listed at the top. This could be one of two things, the latter of which I think would go over better. First could be a more ice-mining focused barge, possibly with a nice big range bonus. The second, and more interesting one, would be an actual honest-to-God covops barge, which would be extremely useful for ninja mining in low an null, or any other place where being dropped on is a constant threat, like wh space. I think that would go over EXTREMELY well with the indy people since they've been sick and tired of being dropped on by pirates for years now.

the fourth ship type shown is what is also likely a t2 rorqual. I stand by the belief that in addition to normal compression duties, it should be able to run some manufacturing cycles for things like modules and ammunition, but certainly not ships. It could be a mobile manufacturing base to provide industrial capabilities for high-risk areas like fw or wh.

The fifth shown is the t2 orca. This will likely either specialize in the orca's command role, or be a transport that's a mid-range between indies and freighters, for hauling battleships and things.

the sixth and last, called the Prospect, is supposedly going to be a t2 version of the Venture. Now, judging by the Venture's bonuses, it will likely focus mostly on gas mining, and hopefully get a covops cloak for use in ninja gas mining in nullsec. Which would be absolutely lovely...
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#206 - 2014-04-27 22:31:29 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
The problem is CCP will have to use exisisting models if they are going to create new T2 ships.

It would be nice to see a New t2 BC group focused on DPS, however the current commands have good dps as it is, make something more powerful and BS become obsolete



the last thing eve needs right now are BCs with even more DPS. There is no need to succumb to power creep, now that most of the rebalancing effort is done.
let them give new toys to all the indus out there. make them come out of high sec.
Beofryn Sedorak
#207 - 2014-04-27 22:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Beofryn Sedorak
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Since it's been linked on other threads but glossed over in favor of wide-eyed optimism (myself of which I am ALWAYS guilty of for yet to be announced features), I'm going to list the ship types that HAVE been announced as coming.

3 new barge types, likely t2, possibly focused on ice mining or range or something to set them apart,

1 t2 version of the venture, likely specialized for gas mining, which will be extremely useful. Hope it comes with a covops for ninja null gas mining,

1 t2 version of the orca, which will likely focus less on links and more on moving things; sort of like a halfway freighter for moving ships that's a little more flexible and resilient. If not that, then likely specialize on building on the orca's command role.

1 t2 rorqual. This is going to be an interesting one. Something that expensive I could see not only focusing on ore processing, but possibly having the facilities to manufacture items. Not ships certainly, but things like modules, ammunition, and rigs. Sort of a mobile manufacturing base that could be extremely helpful in wormholes or lowsec.

Here are some pics linked earlier by someone detailing the new indy ships. It's what looks like a new t2 mack, rorq, and orca as part of the lineup: http://imgur.com/a/QMLbl

To be completely fair, if we're talking about including the new alliance tourny boats, it could JUST be the mack and not the other 2 barges plus the venture. That would make more sense from the perspective of having a barge that's specifically focused on ice-mining.


If you're basing your speculation that we'll get new barges, Orca, and Rorq on those pictures then your theory falls apart when you realize that that mackinaw has been released as a skin already, implying the Orca and Rorq are most likely also just skins.

a t2 Orca in itself isn't very far fetched as a possibility, But having them add another Rorqual without first fixing the existing one (They stated in the blog on refining changes that they know the Rorq needs more "love") just doesn't seem very realistic and a bit like "Wide eyed optimism".

Additionally, People have already found placeholders for the Mordu's Legion Frigate, Cruiser, and Battleship. They are speculated to fill the "void" of "non-empire" faction missile boats which CCP has openly stated they would like to fill.

The t2 Venture has all but been confirmed.

Could you please provide some references for your claims? I'm always eager to review what's been claimed, implied, speculated, or leaked.

Here's a very excellent resource for info on what's been found: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/240yg2/new_caldari_pirate_ships_incoming/
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#208 - 2014-04-27 22:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:

If you're basing your speculation that we'll get new barges, Orca, and Rorq on those pictures then your theory falls apart when you realize that that mackinaw has been released as a skin already, implying the Orca and Rorq are most likely also just skins.

a t2 Orca in itself isn't very far fetched as a possibility, But having them add another Rorqual without first fixing the existing one (They
stated in the blog on refining changes that they know the Rorq needs more "love") just doesn't seem very realistic and a bit like "Wide eyed optimism".

