EVE New Citizens Q&A

Just FYI... this is how the game has worked since 2004 and you're only catching the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It gets MUCH more intense once you leave high-sec.


Now for some constructive advice...

If you are facing as many hostiles as you say you are then just a small core of PvPers isn't going to cut it. Everyone, even the industrialists, are going to have to directly contribute in some way.

How can everyone contribute? It doesn't take long to train into a fast Ewar ship. ECM and Sensor Dampeners will be most useful so get people into Griffins and Mallus'. Fit them with Microwarpdrives, their respective Ewar, and capacitor boosters for greater longevity.
Fly fast and as far away as possible... then saturate the hostiles with Ewar. You don't even have to fit for damage dealing. Just make the fighting as frustrating as possible.


Another option is to talk to your aggressors (via private conversation) and explain (politely) that you can't defend yourselves. See if you can cut a deal that doesn't involve ISK.
For example:
- Singing a song on audio for them can be enough. Just take it in a good natured way and laugh with them. It all for fun and games right?
- Another way is to organize one "big fight" for everyone and, win or lose, the dec will be dropped after that (my first corp did this when I was a nubbin... most of us died but it was good fun... and the dec was dropped as promised).
- You can also ask them if they can provide hints or tips for fighting them.

Basically... we PvPers may be dicks but most of us are not total assholes. If you show a good attitude towards the whole thing (emphasis on this) then chances you will be helped by the very people killing you.


However, if you want to take a principled stand and not give an inch... have everyone drop corp for a small while. Bring them back when the war is dropped.

And remember that corporations in EVE are fundamentally different in EVE compared to other MMOs. They are not purely "social" things (a mere chat channel can serve this purpose well)... they are an effective declaration to others that you have greater goals in the game and are "ready to play with the big boys."

See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=337928&find=unread for more advice you can use/ignore.

A lot of good advice was given in the thread that was linked above. Take a look at the thread, to summarize here there are a couple of good options I would recommend if they are "ISK Farming" you.

Low Sec: Consider moving to low sec. Particularly Faction Warfare low sec. The great part about Faction Warfare low sec is that T1 frigates and cruisers can do just fine. Also, your surrounded by small groups that love to PvP and will be more than happy to get on shiny kills. The mechanics of low sec mean that people can get in on kills. As a result of the above, it is unlikely the War Dec corporation will follow you to low sec. In the event that the War Dec corporation does follow you, they will be surrounded by corporations that love to get in on shiny kills (i.e. its no longer you against them).

Alliance: If that is not your cup of tea. Look at some of the newer player friendly alliances out there. In other words get some friends and do not try to go it alone. Diplomacy in EvE is huge, friends are important. As an added bonus, a lot of those groups are fairly well established in either low sec / null sec / high sec. As a result they have "their space".

Never said it would be easy. Even with PvPers the term "herding cats" is applicable.


You do know that the first incarnation of CONCORD was tankable (and was tanked a few times)... and that you could get insurance for suicide ganking your ship... and that war-decs used to cost 2 to 5 million ISK... and that you could once can-bait people anywhere regardless of the system they were in... and that you could gank people in high-sec, warp off to another asteroid belt, and gank again before CONCORD caught up with you... tricking people with incorrect explanations of mechanics...

... not to mention that alliances in 0.0 have been waging ceaseless campaigns against one another... assassinating each others' leaders... disbanding entire thousand-man alliances with the push of one disgruntled/bribed person's finger... back-stabbing... double crossing... stealing shared assets...

The list goes on.

EVE is a lot "fluffer" than it used to be. Whatever "bullying" you are experiencing is a pale shadow from what it once was.


In my neck of the woods, my alliance is one of the "big, bad, blobs"... until another "bigger, badder, blob" decides to come to town and completely outclass us... in which case we lay low and operate around them (because direct engagement is suicide) or give them intel on someone else they might want to chew on.

There is always a "bigger fish" in the pond and we all, at one point or another, have to make deals and compromises to ensure our continued survival.


Three things...

1. Even the most hardened PvPer has to learn the basics of industry and the market to make a profit and ply their trade. This also means that even the best industrialists and traders have to learn a bit about PvP to keep their interests safe. It's a two-way street.

2. Sorry to say... but EVE is not for everyone. For every mineral you mine and product you build you affect everyone else in the sandbox. That means that the sandbox can affect you right back in ways you may or may not like. The trick is to rise to the challenge and adapt to this everlasting "rat race"

3. The game is what you make of it. "When life gives you lemons..." and all that jazz.

And once upon a time, CONCORD didn't even exist, and players were pretty much free to shoot others in all space. Hisec was introduced because the power balance between new and older players was way out of control: bigger ships were able to take on fleets of smaller ships (this was before things like tracking and signature resolution). When CONCORD was introduced, there were no limits to how many wardecs you could have active at any one time.

All these changes have been made to the game because CCP has realised that griefing people out of the game is bad for the community. In the meantime the people whose enjoyment is obtained from the suffering they inflict on other players have refined their techniques.



