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Nerfing Highsec is good for the game.

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-04-24 21:57:32 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


This is your reading comprehension problem bleeding through again fair=!balanced. I'm not advocating EVE become :foxnews: FAIR AND BALANCED. Merely balanced.


You're suggesting the game be changed by CCP to fit how you feel it should be regardless of how it affects others desired game style. It exists as it does, and you're suggesting it be changed. You've even stated that it's your personal belief that this happen, and it's not just your attempt at propagating a discussion about it's possibility. You've stated that it's your desire that the game be changed to suit you.

By others definition, not my own of course because I merely quoted them, since you're trying to change the game to suit you at the expense of others, you are a carebear and they feel you should be told to leave.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#22 - 2014-04-24 21:57:49 UTC
What needs to happen is that null-sec gets a proper sovereignty system that keeps the inhabitants busy and entertained, so they won't be interested in the going ons of high-sec anymore.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-04-24 22:00:06 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
[

They are continually formed because its something that needs to happen. Highsec is preventing emergent gameplay, highsec buffs killed an emergent gameplay event. Anyone remember hulkaggeddon? The highsec AFK-miner advocated barge buff destroyed that wonderful event which drew nationally recognized news coverage and players from all sec areas together for an entertaining event.

Highsec is killing the game one small buff at a time and the only way to combat this is with many highsec nerfs.


According to you, since it's being "continually formed because it's something that needs to happen", then people suggesting that high sec be made "more safe" should be implemented because well, according to you, since people are suggesting it, it needs to happen.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-04-24 22:00:08 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're suggesting the game be changed by CCP to fit how you feel it should be regardless of how it affects others desired game style.

no. especially considering how it affects carebears' desired game style
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-04-24 22:00:51 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
What needs to happen is that null-sec gets a proper sovereignty system that keeps the inhabitants busy and entertained, so they won't be interested in the going ons of high-sec anymore.


This is happening and it has started with the industry changes but, more highsec nerfs are needed in order to fix sov.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#26 - 2014-04-24 22:01:58 UTC
Highsec is the "Helicopter Mom" / Overprotective parent of the regions. People who are raised by it, and are coddled by it their entire lives have no ability to cope with life outside of that cocoon.




Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-04-24 22:07:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Benny Ohu wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're suggesting the game be changed by CCP to fit how you feel it should be regardless of how it affects others desired game style.

no. especially considering how it affects carebears' desired game style


Which is not his place to deem as the defacto justification because the reality of the situation is, CCP has made this game in the image they see fit.

Because CCP has created High-sec to exist as it does, it's apparent that CCP wants it to exist as it does. Granted, a change to industry is being implemented, but that too is a change CCP has chosen to implement to better shape how they want the game to be. If CCP wanted concord mechanics changed, they'd have done it.

Now demanding the game be changed outside of the scope of what CCP has already created and fostered for 10 years is a selfish request echoed by the egotistical belief that his vision supercedes that of the people who's livelihood is at stake, CCP themselves.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-04-24 22:07:26 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Highsec is the "Helicopter Mom" / Overprotective parent of the regions. People who are raised by it, and are coddled by it their entire lives have no ability to cope with life outside of that cocoon.






I hadn't considered that perspective before but, I think you are on to something. I can remember a job or two ago an interviewer telling me that there was a candidate with better credentials but, that candidate brought their parents to the interview hence I got the job.

In EVE context newbies have their hand held so much that they cannot cope with meaningful loss to the point that it impacts their own experience of the game.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-04-24 22:08:46 UTC
Ugh... I wanted to go to bed early tonight...

Oh well, though I understand this is completely off-topic Twisted, I'll just say I don't mind people staying in highsec if they're so inclined, funding my game with their subs, manufacturing stuff I use (until Summer expansion of course Lol), etc... as long as they're never 100% safe, because that would destroy the game.

Sane people that get bored of highsec will 'just say no' and move to low/null/WH.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#30 - 2014-04-24 22:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Unsuccessful At Everything
La Nariz wrote:
I hadn't considered that perspective before but, I think you are on to something. I can remember a job or two ago an interviewer telling me that there was a candidate with better credentials but, that candidate brought their parents to the interview hence I got the job.

In EVE context newbies have their hand held so much that they cannot cope with meaningful loss to the point that it impacts their own experience of the game.


Here are some things that are paralleled between Helicopter Parenting and Highsec:

Quote:
1. Need for control: Moms and Dads can't control Bin Laden. They have no control over the pedophiles or the kidnappers they read about in the paper. They can, however, control how their children spend their time and of course, with whom.

2.Bigger, Better, Faster: Children who are learning skills are usually slower and less adept than their parents. Therefore, it's not surprising for parents to feel that "It will be faster, bigger, bolder, and just plain better if I take charge."