Additionally, People have already done some data mining off the dev server (not SiSi) and found placeholders for the Mordu's Legion Frigate, Cruiser, and Battleship. They are speculated to fill the "void" of no "non-empire" faction missile boats which CCP has openly stated they would like to fill.

The t2 Venture has all but been confirmed.

Could you please provide some references for your claims? I'm always eager to review waht's been claimed, implied, speculated, or leaked.


Edited my post after reviewing some more things. As far as I can tell, it's just the mack that's getting another t2 variant; not others. In regards to the data mining, it makes FAR more sense in terms of release progression for them to focus on the release of t2 ore ships as the 4 new boats, and not ncessarily new pirate faction boats due to the industry theme of the coming expansion. Here's what I'm basing my assumptions on:

"One category will be fairly low impact for most players but still represent cool addition(s) to the game that I think many players will enjoy seeing."
That would likely be what they have planned for the t2 orca and the t2 rorqual, as they will likely have unique roles that won't impact gameplay too heavily, but open up more possibilities and flexibility.

"One category fill a void that we've wanted to cover for quite a while."
Dedicated t2 gas mining boat that's applicable for null; the t2 venture (if they're smart about it) will get a covops cloak to be useful in null and wormhole space to assist with that side of industry.

"One category provides more advanced version(s) of one of the most popular ships classes in EVE."
In terms of the single consistantly largest used ship class, that would be a mining barge. In the same way it would make sense for them to make a t2 venture with better viability for gas mining in hostile space, it would make sense for them to add a ship for low/null/wh mining that's less likely to get ganked, since ganking barges (hulkageddon, anyone?) is a prevalent issue with mining in the game, having a barge with a covops gives players more options to do industry in higher-risk areas of the game.
Also, keywords for that are, "more advanced version(s)".

I am very curious to see what they have planned for the orca and rorqual, btw. Manufacturing Rorq might be a unique and interesting thing to see added, at the very least. It is also likely that the mordu placeholder ships are for the fall/winter expansion.
Beofryn Sedorak
#209 - 2014-04-27 23:01:09 UTC
I'm still curious what's convinced you so strongly that we're getting a new Barge/Exhumer.

Being that it was a seemingly off the cuff announcement, ship class could very easily refer to "mining ships" with no designation of size. Unless you're basing it off of information I haven't yet seen I'm not yet convinced we're getting a new Barge/Exhumer.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#210 - 2014-04-27 23:02:43 UTC
There already is a T2 Barge. It's called an Exhumer and comes in 3 variants already. Which they are doing a balance pass on already. Either you or CCP are delusional if you think there need to be additional exhumer's.
stoicfaux
#211 - 2014-04-28 04:21:30 UTC
T3 Industrials. Custom cargo bays (ore, minerals, ammo, etc.,) can fit for tank, cargo capacity, and/or warp speed. Plus a ship hauler subsystem. And a subsystem which reduces the reload cycle on the RLMLs.

It would eliminate the need for expanding the other race's industrial lines to "match" the Gallente line with its specialized cargo holds, while giving industrialists/haulers a good deal more flexibility (i.e. the gap between freighters and industrials is a bit wide.)


The remaining two ships will be a player built fast shuttle and either a T2 Venture or a Pirate Missile boat. Or maybe a Death Star that shoots Leopard shuttles as the ultimate in kinetic weapons.


As for T3 frigates... the idea is nice but the cost versus performance would probably undermine the practically of T3 frigates.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#212 - 2014-04-28 05:18:49 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Tech 2 Attack Battlecruisers. *Maybe* as stargate-using, smaller versions of dreadnaughts (with some weaker version of siege) that make killing POSes in low wormholes and highsec more viable.


the ABCs fill that role more or less. they should have been T2 from the start.



They don't fill the role at all.

A large POS takes about 800 battleship minutes to kill, or about 90 dreadnaught minutes in space where dread use is practical (C5-6, low, null). Less if the ships in question do not need a local tank.

Attack battlecruisers are just more agile, less well defended battleships and still take around 800 minutes to destroy a large POS. The void worth filling is a ship that uses stargates, and can kill a large POS in 4-5 hours (possibly with unique drawbacks, much as dreadnaughts have to give up their mobility and capacity to receive remote assistance to do that damage).

