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see this post? SEE iT? I agree!

Drugs are fine, it is the difficult manufacturing and ingredient aquisition that needs fixing. I want to set up my own boost-a-lab, but getting gas is too difficult. Make radar sites more comman and make a deadspace bc dedicated to gas harvesting.

Booster side-effects, as they are currently, are unpredictable, sure. Sometimes those side effect penalties contradict the positive effect of using the booster in the first place. Agreed. And some people don't like that. Fine. But is any of that a reason to completely remove all side effects from all boosters? No, it is not.

What it does justify is the simplification of side effects. Reduce the number of possible side effects, and remove the contradictions between boost and penalty. Boosters are broadly split into two categories: defence (slot 1, covering shield and armour tanking, capacitor and sig radius) and offence (slots 2 and 3, covering turret and missile range and accuracy). Therefore, removing the contradictions is as simple as removing offensive penalties from offensive boosters, and removing defensive penalties from defensive boosters.

So, for Blue Pill, remove the penalties to shield capacity and capacitor capacity, and leave the penalties to turrets and missiles. For X-Instinct, remove the penalties to armour and shield, but leave falloff and missile velocity. For Drop, remove the contradictory penalty to turret falloff. And so on.

You could even scale the unpredictability of booster side effects with their strength. So Standard boosters could have one or two possible side effects, Improved could have two or three, and Strong could have three of four. Perhaps higher strength boosters should still have a chance to cause a side effect that might interfere with the intended effect.

Ytterbium, if uncertainty is the problem, deal with the uncertainty itself. Don't completely castrate boosters. Just simplify the side effects and don't nerf the 'boost' of boosters.

Even if they change the penalties to different things they are basically removing them.

There is no risk to a triage carrier injecting exile if the only side-effects are missile flight time, tracking and invention success!

Keep side effects how they are (mostly) even in a worst case scenario and you get a cap and armor/shield capacity side-effect you are still better off as chances are you are cap boosting and your buffer matters very little BUT they are still harsh enough to make everyone use them all the time and they stop capital pilots using without reason.

I agree.

If the randomness is bad (and I'm not saying it is), you could also make side effects happen 100% of the time. Reduce their values a bit so they are not too much, and make them a certainty.

But really, I don't think side effects need adjusting. Booster use is really quite balanced, it's the logistics of them that's a pain.

So why not replace one of Exile's side effects with a possible penalty to remote armour repair? Might give you the edge to save your own skin, but only if you're prepared to let the rest of your fleet die in a fire. Or, leave in the capacitor penalty.

Whatever the specifics are, a side effect that hurts armour amount on an armour tanking booster is a Bad Thing, but side effects (that are still meaningful) in general are a Good Thing.

I hate unpredictability stuff too. Perhaps all chance based mechanics need to be looked at.



I agree completely!

Seems like the smart thing to do here would be to make the changes to the PRODUCTION process first, THEN change the way the boosters actually work. Doing it the other way around (which is what CCP is apparently planning), is going to create a huge vacuum that booster manufacturers cannot possibly fill due to the increased demand and already existing supply issues, thus creating a huge spke in price (which has already happened due to speculation).

The reason a lot of people don't use boosters is because of the effort. It takes effort to get the boosters out of highsec where most of them are sold. That is a major roadblock for a lot of people who don't know how the arcane mechanics of the customs NPCs work (which randomly get changed by CCP on whims without notice, awesome job there).

What really bothers me here, is that boosters have become in integral part of PvP for a lot of people. Booster use is often one of the few things that differentiates higher-tier PvP players or organizations from their less successful peers. The factors that preclude others from using them are availability and price, not side effects. If standard boosters cost 3-4 million per pill, and THEN you have to smuggle out of highsec (because that's the only reliable place to find them), your average Joe spaceship pilot in Scrub Alliance B is not going to use them, both because they're too expensive in their mind and because they don't know how to regularly supply themselves with them.

