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How do I shoot at multiple targets simultaneously
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Toophaqing Wasted
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-23 04:08:13 UTC
I have 2 railguns and 2 locked targets. How do I shoot at both targets simultaneously?
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#2 - 2014-04-23 04:12:20 UTC
You need to make sure you ungroup your weapons, select the first target, fire one weapon and then select the second and fire the second weapon. It won't be instant simultanious firing but its damn near close.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#3 - 2014-04-23 04:16:09 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
You need to make sure you ungroup your weapons, select the first target, fire one weapon and then select the second and fire the second weapon. It won't be instant simultanious firing but its damn near close.


This is correct. However, it's not usually strategically sound to do this unless you think you can one-volley each target.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Toophaqing Wasted
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-04-23 04:18:45 UTC
Thank you both for the replies.

Can I do this with 2 groups of weapons against 2 separate targets?
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#5 - 2014-04-23 04:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
You can indeed group weapons in multiples, hell you could have 4 groups of 2 if you really wanted to on the 8 weapon slot ships.

However as Sabriz aptly pointed out, this is not always the best thing to do unles you can one shot stuff.

There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).

As I said, its probably bad practice to do such a thing, but for me, it seems to work... Although I wouldn't advise it for a new player to do...

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Toophaqing Wasted
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-04-23 04:37:45 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
You can indeed group weapons in multiples, hell you could have 4 groups of 2 if you really wanted to on the 8 weapon slot ships.

However as Sabriz aptly pointed out, this is not always the best thing to do unles you can one shot stuff.

There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).

As I said, its probably bad practice to do such a thing, but for me, it seems to work... Although I wouldn't advise it for a new player to do...


Thank you, Seraph. I may have to rethink this idea. I'm still trying to get comfortable with the extreme multi-tasking requirements this game demands.

I don't know if I'm quite ready to take on the additional challenge of shooting at multiple targets at the same time. I was mostly interested in knowing if it was possible to do so and how to go about doing it.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#7 - 2014-04-23 04:43:57 UTC
Toophaqing Wasted wrote:
Seraph Essael wrote:
You can indeed group weapons in multiples, hell you could have 4 groups of 2 if you really wanted to on the 8 weapon slot ships.

However as Sabriz aptly pointed out, this is not always the best thing to do unles you can one shot stuff.

There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).

As I said, its probably bad practice to do such a thing, but for me, it seems to work... Although I wouldn't advise it for a new player to do...


Thank you, Seraph. I may have to rethink this idea. I'm still trying to get comfortable with the extreme multi-tasking requirements this game demands.

I don't know if I'm quite ready to take on the additional challenge of shooting at multiple targets at the same time. I was mostly interested in knowing if it was possible to do so and how to go about doing it.


For now, stick at shooting one target at once... Always lock multiple ships up, especially in PvP so you can switch targets intantly. But it is better to concentrate all fire power on the same target (the primary).

In PvE however, once you start getting your skills high enough its common for the ISK counters to split their weapons so they aren't firing off more shots than needed at a target and wasting ammo.

You'll eventually get the hang of it.

Another way to split your DPS, and I am seeing a lot more of this in small gang, lowsec PvP right now, is the FC calls the primary and all damage is placed on them, yet he calls for the drones to be placed on a different ship.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Toophaqing Wasted
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-04-23 05:07:37 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
Toophaqing Wasted wrote:
Seraph Essael wrote:
You can indeed group weapons in multiples, hell you could have 4 groups of 2 if you really wanted to on the 8 weapon slot ships.

However as Sabriz aptly pointed out, this is not always the best thing to do unles you can one shot stuff.

There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).

As I said, its probably bad practice to do such a thing, but for me, it seems to work... Although I wouldn't advise it for a new player to do...


Thank you, Seraph. I may have to rethink this idea. I'm still trying to get comfortable with the extreme multi-tasking requirements this game demands.

I don't know if I'm quite ready to take on the additional challenge of shooting at multiple targets at the same time. I was mostly interested in knowing if it was possible to do so and how to go about doing it.


For now, stick at shooting one target at once... Always lock multiple ships up, especially in PvP so you can switch targets intantly. But it is better to concentrate all fire power on the same target (the primary).

In PvE however, once you start getting your skills high enough its common for the ISK counters to split their weapons so they aren't firing off more shots than needed at a target and wasting ammo.

You'll eventually get the hang of it.

Another way to split your DPS, and I am seeing a lot more of this in small gang, lowsec PvP right now, is the FC calls the primary and all damage is placed on them, yet he calls for the drones to be placed on a different ship.


Mm, interesting tactic. I'll look into that further as soon as my Drone skills are at level V which will be in another 34 hours. :)

Thanks again for your help and the words of wisdom. Very much appreciated!
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-04-23 07:48:43 UTC
Back in my Alpha fleet days (Arti Maelstrom fleets), we would some times have to gorup our weapons into 2 because we would be overkilling so much it allowed us to kill almost twice as fast lol.

Also assign your drones to a frig and let him do the leg work....

