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What would the reaction be if...

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Ren Coursa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-04-23 10:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lothros Andastar wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

The "old code" as you put it is literally untouchable. Not in a stupid tumblrena literally but a Oxford English Dictionary literally. Noone still working at CCP knows how that code works (and some parts they don't even have the source code for anymore) and they cannot touch it without risking breaking EVERYTHING. It would need a complete rewrite from scratch, and then everything that ever referenced it would also need a from scratch rewrite.

Considering they just wrote off MILLIONS of dollars because of the stupidity that was WOD, don't expect them to be able to pump any money into that monumental task right now, since it would (again, OED) literally mean rewriting 10+ years of Python garbage from scratch.

*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. the server code is single threaded. SINGLE. FREAKING. THREADED. And there is ZERO way to fix that without a complete rewrite and blood sacrifices to Níðhöggr.

It's like upgrading an old PC. You wanna add ram, so you need a new Mobo, which means a new PSU, which means a new GPU etc etc..


Yeah, so that's what i ment with not knowing the specifics. Sounds like it is a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. At some point they will have to do it if they game is to survive, but doing it might kill the game.

Interesting.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#22 - 2014-04-23 10:48:07 UTC
Ren Coursa wrote:


Art departments also have alot of gruntwork they seem to be behind on, only releasing updated textures and shaders some ships at the time.
I get what you are aiming at however and people in the more creative, conceptual positions would be sort of screwed i guess.
I've noticed a bit of stuff go in the past year or two. They have done a lot of shader work. Tweaking of effects. Work on the gate transitions. There is a lot to list that may be easily missed by many, the art and sound department has been busy from what I've seen. Though yes, much of it environmental effects and additions, but work on ship details takes a good amount of time too adding it all together.

If they let them go, they may not come back after finding new jobs etc. Then it's a lot of effort in finding and training (up to project speed) new talent, especially if from their Iceland office. When such a company starts shifting or shedding jobs, it's usually bad news and bad things come of it for a while.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Josef Djugashvilis
#23 - 2014-04-23 10:52:58 UTC
Ren Coursa wrote:
... CCP came out and said there would be no expansion or fanfest for a year and that they would divert all their efforts to rewriting old code and fixing bugs, no ui, no balancing, no new features etc?

From reading the forums i get the impression that people are sick and tired of all the promises and soon™, and that they (you) probably wouldnt care.

Problem is that forums are always, by their nature, filled with the vocal minority. How would this go over with the general player base you think?

Personally i wouldn't mind a year if it meant that future updates could be implemented faster and better due to a more up to date coding.
And as hyped as i get for fanfest i have been around long enough to get a feel for the vaporware promises ccp often give so again i wouldn't mind them focusing on something boring for a year anyways.
But i don't really know that much about coding in general and ccps specifically so i can't really speculate as to how much of a problem the old code is and what it would take to fix it.

Thoughts?


This something I have long wanted.

Good solid foundations to build on.

This is not a signature.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-04-23 12:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Doireen Kaundur wrote:


It did come after the door.

Station hanger was taken away. Only CQ avaialble was Minmitar. If you didnt want the load time (or fried GPU) you had the option to turn off CQ but were faced with a "door."


Followed by "greed-is-good" and $70 worthless bling in the NeX.

It was a powder keg waiting to go off.



Eh, You're right ofc.

Still, it was clear from the beginning that the CQ and subsequently WiS was a work in progress and that there would be more features and more locations when the minnie quarters were released.

People initially protested against the NeX Store and Macro-payments and the pay to win gold ammo that supposedly lurked just behind the figurative next corner. Some assholes just managed to hijack the protests to turn them against the entire WiS concept.

For whatever reason. Roll

All further work on WiS and THE DOOR was stopped because of the protests. Straight

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#25 - 2014-04-23 12:58:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.


With that being said it would be nice to finally get see full potential of Eve unleashed.

Invalid signature format
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#26 - 2014-04-23 13:01:03 UTC
There isn't going to be an EvE 2.

Get over it.

Big smileRollPirate

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#27 - 2014-04-23 13:02:33 UTC
1.0 would be nice too

Invalid signature format
Ren Coursa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-04-23 13:47:28 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
There isn't going to be an EvE 2.

Get over it.

Big smileRollPirate


There is going to have to be if ccp wants to stay in business past a certain point. (nope, not a stealth eve is dying post, just a very real observation that **** might not be able to depend on old coding forever when we already have features ccp wants to do but can't due to crap code. Try to imagine building features for another ten years on that base. I for one can't.)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#29 - 2014-04-23 15:37:39 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
*sips tea*

*sips the whole cup of tea*


**8:37 AM PST morning scotch to hell with it

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Doireen Kaundur
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-04-23 15:39:11 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
*sips tea*

*sips the whole cup of tea*


**8:37 AM PST morning scotch to hell with it



Read that too fast and saw "morning crotch scratch, go to hell." Big smile

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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#31 - 2014-04-23 16:14:15 UTC
Ren Coursa wrote:
... CCP came out and said there would be no expansion or fanfest for a year and that they would divert all their efforts to rewriting old code and fixing bugs, no ui, no balancing, no new features etc?

From reading the forums i get the impression that people are sick and tired of all the promises and soon™, and that they (you) probably wouldnt care.

Problem is that forums are always, by their nature, filled with the vocal minority. How would this go over with the general player base you think?

