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is Hybrid Balancing for Winter expansion finished?
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Black Dranzer
#21 - 2011-11-15 07:09:57 UTC
How about we let the changes propagate to the 300,000-odd pilots in new eden instead of the tiny handful that frequents sisi (of which I am one) before passing judgement as to how bad CCP is at balance? A hell of a lot is going down this expansion. There's going to be some turbulence.

Hold onto your butts.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#22 - 2011-11-15 07:11:57 UTC
Foofad wrote:
Caldari hybrid boats/rails still aren't up to snuff - they don't fill any needed roles in the meta that other weapons don't do better at. They're certainly better than they were, but not by enough to actually make them preferable in any specific cases over other systems.


Key word: Caldari
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#23 - 2011-11-15 07:14:22 UTC
Serpentis ships follow precisely the design principle Gallente need - web bonus + overwhelming damage.

The direction CCP is moving is the right one. Right now, overplated gallente blasterboats move like shield tanked boats on sisi. This is precisely what they need, especially considering they have free midslots for webs and the like without completely gimping their tank while doing this. Blasters have always been very good at what they did, except what they did required holding close range, which was an impossibility before the changes. Also, I don't think gallente boats should end up neut-resistant like the minmatar or caldari - as is, virtually every single good gallente pvp boat has a utility high for a neut or nos of its own.

When you consider that the new EWAR drones have not been mentioned, and an improved (read: useful) webbing drone is quite likely to be among them, things look extremely good. My live plated rax is clumsy as hell and slow, but if it gets into scram range, it *will* destroy nearly any target. On sisi, its the same thing, with slightly better damage projection, more CPU and grid for utility, and its moving faster than pretty much any other cruiser bar minmatar. If anything, its a cheapo fist of death, as opposed to a ****** slayer.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-11-15 08:58:33 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Serpentis ships follow precisely the design principle Gallente need - web bonus + overwhelming damage.

The direction CCP is moving is the right one. Right now, overplated gallente blasterboats move like shield tanked boats on sisi. This is precisely what they need, especially considering they have free midslots for webs and the like without completely gimping their tank while doing this. Blasters have always been very good at what they did, except what they did required holding close range, which was an impossibility before the changes. Also, I don't think gallente boats should end up neut-resistant like the minmatar or caldari - as is, virtually every single good gallente pvp boat has a utility high for a neut or nos of its own.

When you consider that the new EWAR drones have not been mentioned, and an improved (read: useful) webbing drone is quite likely to be among them, things look extremely good. My live plated rax is clumsy as hell and slow, but if it gets into scram range, it *will* destroy nearly any target. On sisi, its the same thing, with slightly better damage projection, more CPU and grid for utility, and its moving faster than pretty much any other cruiser bar minmatar. If anything, its a cheapo fist of death, as opposed to a ****** slayer.

You are grasping at straws. I mean: webs? you are practically claiming blasters should get more crutches to make them work (more or less) and this is precisely the design principle Gallente need? When at the same time the Minmatar design principle exists and it´s perfectly optimized for Gallente tactics?

You did not refute my argument that the Minmatar are practically the close combat and sniper specialists.

I´m not saying that the Gallente should become like the Minmatar. I´m saying the Minmatar should do Gallente tactics (you just need to change their weapons range to that of blasters and rails; dps and tracking adjusted for the change from medium range to short range). And the Gallente should look for other tactics to employ, ones they are well suited for. The Minmatar style of combat would work for Gallente as well. Blasters would just need the falloff to make them a medium ranged weapon (again dps and tracking adjusted for the change in range, also rails as longer ranged versions of blasters, but not really high ranged). They would make good generalists: the ships not the fastest but not the slowest either, good dps and tracking but with fixed damage types, cap+ammo, reload time not really outstanding either.

With just exchanging weapon ranges of ACs/Blasters and Arties/Rails (and tracking and dps adjusted for those range changes) you have:
fixed Gallente: they could fit that new role without being gimped or being op.
fixed Minmatar: they wouldn´t be op any more, because they would still excel in certain areas, but not everywhere anymore.
fixed caldari: their turret ships would become useful again; not excellent, but useful.

now tell me: is there any reason not to go that way when you are able to fix the main balancing issues from 3 of the 4 races?