This is particularly important with the upcoming increased proliferation of POSes that highsec can expect with the industry changes and standing requirement changes. There is a reason that even offline POSes are seldom killed in highsec - the process of killing one is downright miserable.



Whether this void is filled by a ship that is generally useful or extremely niche, it is something that the game needs now.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Luna Arindale
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#213 - 2014-04-28 05:24:43 UTC
The orca and rorqual are ship skins, as you can see them on the market tab currently. They are not t2 variants.
Kyra D'Jinn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2014-04-28 05:43:36 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Tech 2 Attack Battlecruisers. *Maybe* as stargate-using, smaller versions of dreadnaughts (with some weaker version of siege) that make killing POSes in low wormholes and highsec more viable.


the ABCs fill that role more or less. they should have been T2 from the start.



They don't fill the role at all.

A large POS takes about 800 battleship minutes to kill, or about 90 dreadnaught minutes in space where dread use is practical (C5-6, low, null). Less if the ships in question do not need a local tank.

Attack battlecruisers are just more agile, less well defended battleships and still take around 800 minutes to destroy a large POS. The void worth filling is a ship that uses stargates, and can kill a large POS in 4-5 hours (possibly with unique drawbacks, much as dreadnaughts have to give up their mobility and capacity to receive remote assistance to do that damage).

This is particularly important with the upcoming increased proliferation of POSes that highsec can expect with the industry changes and standing requirement changes. There is a reason that even offline POSes are seldom killed in highsec - the process of killing one is downright miserable.



Whether this void is filled by a ship that is generally useful or extremely niche, it is something that the game needs now.


your math on a dread/massive battleship fleet killing a pos, is miles off the mark. It would literally take one dread less than an hour to kill a pos. 5 dreads dealing 15k dps will do just over 22 million damage in one siege cycle.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#215 - 2014-04-28 05:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
Gurristas AT XII ships (Whiptail and Chameleon), A T2 Venture (Prospector), and Mordu's Legion ships (a frig, cruiser and BS). Remember, you heard it here first.
Beofryn Sedorak
#216 - 2014-04-28 06:00:36 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Gurristas AT XII ships (Whiptail and Chameleon), A T2 Venture (Prospector), and Mordu's Legion ships (a frig, cruiser and BS). Remember, you heard it here first.


You clearly don't understand the meaning of the term "first".
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#217 - 2014-04-28 06:35:05 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Whether this void is filled by a ship that is generally useful or extremely niche, it is something that the game needs now.


Oh, sure the game needs more tools to make it even easier. And of course CCP needs to introduce even more tools to the game to make the life of Industrialists even more troublesome after this patch. And of course in an Industry themed expansion, even more tools of destruction for PVP need to be introduced.

Do you even listen to yourself or read what you type? Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ren Coursa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2014-04-28 07:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ren Coursa
No matter what they release after teasing it like this people are going to be disappointed, they should really just not talk about it at all.

Only way to mitigate the damage due to the divide of pvpers and industrialists would be a 3/3 division of the new ships, so maybe the mordu line and three industrials.

Really don't think they are going to force t3s into an expansion that isn't themed around them. So the only way we are seeing t3 in this expansion is if its an ore one.

Not sure how they could make frigs or bs t3 ever not break the game, seems the cruiser is the sweetspot for not breaking either pvp or pve. Frigs would probably break pvp and bs would probably break pve.

But whatever, mostly looking forward to flying the new worm in fw anyways. So broken.
Death Bite
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2014-04-28 07:37:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Here's your hint:

The ships each fall into one of three categories.

One category will be fairly low impact for most players but still represent cool addition(s) to the game that I think many players will enjoy seeing.
One category fill a void that we've wanted to cover for quite a while.
One category provides more advanced version(s) of one of the most popular ships classes in EVE.


1) Usually when said is null or lowsec so might be some new capital(s)?
2) Duno
3) Most popular ship class i would say is a BC - More advanced than T2 is......
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#220 - 2014-04-28 08:33:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Here's your hint:


One category provides more advanced version(s) of one of the most popular ships classes in EVE.



Betting on Tec 3 Frigates Cool