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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW plex mechanic discussion
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#81 - 2014-04-30 21:28:07 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
stuff...

I think the real question you should ask is: "Who is going to travel to these backwater systems and chase cloaky afk plexing alts?

I'm not. You're not. Cearain has stated previously that he won't.

Who exactly is going to this (very boring) dirty work to keep the backwater systems safe from the afk plexing hordes?



Cearain has previously calculated that it will only take 10ish people to control the entire warzone under his new regime.

DO YOUR PART!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#82 - 2014-04-30 21:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain has previously calculated that it will only take 10ish people to control the entire warzone under his new regime. DO YOUR PART!
Who are these 10 people?
o Val Erian
o Ramad Noinacor
o Deacon Abox
o Planet One
o Hatgris
o .... I'm out of names.

Looks like we'll be able to control half the warzone - for two hours a day.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#83 - 2014-04-30 21:50:43 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I am not sure what these 4 people would try to accomplish.


Disinformation/reduces the ability of the opposing militia from being able to determine which is a real threat or just spam.



Cearain wrote:
I guess if the enemy militia wanted to waste their time doing this that would be their prerogative but they would lose the war. Meanwhile militia that would have pilots holding plexes would win.


The only way they are going to lose the war is if they stop caring about their home systems.

Cearain wrote:
Also keep in mind that ccp was talking about giving this intel in the form of a map not really notifications. So this behavior would really accomplish nothing.


If it is map form are they going to like the stats that lite up on the map? Such as ships killed in the last hour. The whole warzone will glow red. Those kind of stats will be somewhat useless since a plex only takes like 15 minutes. You are only going to catch them if they stay in a system for almost an hour. If it is “blips” on the map when a plex is starting to be run the same tactic I showed earlier would create the same disinformation and turn the map into a Led Zeppelin laser light show.

Estella Osoka wrote:
Players soon learn to ignor the notifications, and then the whole concept is moot.


And everyone will go back the system currently is use of having intel channels.


Estella should make up her mind whether this will cause easy pvp or whether it will have no effect.

I don't think anything you suggest is really likely to happen. No one wants to go chase people to save 90% of the systems now. I don't think anyone will want to waste their time giving false information about the 90% of systems.

In any case the issue you raise is completely inapplicable if ccp just has a map that includes this intel.

CCP indicated that this intel would be part of a larger intel project they were working on. They didn't give much as far as details and I am not sure if it was abandoned.

But the idea is that we would have pretty much real time infomation as to what complexes are under attack. That way we can respond to actually defend the military complex before it is lost. You are right that just telling us when there has been plexing activity in the last hour would be useless.


XG and Crosi

If ccp implemented the changes I suggest i would be back in faction war immediately. Many other people would have renewed interest. No one cares now because we do not have the mechanics to deal with massive numbers of alts running plexes.

Even when war zone control offered no rewards I and some others played the game hoping to gain territory for the fun of it. Although it got old because again it was still mainly a pve activity. But now the massive alt invasion that merely runs away from every fight to hide and plex somewhere else has sucked all the fun out of it.

Just because you might not care about more than blobbing a single "home system," that doesn't mean you need to shout down everyone who else would like more out of faction war.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#84 - 2014-04-30 21:52:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Im right, you are all wrong


We get it, you are right, we are all wrong. All of us. However unlikely that seems.
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#85 - 2014-04-30 22:31:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
If ccp implemented the changes I suggest i would be back in faction war immediately.


I've read enough.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#86 - 2014-04-30 23:18:10 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If ccp implemented the changes I suggest i would be back in faction war immediately.


I've read enough.


The only change that I suggested here that wasn't previously suggested by other players was that alt boosters wouldn't work in plexes unless the alt booster was in the plex as well.

Many other people have suggested that these alt boosters should be on grid all the time. Many people agreed with that, but surely as time goes on more and more such people will simply lose interest in the game. So my suggestion is the same as theirs but if ccp doesn't want to make a drastic change all at once it would be great if they would at least give casual pvpers some respite from them in plexes. Really I would much rather they need to be on grid all the time. So even there I am not posting anything new.

The other 2 changes I proposed were made by other players. And they were also supported by other players. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I find the current fw system fairly demotivating. But I am not alone.

But here we go again. You can't actually think about the idea and give any sort of constructive feedback regarding the idea. Instead you just try say something like Cearain is selfish therefore everyone should ignore his ideas. That's called an ad hominem and its not really a rational way to look at the world.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Im right, you are all wrong


We get it, you are right, we are all wrong. All of us. However unlikely that seems.



I am not sure who "all of us" are. CCP and several people proposed better intel. Plenty of people have seen the need for it since faction war started.

But again why not just tell us what is wrong with the idea. And after I give a response instead of saying "Nobody agrees with you so you must be wrong" why not think about the response regarding the proposal instead of attacking the person.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#87 - 2014-04-30 23:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Cearain wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If ccp implemented the changes I suggest i would be back in faction war immediately.


I've read enough.


The only change that I suggested here that wasn't previously suggested by other players was that alt boosters wouldn't work in plexes unless the alt booster was in the plex as well.

Many other people have suggested that these alt boosters should be on grid all the time. Many people agreed with that, but surely as time goes on more and more such people will simply lose interest in the game. So my suggestion is the same as theirs but if ccp doesn't want to make a drastic change all at once it would be great if they would at least give casual pvpers some respite from them in plexes. Really I would much rather they need to be on grid all the time. So even there I am not posting anything new.

The other 2 changes I proposed were made by other players. And they were also supported by other players. Sorry if you don't like the fact that I find the current fw system fairly demotivating. But I am not alone.