No Worries
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#10 - 2014-04-23 08:42:39 UTC
Grouping and shooting one by one is always more effective then shooting multiple targets with multiple groups.
In ye olde days we didn't have a gun grouping at all so I amazed my buddies with my awesome skills of shooting rats by smashing f1-f8 simultaneously and thus mimicking the effect of grouping your guns ...

the original idea behind grouping is to reduce lag because a single group only takes a single calculation to hit that it also considerably increases damage output is more of a side effect.
if you shoot a rat with 8 different guns they are all counted separately for hit et c. and thus you in general end up doing less the by grouping those guns.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#11 - 2014-04-23 09:12:39 UTC
If you're going to split damage using drones make sure to set a memorable hotkey for engage and return & orbit*, I use pgup and pgdwn.

*Can be done via the escape menu, has it's own tab under shortcuts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#12 - 2014-04-23 10:54:50 UTC
Splitting damage with weapons of the same size isn't going hurt necessarily, but there's rarely any ADVANTAGE to be gained from it. The only thing that damage does is push enemies closer to death, there's not really any situation where just dealing part of the damage you can put out will help.

(And, if the enemies are healing/repping in any way, splitting your damage will actively hurt you, maybe even prevent you from killing either target at all.)
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-04-23 14:05:18 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).
I really don't see how doing 200 dps upfront and then 200 dps later while the first group reloads is better than doing 400 dps upfront followed by 0 during the reload. Only place where it could be helpful is if you apply webs & TPs later, which increases later damage but not upfront damage.

Anyway, the only ship on which I don't group all weapons is my Maelstrom and that's just because 1400mm artillery has so much damage per shot that most things smaller than a battleship die to one volley of less than 8 turrets. E.g. It only takes 1-2 turrets to one-shot a frigate, so by having weapons ungrouped, I can shoot something else with the other 6 turrets.

I still focus fire on one target until it's dead though, adding turrets one by one until it's dead.
Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-04-23 15:09:52 UTC
Thomas Builder wrote:
Seraph Essael wrote:
There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).
I really don't see how doing 200 dps upfront and then 200 dps later while the first group reloads is better than doing 400 dps upfront followed by 0 during the reload. Only place where it could be helpful is if you apply webs & TPs later, which increases later damage but not upfront damage.

Hi Alpha ships like Nado's will but EM ammo in a group of 4 turrets to volley a targets shield, and Fusion in the second group to volley through the armour and structure.

I have died to this on a gate and was frankly impressed.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-04-23 15:18:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ovv Topik
But on the OP's original question:

Suppose you are in a ship with 5 turrets facing 5 targets.

If it took 1 minute to kill them all by locking each one and firing at each one with 1 turret, you would be taking 100% damage for that minute.

If however you locked them all up, and fired all five turrets at each in turn, you would take 100% damage for 20% of the minute, then 80% damage for the next 20% of the minute. And so on down to only 20% incoming damage for the last 12 seconds.

And this assumes the targets are only buffer tanked. When you take the reality of either Remote, Active or at least Passive reps into account, 'primarying' (that's not a word is it) each in turn is always more effective.

It is exactly the same principal as why you will always hear an FC call for all ships to 'Primary' specific targets.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2014-04-23 15:21:25 UTC
Dev Blog - CCP Ytterbium - Weapon Grouping
EVElopedia - Weapon Grouping

There are two other ways that I don't think are covered in the above:
* The group / un-group button next to the high-slot modules buttons for a quick single group.
* In the fitting window, remove any ammo, and then drag-and-drop while holding shift.

Grouped lasers with T2 or faction crystals can be quite annoying.
Nalelmir Ahashion
Industrial Management and Engineering
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#17 - 2014-04-23 16:03:13 UTC
Don't do that :X that's bad.
focus all guns on 1 target.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#18 - 2014-04-23 18:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Thomas Builder wrote:
Seraph Essael wrote:
There are times when you can groups weapon types for strategy however. It's a bad habbit of mine, but what with the new Rapid Light Missile Launcher reload times, when I come up against more than two frigates in my RLML caracal I will group my weapons into 3 and 2 so that I don't have to suffer that reload and die (I learnt that lesson the hard way against 3 frigates).
I really don't see how doing 200 dps upfront and then 200 dps later while the first group reloads is better than doing 400 dps upfront followed by 0 during the reload. Only place where it could be helpful is if you apply webs & TPs later, which increases later damage but not upfront damage.

Anyway, the only ship on which I don't group all weapons is my Maelstrom and that's just because 1400mm artillery has so much damage per shot that most things smaller than a battleship die to one volley of less than 8 turrets. E.g. It only takes 1-2 turrets to one-shot a frigate, so by having weapons ungrouped, I can shoot something else with the other 6 turrets.

I still focus fire on one target until it's dead though, adding turrets one by one until it's dead.

It wasn't a case of doing x amount of DPS here and x amount there. It was a case of having the ability to push one frigate off and switch targets instantly, rather than having one frigate burn out of range of the missiles and me not being able to fire on the third target after shooting the second target. With the staggered 3 and 2, I was able to push off one ship and kill the remaining two... (I had precisions in at the time and he was on the edge of the 26km missile range...)

I've learnt the hard way what three frigates can do to a RLML Caracal. Considering a Duel Rep Astero in the right hands can tank a full 20 x 5 set of Rapid Lights before the 35second reload... Needless to say, I haven't made that same mistake since...

The RLML Caracal is the only ship I will stagger the damage with and that's only when I am fighting 3 plus frigates. At any other time I will apply full DPS onto one target as I stated above...and I did also state it was a 'bad habbit of mine' P a very bad, bad habbit haha

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."