Personally i wouldn't mind a year if it meant that future updates could be implemented faster and better due to a more up to date coding.
And as hyped as i get for fanfest i have been around long enough to get a feel for the vaporware promises ccp often give so again i wouldn't mind them focusing on something boring for a year anyways.
But i don't really know that much about coding in general and ccps specifically so i can't really speculate as to how much of a problem the old code is and what it would take to fix it.

Thoughts?



Isn't that what we've been doing for the last 3 years? Bug fixing and balancing and adding some new ships and modules are not "Expansions".

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#32 - 2014-04-23 16:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lothros Andastar wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.[/i]

The "old code" as you put it is literally untouchable. Not in a stupid tumblrena literally but a Oxford English Dictionary literally. Noone still working at CCP knows how that code works (and some parts they don't even have the source code for anymore) and they cannot touch it without risking breaking EVERYTHING. It would need a complete rewrite from scratch, and then everything that ever referenced it would also need a from scratch rewrite.

Considering they just wrote off MILLIONS of dollars because of the stupidity that was WOD, don't expect them to be able to pump any money into that monumental task right now, since it would (again, OED) literally mean rewriting 10+ years of Python garbage from scratch.

*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. the server code is single threaded. SINGLE. FREAKING. THREADED. And there is ZERO way to fix that without a complete rewrite and blood sacrifices to Níðhöggr.

It's like upgrading an old PC. You wanna add ram, so you need a new Mobo, which means a new PSU, which means a new GPU etc etc..



To add to this, if I was CCP, after the summer of rage and the jita riots, when they did that big shuffle of personal, I would of setup a team, that was not working on eve. It would of been working on EvE 2.0. While this team was doing that, the rest would of been working to bridge the gap between eve now, and eve 2.0. And all EvE 2.0 would of been was a complete rewrite of the old code, form scratch. I would of figured out how many years this would take, and put everyone on it I could, then do the bare min of updates and fixes to keep the players happy. Then on the launch of the 5 year vision, I would of started doing things to make eve set for the rewritten code. So when we get the star gate expansion, that would of been a complete eve rewrite, and relaunch. Just no one would of known it.

That's how I would of handled it. Otherwise you do what they are doing now, untangling old code, fixing it as you go and putting it back. EVENTUALLY they will fix it all, but then they will need to refix it again. its a never ending cycle.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#33 - 2014-04-23 16:20:23 UTC
Doireen Kaundur wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
*sips tea*

*sips the whole cup of tea*


**8:37 AM PST morning scotch to hell with it



Read that too fast and saw "morning crotch scratch, go to hell." Big smile



That already happened

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-04-23 18:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
There should be no reaction.

It will be argued endlessly that the "content" is provided by the players, and CCP's development only provides the tools necessary for the players to create that "content".

If CCP said for 1 year, there would be no additions to the game, then the playerbase's reaction should be "OK" as they go about whatever it is they do that keeps them wanting to play the game.
Dominic karin
Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
#35 - 2014-04-23 19:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominic karin
Can't speak for anyone else but I personally wouldn't have a problem with this, balancing passes could continue as per usual since that's mostly database changes while the devs work on fixing the infrastructure code.

I would look at this as them doing two consecutive Crucibals in a row. Lots of core rewrites and bug fixes with some balance and UI improvements sprinkled on top.

I'm all for it.

Right now I'm more interested in a more functional Eve than an Eve with more lights that flicker.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-04-23 20:07:09 UTC
no changes means nothing will be wrecked. I'm not sure I would care. I like new things but I don't need them to like EVE.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-04-23 21:37:03 UTC
i don't actually remember when it was last time i used expansion stuff. Yes, i always read patch notes. And sometime i think 'cool!'.

But actually.... I think i could live without 'expansions' like Rubicon.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-04-23 22:04:21 UTC
Well I mean if they dont get our hopes up in the first place then they can't really disappoint us right?


....Right?

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#39 - 2014-04-23 22:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed off topic part of the post. ISD Ezwal.

So answer to your question ... No. Because how do you know things would be much better after 1, 2 ... 3 years?


A better approach is:
- make sure you have good coding, naming and documentation standards
- use some peer reviews to make sure code is being developed and implemented properly
- look for opportunities to clean up relevant code when you implement a new feature - don't just band-aid everything
- try to keep some continuity on the developer staff so devs don't mangle code just because they don't understand it


Finally, while I may disagree with some of CCP's game design, I'm frequently impressed with how well the programming details of Eve work (excepting TIDI of course).
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#40 - 2014-04-23 23:04:41 UTC
Ren Coursa wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
There isn't going to be an EvE 2.

Get over it.

Big smileRollPirate


There is going to have to be if ccp wants to stay in business past a certain point. (nope, not a stealth eve is dying post, just a very real observation that **** might not be able to depend on old coding forever when we already have features ccp wants to do but can't due to crap code. Try to imagine building features for another ten years on that base. I for one can't.)

Why? There are still Text MUD's running after 20+ years (grandfather of MMO's), still running on paid subscriptions, still constantly upgrading/rewriting code. CCP has been doing the same with their in-house engine, what, is this suddenly going to stop for the next 10 years?

Often why a V2.0 or V3.0 comes along for most games isn't because of code, but often because those games kinda died out and they want to inject an newer version of the game into the hype market to sell copies and draw back lost subscribers, at least until it dies again in which they start working on yet another one.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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