3. Fear the failure: These Moms and Dads can not stand by and watch their child feel inadequate, unprepared, or miserable in any way. It is too heartbreaking. They believe that it's their job to shield their child from these negative emotions.

4. Desire to live vicariously: These Moms and Dads spend their time doing a large amount of their child's work and looking for acceptance and approval for their own performance. They get personally invested in every aspect of every activity their child engages in and take it to heart when their child fails.

5. Entitlement: These parents are constantly checking to see how you are treating their child in comparison to others. They keep their eyes on everyone else's plate. They believe that their child should get more of your time, additional energy from your staff, and lots of free "extras." If it will help their child, they will ask for it.

6. Need to keep them young: Some Moms and Dads are saddened by the idea of their children maturing and needing them less. When children are dependent on their parents, parents can feel needed and wanted.


Now if we apply these to Eve:

Quote:
1. Need for control: CCP BAN ALL GANKERS, SCAMMERS, BAITERS, GREIFERS, WARDECCERS, MEAN PEOPLE.

2.Bigger, Better, Faster: Its never good enough, make it better CCP.

3. Fear the failure: But without 120mil SP I cant possibly be suited for life outside highsec!

4. Desire to live vicariously: Why go and take part in large fights, when our nullsec wing will regale us with the tales.

5. Entitlement: Self explanatory.

6. Want to be protected as if a brand new player regardless of age.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-04-24 22:13:05 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
I hadn't considered that perspective before but, I think you are on to something. I can remember a job or two ago an interviewer telling me that there was a candidate with better credentials but, that candidate brought their parents to the interview hence I got the job.

In EVE context newbies have their hand held so much that they cannot cope with meaningful loss to the point that it impacts their own experience of the game.


Here are some things that are paralleled between Helicopter Parenting and Highsec:

Quote:
1. Need for control: Moms and Dads can't control Bin Laden. They have no control over the pedophiles or the kidnappers they read about in the paper. They can, however, control how their children spend their time and of course, with whom.

2.Bigger, Better, Faster: Children who are learning skills are usually slower and less adept than their parents. Therefore, it's not surprising for parents to feel that "It will be faster, bigger, bolder, and just plain better if I take charge."

3. Fear the failure: These Moms and Dads can not stand by and watch their child feel inadequate, unprepared, or miserable in any way. It is too heartbreaking. They believe that it's their job to shield their child from these negative emotions.

4. Desire to live vicariously: These Moms and Dads spend their time doing a large amount of their child's work and looking for acceptance and approval for their own performance. They get personally invested in every aspect of every activity their child engages in and take it to heart when their child fails.

5. Entitlement: These parents are constantly checking to see how you are treating their child in comparison to others. They keep their eyes on everyone else's plate. They believe that their child should get more of your time, additional energy from your staff, and lots of free "extras." If it will help their child, they will ask for it.

6. Need to keep them young: Some Moms and Dads are saddened by the idea of their children maturing and needing them less. When children are dependent on their parents, parents can feel needed and wanted.




Wow that's literally highsec.txt and before the naysayers claim it isn't relevant there are plenty of peer reviewed articles full of good science showing that helicopter parenting is bad. This further solidifies that highsec must be nerfed.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-04-24 22:13:36 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're suggesting the game be changed by CCP to fit how you feel it should be regardless of how it affects others desired game style.

no. especially considering how it affects carebears' desired game style


Which is not his place to deem as the defacto justification because the reality of the situation is, CCP has made this game in the image they see fit.

fortunately ccp are moving towards correcting the many failings in their complete cockup of an mmo

highsec's clock is ticking
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-04-24 22:17:38 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're suggesting the game be changed by CCP to fit how you feel it should be regardless of how it affects others desired game style.

no. especially considering how it affects carebears' desired game style


Which is not his place to deem as the defacto justification because the reality of the situation is, CCP has made this game in the image they see fit.

fortunately ccp are moving towards correcting the many failings in their complete cockup of an mmo

highsec's clock is ticking


The industry changes are a very good start and indicator of how things are going to go. The sooner highsec is nerfed the better the results.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#34 - 2014-04-24 22:18:32 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Highsec is the "Helicopter Mom" / Overprotective parent of the regions. People who are raised by it, and are coddled by it their entire lives have no ability to cope with life outside of that cocoon.






No truer words have been spoken on these forums.

When I started in 2007 I started as a mission runner. I knew nothing about low sec other than what I heard: 'you need a bunch of skill points to survive out there so don't rush it'.

I ran missions that 1st year, even joined a carbearing corp. The sum total of my pvping was me jumping into low sec in a rifter looking for a fight and getting blown up by a Brutix (the pilot gave my stuff back), and a short roam with a corp mate and his BoB friends (got blown up by IRC there, saw my 1st Carrier too).