But here we go again. You can't actually think about the idea and give any sort of constructive feedback regarding the idea. Instead you just try say something like Cearain is selfish therefore everyone should ignore his ideas. That's called an ad hominem and its not really a rational way to look at the world.

Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Im right, you are all wrong


We get it, you are right, we are all wrong. All of us. However unlikely that seems.



I am not sure who "all of us" are. CCP and several people proposed better intel. Plenty of people have seen the need for it since faction war started.

But again why not just tell us what is wrong with the idea. And after I give a response instead of saying "Nobody agrees with you so you must be wrong" why not think about the response regarding the proposal instead of attacking the person.


Ive said a dozen times why its a bad proposal.

Its a bad proposal because it doesnt fix any current problem.

Feel free to go ahead make up spurious problems that it would fix or at the very least ignore it, as is your way.

No one but you has any trouble finding action fast. No one but you care about who is plexing Uuna.

You have made your point, it was a bad one. could you please shut the **** up lol.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#88 - 2014-05-02 09:21:45 UTC
CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#89 - 2014-05-02 09:53:33 UTC
Zappity wrote:
CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.


So sad if this is all CCP can do for eve.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#90 - 2014-05-02 14:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Zappity wrote:
CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.

Surprised as well. Thought they'd tackle 0.0 Sov before coming back to FW.

Bad Messenger wrote:
So sad if this is all CCP can do for eve.
Agreed.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#91 - 2014-05-02 14:58:11 UTC
Zappity wrote:
CCP had Faction Warfare second on the list of things that they have been working on in the Game Design Panel. Apparently these things are "either in production or being thought of currently". The list was:

- Industry
- Factional Warfare
- Ship balancing
- Module balancing
- Exploration - Scattering mechanic
- New Player Experience
- Starmap
- Camera/Scanner

I'm surprised. I thought CCP had forgotten all about FW apart from as an ISK sink.



Thanks for the information Zappity. I am not surprised that they see faction warfare as a priority. It seems to me it has allot of untapped potential.

I wonder what "Starmap" means. When they last spoke about fw they indicated that we might bet some better intel through some mapping changes that they were doing on the whole. I wonder if that is what they were getting at.

If they do give plex intel as well rollbacks fw will be in a much better place.

Having ogb links not work in plexes might just be a dream but why not dream big.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#92 - 2014-05-02 20:30:39 UTC
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.

Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2014-05-02 20:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Andre Vauban
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.



The new change won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.

.
SmokinJs Arthie
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#94 - 2014-05-02 20:43:29 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.



The new change, won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.


Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-05-02 20:59:12 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.



The new change, won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.


Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.


I don't AFK d-plex with a cloak anyway. The cloaking device is too expensive (2-3x the cost of the ship w/ stabs). Just sit there AFK with max sound, wait for a locking sound, warp off, then give a friendly "GF" in local. That way you can keep warping into them and out to keep them busy while you fly your main over to kill them.

.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#96 - 2014-05-02 21:13:35 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.



The new change, won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.


Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.


I don't AFK d-plex with a cloak anyway. The cloaking device is too expensive (2-3x the cost of the ship w/ stabs). Just sit there AFK with max sound, wait for a locking sound, warp off, then give a friendly "GF" in local. That way you can keep warping into them and out to keep them busy while you fly your main over to kill them.
Slows down bots.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#97 - 2014-05-02 23:09:36 UTC
large plex's bout god damn time. this better be a battleship sized plex.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#98 - 2014-05-03 06:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Andre Vauban wrote:




The new change won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.



also stops us hunting them in cloakys too ;(
cearain wrote:


wonder what "Starmap" means. When they last spoke about fw they indicated that we might bet some better intel through some mapping changes that they were doing on the whole. I wonder if that is what they were getting at.
quota


No cearain the starmap is a seperate point from fw just like the others so dont think itll be intel that would just fall under the fw point,

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#99 - 2014-05-03 06:58:11 UTC
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.



The new change, won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.


Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.


i do not know why you want to nerf cloakky ships in a plex? maybe you farmer alt got ganked too often by cloakky ship?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#100 - 2014-05-03 14:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Bad Messenger wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
SmokinJs Arthie wrote:
There are some changes coming with the summer expansion. At the FW roundtable Fozzie revealed changes coming in the Summer Expansion.

-Cannot cloak within capture radius of the button.
-Rats will respawn so you'll need a DPS ship to plex.
-Large Outposts being introduced (standard plex spawn rather than random)

I am a fan of the no cloaking withing plexes as the new T2 cov-ops venture, the Prospect, would get annoying very fast.



The new change, won't do anything at all. Here are the easy steps. Sit right at the edge of capture radius and aligned away from button. When you see something on short scan, move full speed ahead, and then cloak. Problem solved. This will take farmers all of an additional 10 seconds.


Yeah, it's a step in the right direction. I was kinda hoping the would make the decloaking area larger then the capture point, say like 45km. At least they will still have to be fairly attentive in their efforts.


i do not know why you want to nerf cloakky ships in a plex? maybe you farmer alt got ganked too often by cloakky ship?


I still cant think of a downside to the timer not responding to any ship that has a cloak or stabs fitted.

Doesnt stop covert and bait tactics.
Stops evasion tactics.

Fringe cases of people plexing in recons who would be inconvenienced. But those people would be better off having bait run the timer anyway.

Seems like it would be easy to implement.

+ timer rollbacks. Obviously.



Wouldnt fix farming, but it would certainly make evasion farming much less passive and at the same time not inconvenience anyone else with more NPC's.