You are still satisfied with the attempted balancing?

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-11-15 09:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
DarkAegix wrote:
[Brutix, Ion reps]

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I


Warrior II x5



467dps
444hp/s omni

An EANM is probably interchangeable with magstabs. Similarly, the rigs.

[Cyclone, Solo active]

'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Clarity Ward Booster I
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Warp Scrambler II

Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x5




589dps
200hp/s omni


Brutix total: 911
Cyclone total: 789

Yes, I know you probably can't just add them together, the numbers are incomparable, and that Cyclone fit is terrible, but \o/

FAKE EDIT:
Hmm... By replacing an EANM with a magstab I get 555dps and 367hp/s!
That's arguably better than the Cyclone!
Hooray!

FAKE EDIT 2:
Cyclone is ~300m/s faster, has slightly better damage projection is can gain insanely from blue pills + Crystals, so I'd say things are pretty balanced in this respect.



Considering the cyclone has half again the range (not counting barrage, with fusion) and is 300m/s faster.......a Brutix that doesn't land on that Cyclones head, and I'm talking bump him landing is going to win that fight how? Because if the Cyclones get the warp in that Brutix is ******, it be doing drone damage......assuming its got DPS drones.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#26 - 2011-11-15 09:12:54 UTC
the most glaring flaw there is not the lack of speed in an armor rigged ship, but the fact that both fits are active tanked when supposedly built for pvp.

if you want healthier, more realistic comparisons, look at plated thorax fits, plated mega fits, etc vs counterpart ships. the new plate rax is superior to the plated rupie. and dont slam 3 armor rigs on an unsupported blaster boat, that's just ********, live or sisi, unless its serpentis.
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#27 - 2011-11-15 09:40:32 UTC
From the responses in this thread I see more of a problem is with the players then with the ships or hybrids all I see here is EFT stats blah blah.

Nothing is mentioned about setting up the position be it either 150 km from target and warp to tackle frig from your gang or similar.

And yeah slapping 3 trimarks on blaster boat then complaining about speed? Are you ammar with 40 km scorch bricks ?


Try flying a rokh that thing is slower the fully plated megathron and it is shield tank.


Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-15 10:00:13 UTC
Niko Takahashi wrote:



Try flying a rokh that thing is slower the fully plated megathron and it is shield tank.





So is a Maelstrom, its so slow people don't bother putting prop mods on them....oddly it seems to work though.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#29 - 2011-11-15 10:23:49 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Niko Takahashi wrote:



Try flying a rokh that thing is slower the fully plated megathron and it is shield tank.





So is a Maelstrom, its so slow people don't bother putting prop mods on them....oddly it seems to work though.


That's because a maelstrom can volley nearly anything into oblivion.

You'd be a fool to fly one solo, though.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-11-15 10:27:13 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Niko Takahashi wrote:



Try flying a rokh that thing is slower the fully plated megathron and it is shield tank.





So is a Maelstrom, its so slow people don't bother putting prop mods on them....oddly it seems to work though.


That's because a maelstrom can volley nearly anything into oblivion.

You'd be a fool to fly one solo, though.



I've never considered the Rokh to be a solo -pwnmobile lol, last two or three I saw were discoing away on a gate......
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#31 - 2011-11-15 10:42:54 UTC
The ships that were good are better, the ships that were broken are still broken.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-11-15 12:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Pattern Clarc wrote:
The ships that were good are better, the ships that were broken are still broken.



pretty much this really.


blaster ships like the taranis and the DD and... hmm.. incursus? (IE: frigates) got even better. I think it's no strech of imagination to say that the DD pretty much tramples over overpowered status now. blaster frigates didn't needed a boost, and if they really needed one it would be on fittings only.

blaster ships like the thorax and above are still plagued by things like not enough damage for the range they have and still possessing mobility issues vs AC ships, which are still better blasterships and can hit farther.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
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