The faction warfare started and I joined that. Did that for a few months and went with a FW corp mate to null (syndicate) in his newly formed alliance. Had SO much fun, made some good isk and felt like KICKING myself for listening to risk averse carebears who convinced my dumb newbie ass to not jump into the good stuff early on.

That's what high sec (and too many permenent high sec residents) do, they make you beleive that getting a ship blown up is the end of the world. The other parts of space teach you that ships are jsut tools to be used in the pursuit of fun.
Ding Bang Oww
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-04-24 22:28:00 UTC
Yeah except that without high-sec there is no game for people who want to play solo or are just generally bad... I've never come out of low-sec or null-sec with more ISK than I went in with.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-04-24 22:29:46 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The industry changes are a very good start and indicator of how things are going to go. The sooner highsec is nerfed the better the results.

looks like delivering improvements to the system and balancing at the same time is the best way to do it, the best way to please as many players as possible

mission/anom/incursion balancing could go the same route. there's a lot in pve that could be make more fun

hopefully mining can be completely overhauled
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#37 - 2014-04-24 22:29:52 UTC
Ding Bang Oww wrote:
Yeah except that without high-sec there is no game for people who want to play solo or are just generally bad... I've never come out of low-sec or null-sec with more ISK than I went in with.


People who want to play solo should not play a massively multiplayer online role-playing game.



Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-04-24 22:31:23 UTC
Ding Bang Oww wrote:
Yeah except that without high-sec there is no game for people who want to play solo or are just generally bad... I've never come out of low-sec or null-sec with more ISK than I went in with.


First and foremost its an MMO, M meaning multiplayer. Second there is plenty of solo things to be done outside of highsec. For example if you really like PVE you can day trip in a C3 for pretty good rewards. Solo pvp exists as well just don't emulate me and be terrible at it.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#39 - 2014-04-24 22:32:29 UTC
Remove highsec? And remove all those juicy targets?

Definitely -1 from me.

Bacon makes us stronger
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-04-24 22:33:01 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
I hadn't considered that perspective before but, I think you are on to something. I can remember a job or two ago an interviewer telling me that there was a candidate with better credentials but, that candidate brought their parents to the interview hence I got the job.

In EVE context newbies have their hand held so much that they cannot cope with meaningful loss to the point that it impacts their own experience of the game.


Here are some things that are paralleled between Helicopter Parenting and Highsec:

Quote:
1. Need for control: Moms and Dads can't control Bin Laden. They have no control over the pedophiles or the kidnappers they read about in the paper. They can, however, control how their children spend their time and of course, with whom.

2.Bigger, Better, Faster: Children who are learning skills are usually slower and less adept than their parents. Therefore, it's not surprising for parents to feel that "It will be faster, bigger, bolder, and just plain better if I take charge."

3. Fear the failure: These Moms and Dads can not stand by and watch their child feel inadequate, unprepared, or miserable in any way. It is too heartbreaking. They believe that it's their job to shield their child from these negative emotions.

4. Desire to live vicariously: These Moms and Dads spend their time doing a large amount of their child's work and looking for acceptance and approval for their own performance. They get personally invested in every aspect of every activity their child engages in and take it to heart when their child fails.

5. Entitlement: These parents are constantly checking to see how you are treating their child in comparison to others. They keep their eyes on everyone else's plate. They believe that their child should get more of your time, additional energy from your staff, and lots of free "extras." If it will help their child, they will ask for it.

6. Need to keep them young: Some Moms and Dads are saddened by the idea of their children maturing and needing them less. When children are dependent on their parents, parents can feel needed and wanted.


Now if we apply these to Eve:

Quote:
1. Need for control: CCP BAN ALL GANKERS, SCAMMERS, BAITERS, GREIFERS, WARDECCERS, MEAN PEOPLE.

2.Bigger, Better, Faster: Its never good enough, make it better CCP.

3. Fear the failure: But without 120mil SP I cant possibly be suited for life outside highsec!

4. Desire to live vicariously: Why go and take part in large fights, when our nullsec wing will regale us with the tales.

5. Entitlement: Self explanatory.

6. Want to be protected as if a brand new player regardless of age.


I agree, helicopter parenting applies directly to people who cry "nerf highsec"

1. Need for control: make war declarations immediate so I can kill people without concord intervention faster!

2. Bigger, better, faster: It's never good enough, make it better CCP

3. Fear the failure: But if Concord is going to show up and destroy my ship for attacking a miner, it de-incentivizes my desire to act how I wish!

4. Desire to live vicariously: Concord should not exist because I'm tired of them showing up and killing my ship after I attack someone!

5. Entitlement: Self explanatory(their thinking their desire of how things should be taking precedence over others).

6. Wanting to attack people whom CCP have gone out of their way to implement systems to deter aggression against.


Works both ways really, it just depends which side of the fence your on.

The goal though is to try to not be a hypocrite.