These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Siphon Units getting buffed or just more unfinished content?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#61 - 2014-04-26 23:36:15 UTC
Can we get some Dev clarification on this even if its a ''stay tuned to fanfest''?

Its a shame that Siphons are currently broken and we want a fix.
Dlareme
Space Ants
Brave Collective
#62 - 2014-04-28 21:25:49 UTC
Hopefully we'll find out at fanfest, but it would be nice to have a little clarity.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#63 - 2014-05-02 11:00:38 UTC
Just a little bump for fanfest if anyone can link the details when they surface that would be sweet.
Dlareme
Space Ants
Brave Collective
#64 - 2014-05-09 23:16:29 UTC
Didn't see any mention of it on the "deployable pluggable space things" discussion which can be found here.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Md396UNjnBM

You can see where the units were beginning to be used on the chart, and then the very quick decline rate. Wonder why that is Roll
If anyone has any other news on this, It would be appreciated if light could be shed on the subject.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-05-09 23:30:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
They are barely used because CCP was meta gamed. In the design it was expressed to help 'balance them' they should randomly go for moon minerals and reactions at the pos. Thus leaving the door wide open for the pos owner to setup junk reactions to soak up most of the siphons attention keeping the amount of effort from the pos owner to just a tiny notch above what they had to do before siphons were introduced.

Also factor in the CSM is now asking for a pos to lock a ship faster, even when unmanned... It should come as no surprise who on the CSM is pushing for this. They are also in charge of the largest pos farm networks in the game for their alliance.

Before he deletes/edits:

mynnna wrote:
Wanna change some more numbers and do a balancing pass on POS guns and buff their stats a bit, since they haven't been touched since an era when a dreadnaught had less EHP than a cruiser can get today?


e: This goes especially for scan res. In context of such a change I'd propose massive increases to scan res, on the order of tenfold, but perhaps a corresponding increase in the automatic lock delay as well. That way an unmanned POS still takes its sweet time doing anything, but a manned POS is able to swiftly react to a changing combat landscape. You've got that huge tower there, why are its targeting arrays so bad?
Dlareme
Space Ants
Brave Collective
#66 - 2014-05-09 23:43:31 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
They are barely used because CCP was meta gamed. In the design it was expressed to help 'balance them' they should randomly go for moon minerals and reactions at the pos. Thus leaving the door wide open for the pos owner to setup junk reactions to soak up most of the siphons attention keeping the amount of effort from the pos owner to just a tiny notch above what they had to do before siphons were introduced.

Also factor in the CSM is now asking for a pos to lock a ship faster, even when unmanned... It should come as no surprise who on the CSM is pushing for this. They are also in charge of the largest pos farm networks in the game for their alliance.


Agreed. Though, why CCP would agree to something that ruins one of their most recently deployed items is beyond me. Still hoping for some new info on this topic though.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-05-10 00:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Dlareme wrote:
Agreed. Though, why CCP would agree to something that ruins one of their most recently deployed items is beyond me. Still hoping for some new info on this topic though.

Because if you flat out state you want xyz, then people will question your motive. So, you find a way to cause xyz as a side effect of abc suggestion. All the while convincing everyone to support abc.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-05-21 07:04:54 UTC
:|

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#69 - 2014-05-21 12:37:14 UTC
If a feature wasn't left unfinished it wouldn't be CCP.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#70 - 2014-05-21 12:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

Siphons are broken they are currently useless due to the exploit I explained. We need a dedicated raw material siphon to target moon goo to put pressure on the big doughnut.

. Either fix them or take them out the game as in their current form due to the trash reaction exploit they are pointless and simply eve form of bloat ware. More anaconda mines for my station container

*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2014-05-21 13:08:18 UTC
Just have siphons go for the biggest ISK items

Would work well, would be fun, would make certain person's moon goo reserve that is hidden away waiting for that special day all the more valuable
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-05-21 13:57:02 UTC
I thought Siphons went after the better materials by default, so I'm a bit confused by this thread. I guess I'm really out of the loop on these things.

Personally, I think siphons should have two extraction modes, the first, and default setting, would be raw material extraction. Mining arrays are anchored in space, correct? Since they're anchored in space, it is reasonable to expect that the raw materials being extracted from a moon must be transported to the mining array in some manner. In this case, I think it might be safe to say that this transportation is automated using unmanned haulers moving the materials off of the surface and into orbit. The siphon will redirect some of these haulers away from the mining array and towards itself. It could do this in a few ways, either recording and rebroadcasting the mining array's location data to a random selection of haulers so that they redirect away from the array, or by directly linking to and "hacking" a select few haulers in order to bring them directly to itself. This mode of extraction would allow the siphon to directly steal from the beginning of a production chain, in this case taking what ever raw materials(chosen at random if there are multiple raw materials being extracted from the moon) are being produced.

