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[Summer 2014] Links Still Dreadful

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Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#1 - 2014-04-23 04:53:20 UTC
CCP: Please, for the love of all things great in this world, fix links.

They are horribly broken, whilst simultaneously miserable, dreadful, and boring.

On grid booster works, massive reduction in effectiveness works, quite literally anything other than what we must endure presently works.


Please, CCP, fix links. Bring solo back. Bring fun back.
Gigan Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-04-23 05:26:29 UTC
They are planning to move links on grid at some point. I think it was at the last "EvE Down Under" that Fozzie mentioned some piece of coding that they were working on to help move things in that direction. It's been awhile, but I remember it coming up in the stream.

Honestly, links would be fine if they were placed on grid, and maybe we could get a new destroyer class or something to help bring links into small gang. Perhaps some small tweaks to their strength would be needed, but probably not a lot. Why passive boosts that do not require the booster to be on grid were ever implemented in the first place is kind of beyond me...but I like to think of things in a "do it right the first time" perspective, and hindsight is always 20/20. So whatever.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#3 - 2014-04-23 05:28:54 UTC
Here's my suggestion for improving links:

Introduce a minimum number of pilots required to receive links. Say... 50% capacity. e.g.

  • a squad booster will only provide boosts if there are 5 or more people in that squad
  • a wing booster will only provide boosts if every squad in that wing has 5 or more people in it
  • a fleet booster will only provide boosts if every squad in every wing in that fleet has 5 or more people in it

    • This does not scale as requiring 5, 25, 128 pilots because not every wing will have 5 squads and not every fleet will have 5 wings. It prevents people from using 3 layers of booster to benefit 2 people, but does not nerf small/medium gangs or large fleets.

    Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #4 - 2014-04-23 05:50:48 UTC
    At least one sitting CSM member has expressed that the only reason off grid boosting is allowed to exist at all is because they can't figure out how to code it to not screw up several other things alongside it.

    Same thing as the POS problem, basically.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Gypsio III
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #5 - 2014-04-23 09:18:43 UTC
    The ongrid/offgrid thing is a smokescreen, links are hugely overpowered wherever they are.
    Alvatore DiMarco
    Capricious Endeavours Ltd
    #6 - 2014-04-23 11:02:27 UTC
    Gypsio III wrote:
    The ongrid/offgrid thing is a smokescreen, links are hugely overpowered wherever they are.


    They're somewhat less overpowered when they're on-grid and can be primaried off the field.
    Nevyn Auscent
    Broke Sauce
    #7 - 2014-04-23 11:43:40 UTC
    Gigan Amilupar wrote:
    They are planning to move links on grid at some point. I think it was at the last "EvE Down Under" that Fozzie mentioned some piece of coding that they were working on to help move things in that direction. It's been awhile, but I remember it coming up in the stream.

    Honestly, links would be fine if they were placed on grid, and maybe we could get a new destroyer class or something to help bring links into small gang. Perhaps some small tweaks to their strength would be needed, but probably not a lot. Why passive boosts that do not require the booster to be on grid were ever implemented in the first place is kind of beyond me...but I like to think of things in a "do it right the first time" perspective, and hindsight is always 20/20. So whatever.

    You can make a T3 warp as fast and be as agile as a destroyer. I'm not convinced you 'need' a destroyer for small gangs when you can be quite viable with a T3 (Even a CS can be made almost as fast & agile).
    Yes you sacrifice tank & DPS to do so, but you aren't going to get max tank & DPS of a CS on a destroyer sized alternative either.
    It seems simply to be asked for in order to make links cheap.
    Gigan Amilupar
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #8 - 2014-04-23 19:39:40 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    Gigan Amilupar wrote:
    They are planning to move links on grid at some point. I think it was at the last "EvE Down Under" that Fozzie mentioned some piece of coding that they were working on to help move things in that direction. It's been awhile, but I remember it coming up in the stream.

    Honestly, links would be fine if they were placed on grid, and maybe we could get a new destroyer class or something to help bring links into small gang. Perhaps some small tweaks to their strength would be needed, but probably not a lot. Why passive boosts that do not require the booster to be on grid were ever implemented in the first place is kind of beyond me...but I like to think of things in a "do it right the first time" perspective, and hindsight is always 20/20. So whatever.

    You can make a T3 warp as fast and be as agile as a destroyer. I'm not convinced you 'need' a destroyer for small gangs when you can be quite viable with a T3 (Even a CS can be made almost as fast & agile).
    Yes you sacrifice tank & DPS to do so, but you aren't going to get max tank & DPS of a CS on a destroyer sized alternative either.
    It seems simply to be asked for in order to make links cheap.


    Yes but T3's can only enter into large plexes in FW space. A destroyer could enter into anything other then novice plexes...which I think is reasonable, though I'm sure one could debate where exactly links should be allowed. Restricting links to T3's and command ships while requiring them to be on grid would make them unable to be used in the majority of FW fighting/piracy. So while I see your point, I don't think the strength of T3's is enough of a reason to deter a small-gang (or micro-gang, as Ripard Teg would call it) alternative.
    Carmen Electra
    AlcoDOTTE
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #9 - 2014-04-23 21:33:33 UTC
    We just bring our own links. Problem solved?

    Links are fine the way they are.

    Bacon makes us stronger
    Hopelesshobo
    Hoboland
    #10 - 2014-04-24 00:21:16 UTC
    In the aspect of bringing links on grid in PVE, the primary use for links is incursions. Forcing links on grid will be fine for HQs and VGs, however assaults will be penalized even further because of the split in NCNs, thereby letting them be even less popular.

    Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
    Nevyn Auscent
    Broke Sauce
    #11 - 2014-04-24 00:41:32 UTC
    Hopelesshobo wrote:
    In the aspect of bringing links on grid in PVE, the primary use for links is incursions. Forcing links on grid will be fine for HQs and VGs, however assaults will be penalized even further because of the split in NCNs, thereby letting them be even less popular.

    People still run assaults? I thought they had outright died. Yes the split means links become harder, but CS can also do decent DPS while on grid now. Not like before, so they aren't entirely terrible.
    Viribus
    Bayraktar Warlord
    Aurora. Australis
    #12 - 2014-04-24 01:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
    they should just remove the mechanic of fleet bonuses from the game and refund leadership SP. It's a fundamentally stupid, passive gameplay element that, no matter how it's implemented, favours alts and blobs

    but CCP has this dumb policy of not un-ringing bells so we're stuck with it

    Maybe they could just make the bonus very small

    watch me be a scurb and get owned
    Hopelesshobo
    Hoboland
    #13 - 2014-04-24 01:45:08 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    Hopelesshobo wrote:
    In the aspect of bringing links on grid in PVE, the primary use for links is incursions. Forcing links on grid will be fine for HQs and VGs, however assaults will be penalized even further because of the split in NCNs, thereby letting them be even less popular.

    People still run assaults? I thought they had outright died. Yes the split means links become harder, but CS can also do decent DPS while on grid now. Not like before, so they aren't entirely terrible.


    There's still feint brain activity with assaults. I think the main reason why assaults just are not that great is primarily because of NCNs because of the balance factor required since NCNs are the ONLY site that requires DPS that isn't a battleship to run.

    But to bring links on grid would be another nail in the coffin for assaults specifically.

    Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
    Sepheir Sepheron
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #14 - 2014-04-24 02:37:19 UTC
    Carmen Electra wrote:
    We just bring our own links. Problem solved?

    Links are fine the way they are.


    Some people don't have money or time for two accounts.
    Nevyn Auscent
    Broke Sauce
    #15 - 2014-04-24 03:01:53 UTC
    Sepheir Sepheron wrote:

    Some people don't have money or time for two accounts.

    So bring an actual friend? They are allowed. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean you have no friends.
    Altrue
    Exploration Frontier inc
    Tactical-Retreat
    #16 - 2014-04-24 05:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
    Phaade wrote:

    On grid booster works, massive reduction in effectiveness works, quite literally anything other than what we must endure presently works.

    Please, CCP, fix links. Bring solo back. Bring fun back.


    Wha?

    You're aware that the only thing that allows for impressive solo pvp plays and videos is usually the use of links, right?

    Offgrid booster is the only thing that makes taking a fight outnumbered a minimum fesible. People are so risk averse that they wouldn't engage knowing that there is a booster somewhere, or they would just engage the booster... or solo pvpers would die way more often than they already do, and ultimately cease most of their activities.

    On-grid boosting? Sure! But off-grid boosting should still work for Squad Commanders or in fleets of less of 12 people. (11people = a squad commander and a full squad)

    Signature Tanking Best Tanking

    [Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

    Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
    Goldensaver
    Maraque Enterprises
    Just let it happen
    #17 - 2014-04-24 05:46:47 UTC
    Altrue wrote:
    Phaade wrote:

    On grid booster works, massive reduction in effectiveness works, quite literally anything other than what we must endure presently works.

    Please, CCP, fix links. Bring solo back. Bring fun back.


    Wha?

    You're aware that the only thing that allows for impressive solo pvp plays and videos is usually the use of links, right?

    Offgrid booster is the only thing that makes taking a fight outnumbered a minimum fesible. People are so risk averse that they wouldn't engage knowing that there is a booster somewhere, or they would just engage the booster... or solo pvpers would die way more often than they already do, and ultimately cease most of their activities.

    On-grid boosting? Sure! But off-grid boosting should still work for Squad Commanders or in fleets of less of 12 people. (11people = a squad commander and a full squad)

    You are aware that links aren't used by solo pilots, right?

    It's not solo if you've got two ships. You may not have two on grid, but the other is directly influencing the outcome of the fight. That's not solo.

    Solo. One. Alone. Nobody else. No help. No other ships. Nothing. OGB is the bane of solo play.

    If nothing else, I'd at least like them to put in a warning visual if someone's recieving OGBs. Better yet, I'd be fine if links had a cyno like effect, broadcasting the user's location to everyone in system. Then we might actually see some bloody solo.
    Phaade
    Know-Nothings
    Negative Feedback
    #18 - 2014-04-24 07:34:29 UTC
    Hopelesshobo wrote:
    In the aspect of bringing links on grid in PVE, the primary use for links is incursions. Forcing links on grid will be fine for HQs and VGs, however assaults will be penalized even further because of the split in NCNs, thereby letting them be even less popular.


    Tis a sad day when PvE negatively affects PvP.
    Phaade
    Know-Nothings
    Negative Feedback
    #19 - 2014-04-24 07:35:25 UTC
    Viribus wrote:
    they should just remove the mechanic of fleet bonuses from the game and refund leadership SP. It's a fundamentally stupid, passive gameplay element that, no matter how it's implemented, favours alts and blobs

    but CCP has this dumb policy of not un-ringing bells so we're stuck with it

    Maybe they could just make the bonus very small


    Couldn't agree more.
    Phaade
    Know-Nothings
    Negative Feedback
    #20 - 2014-04-24 07:36:49 UTC
    Nevyn Auscent wrote:
    Sepheir Sepheron wrote:

    Some people don't have money or time for two accounts.

    So bring an actual friend? They are allowed. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean you have no friends.


    You and your friend cannot simultaneously PvP with links, unless one of you has paid for a second account.

    Your "solution" is still fundamentally flawed.
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