IMHO it's about the same. We've traded one moo with a hundred wardecs for a hundred smaller corps with a few wardecs each. The type of bullying has changed too: no longer is it simply perpetual wardecs, it's now "Bonus Rooms" – finding ways to personally humiliate the other player.

Just because you're more familiar with the nature of the game doesn't mean the game is softer.



And yet your advice to someone facing a much bigger, badder fish is to get into frigate fleets and engage them?

It's not EVE that's gotten soft, it's your head.

Here are a few suggestions for how an industrial corp can "work around" the bigger badder fish in hi sec:

• Move all hauling and in-space activity to contractors or NPC corp alts
• Switch to (lowsec) exploration while the wardec is active
• Start an alt in Faction Warfare and learn to make ISK through plex spinning

I really don't want to start a heated argument in New Citizens... but yes... I do advise just that; engage in faster and cheaper ships. I have and continue to do the same (I don't give advice I don't follow myself). It's called "guerrilla warfare." If you can't engage directly then frustrate your adversary's efforts and make engagement not worth their while. Rinse and repeat.

There is more to winning a conflict than simply destroying ships. And yes... I remember my early years when I was a nubbin. No, it wasn't easy. Yes, a lot of us died. Yes, I got mad and was frustrated by such circumstances. And yes, a lot of us either learned from the experience or quit the game. I chose to learn and have enjoyed the game immensely since I picked up that mentality.


And please don't compare the "bonus room" incident to this (though, to be fair, I have no idea what the OP's exact circumstances are). It was an "edge case" and appropriate action was taken.
War-decs are part of the game by design (I agree with you that lower cost for smaller corps is a bit FUBAR and should be reversed). Conflict is part of the game by design. Just because some people are more sensitive than others about this and/or don't want to adapt it doesn't mean the game should be radically redesigned to cater to the lowest common denominator.
/rant


Anyways... OP... try some of the things I listed. You have nothing to lose by doing them.

Besides the advise in this thread & the other linked thread (which is good advise).... I'd try a log-in trap. I doubt they have their entire corp camping your station. (Most high sec war corps have several wars going on.) I wouldn't do it close to a trade hub, though.

With luck, you might be able to get a few kills out of it at least. Even 210 to 1 would be better than 200 to 0.

Agree with you all!
Their is a lot of good advice and probably the only way for us to survive we need adapt and change.

And thats just the problem.
EvE is designed so PvPers have an edge. You don't need in any way todo any indy work as a PvPer.
But as an indy player you need to pay others or PvP your self to protect the corp/alliance.

I would love to be able to use our indy SP's in PvP... The only way we can do that is to take our progress money and spend it on some one else's progress. Not ours!

We are few that lives in null already but to organize a null indy corp you need a lot, A LOT, more isk, players, time and organization then in high-sec. So what is a small indy corp lacking of??

And most of our players are pretty new and don't have the skills, ISK or will to go full life in null. And as a indy player you need to time op's, no good idea to mine alone in null.

So we tend to sit at POS... or we can go and hunt rats... but then I will need to change from indy-player to a fighter-player.
And most of us are not done with our skill training within indy skills....

High-sec is new player friendly, null is not.

The main problem is not one or even four wardec's it's when we more or less are constantly at war due to that pvp corps like to ransom new/small defenseless corps. About 90% of the time we are at war.

So back to start... it's much more easy to just bend over and leave indy/mining and go to fighting and pvp. I can skill up and earn ISK doing missions, then hit null asap to belt hunt and get some really good ISK's..

Then start to pvp and have fun, lose ships, blow up ships at the time I play "my" game and develop both my SP's and my play skills. That's far from what a player in a regular indy corp does...

I love to mine, build, invent and sell it all. To take it from hard rock to a manufactured ships and modules.. and I don't like pvp.
I play games for fun and EvE would be fun if we could progress within the indy sector without the bullies. I would rather pay ISK's to Concord to get a "NPC flag" on our corp then to pay a merc corps...

I'll guess our corp is going to be disband pretty soon and we see yet another victory for the bully side...

I'm bending over / Big Slacker

This post looks like an appeal for more wardecs.

Want to stop predatory wardecs? Fight back with cheap ships. No one will keep fielding 500m ships to kill 3m frigates. Even if it comes to a 30 vs 15 fight, if you lose all 15 ships but take down one of theirs you have inflicted a humiliating defeat.

Alpha thrashers are your friend. And go for the pods too.

Because I wouldn't just want to disappear off the game map by moving into a C1 wormhole with a high static. Do your indy stuff in POS's in the hole, drop it in a station that your static connects to, and use out of corp alts to move stuff to trade hubs to sell it. You would be amazed how many of these corps would stop looking for you because you aren't in the same set of stations to camp every single day.

Of course, this is what I suggest for you since you don't seem like you want to fight. Personally, shoving Marmites back into their stations was always a source of :smug: for me.

Ba-da-bing, ba-da-bang. It's a matter of you wanting to be creative enough to solve your own problems.