The second method of extraction would be for stealing processed materials. In this mode, the siphon would piggyback into the POS's network by "hacking" the same haulers used to steal raw materials. Instead of redirecting those haulers, however, it would instead inject code into the POS's network that would target refining facilities. This virus would cause the POS to believe that the siphon is just another storage facility waiting to be filled, though of a much lower priority than the normal storage facilities in order to prevent detection. When the refining of the raw materials is completed, the POS's mainframe naturally looks for a place to put the finished products. The siphon, being of a lower priority, would receive a smaller portion of these materials while the majority of the finished products would go to the normal storage facilities. Which refined products the siphon gets would be chosen at random from all of the production chains currently active at the POS.

Both of these modes would be exclusive, meaning you will never receive refined materials from a siphon unit set to extract raw materials, and you will never receive raw materials from a siphon unit set to extract refined materials. There may also need to be a difference in amount that you receive depending on which mode is chosen. This is because I'm completely uninformed when it comes to how reactions work regarding moon materials, so I have no clue what is produced from what or how much is produced from how much.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#73 - 2014-05-21 17:13:51 UTC
Still no dev clarification, WOW just really wow? After the release more broken content, I thought fixing broken content was CCP's goal at the minute why are they continuing to put out such poor quality broken content as this?

Was it really pressure from null bears that broke this or was the development half intelligent to start with, which dev even worked on this?
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#74 - 2014-05-21 17:42:37 UTC
Yeah, the siphon units sounded cool but they have been a waste of time for a small timer like me. The most content I managed to create with one was when the owner of the POS I had one on found it and demanded that I remove it. I told him that they couldn't be picked up so he destroyed it and for some reason shot the wreck with his billion ISK Tengu. His POS then destroyed his Tengu because it was set to attack anyone who lost standing.
Lady Areola Fappington
#75 - 2014-05-21 21:20:23 UTC
Ya'll need to take a step back from EVE, and re-read some of the things you post. I mean, seriously, "Is the game and CCP's affairs in such a tragic fragile state that they dare not jeopardize the moon income of pet alliances?".

Do you really think CCP makes decisions, on a corporate level, based on how much space XYZ alliance has? CCP can wipe the coffers of every nullsec alliance in the game tomorrow if they wanted. They could give em 50 million PLEX too.

Power in-game does not translate to power out of game. We've all got the same ability to vote with our feet, and...that's about it.


On the grrgoons page, you know who has the most power over Goons? Lowtax. All Lowtax would have to do is tell the EVE goons to STFU about it, and....well, it's kind of hard to have a somethingawful.com group with somethingawful.com won't let you discuss it on their forums, and actively prevents you from using any of their trademark/copyright stuff.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#76 - 2014-05-21 23:23:12 UTC
I think cyno inhibitors, Mobile Micro jumpdrives and Mobile Scan Inhibitors are more in need of being looked at, maybe siphons too.

These things are just over-nerfed.
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-05-21 23:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Alright, so I did some more research. *Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal. One, why the heck wouldn't you be okay with Dysporite? That stuff sells for about 30k a unit, right? Dysprosium sells for more, sure, but not exorbitantly more. Next, I'm not seeing a means of preventing the theft of anything. Either the materials are being used in reactions as they are produced, or they're vulnerable to theft, right? If this is true, I officially retract my suggestion about siphons being able to choose which end of a production chain materials should be able to be taken from.

Now, if it turns out you don't actually have to run a reaction in order to prevent theft, but instead need only link a mining array harvesting dysprosium to a simple reactor in order to protect it, I'm going to have to let my suggestion stand. I can't find any supporting information that this is possible, but I also can't find any supporting information that this isn't how it works, so someone please let me know.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#78 - 2014-05-22 00:37:48 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


This thread has also been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
zen zubon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-05-22 09:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: zen zubon
Invested a few hundred mil in siphons, a 5 workdays worth of free time, profit made 25 mil and I only targeted R64 moons. Would have been better to just mine in a frig for the time it took jumping system to system. I would collect before and after work, then place more siphons as others died on different r64 POSs
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#80 - 2014-05-22 15:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
zen zubon wrote:
Invested a few hundred mil in siphons, a 5 workdays worth of free time, profit made 25 mil and I only targeted R64 moons. Would have been better to just mine in a frig for the time it took jumping system to system. I would collect before and after work, then place more siphons as others died on different r64 POSs


No one is asking for massive piles of risk free isk we just need siphons to work around the current exploit as intended. It's unclear if Siphons were launched broken because of the blatant blue bear null block pressure via CSM or DDOS or if its just pure developer incompetence my guess is a combination of both.