It seems that CCP has once again INCORRECTLY identified the issue with a game mechanic, and taken the WRONG approach to fixing it. Instead, they devote weeks of dev blogs to gimmicky new battlecruisers and font and UI changes, and make sweeping changes to PvP mechanics without saying so much as a word about it, except in this topic, where we discover that while CCP's intentions are probably good, their implementation is half-baked AT BEST.

If the goal of this whole project with boosters is to make them used more frequently, congratulations CCP, YOU HAVE ALREADY FAILED. The prices are going to go WAY the hell up, making them even FURTHER out of the reach of average Joe spaceship pilot, while demand among "elite PvPers" is going to stay high, just making them pay more for the boosters they were ALREADY using. Meanwhile, booster manufacturers are boned because the material prices are going to (already have) skyrocket(ed), and their ability to keep a healthy profit margin is going to go down the crapper, leading to many leaving the industry.

tl;dr: way to go CCP for wrongly identifying the underlying issues of a mechanic you aren't pleased with the progress of. Boosters are expensive and rare because the MATERIALS are expensive and rare. They aren't frequently used BECAUSE of their expense, rarity and ILLEGALITY, not because of side effects which rarely happened or impacted actual ship performance. Awesome job putting boosters out of the reach of 99% of players while allowing the richest 1% to still be able to afford them AND use them to much greater effect. *golf clap*

ps. also AWESOME job fixing the forums, good thing I copied that message before hitting post, or I would have raged even harder at your ineptitude.

QFT. This sums up my sentiments exactly.

And as an added note, I for one ENJOY the masochistic process of hunting down gas and harvesting it. It's rarely a "carebear" activity, there's never been once that I've engaged in it that I haven't had to dodge, evade, or ECM my way out of danger, and the challenge / thrill of "stealing" valuable materials in dangerous place (and getting back "home" with them intact) has always been part of the fun.

For years now there's been a mystique about boosters, many myths abound about their use and how easy it is or isn't to produce them, creating opportunity for the dedicated and intrepid capsuleer. It still makes me smile when I hear "boosters are usually made at a net loss in terms of isk" or "smuggling is such a pain in the ass" because those of us who are involved have figured out ways around this and profit from a combination of creative logistical management (hauling), exploration, and a dash of market magic.

Ytterbium is right - boosters are a niche thing. But they should be a niche thing. They should be challenging to produce, continue to require a diverse skillset (manufacturing knowledge, market savvy, and defensive PvP skills), and ultimately be rewarding for those that pull it off despite its many challenges. Ytterbium said And thats exactly how they are today. Increasing spawn rates, removing side effects, handing them to the masses, all of this compromises a system that is already working like you say it should.

I totally get that without modifying supply end, prices will get jacked hard after the changes. I'll be the first to tell everyone though, i'd much rather make my isk because I found easier ways to pull off a feat that others thought was too difficult / impossible, than profiting simply because I got lucky and beat out other people camping / farming LADAR sites, and found something rare that can be arbitrarily priced sky high with little bearing on what it actually takes to produce that booster.

Anyone can farm a rare / fought over loot drop, sell it, and profit. Big freaking deal. The current manufacturing system is much more complex and nuanced though, meaning its much more satisfying for those of us that have found ways to be successful despite the common idea that "its too much of a pain in the ass".

CCP, please reconsider these changes. This dumbs down boosters in so many ways. Those of us who produce don't need kid glove treatment, and booster users don't need to be coddled by removal of side effects either. Most people agree they are well manageable, and that the element of chance and risk is exactly what makes them embody the spirit of EvE gameplay.

All of the reasons Ytterbium mentioned for changing boosters could be focused on Synth boosters, and synth boosters alone. Give them a bump to 5%, you'll see more people get more involved in Synth production and an increase in Synth popularity. Let the "gateway" drug be just that - a gateway to a world of increased danger and increased reward.

The current changes will see prices jacked, effectiveness reduced, and most players in New Eden (except the filthy rich) will simply shrug their shoulders and give up using boosters entirely. I might personally make a killing as I sell off my stock, but no amount of isk is worth watching a really clever and fun system be destroyed by making boosters cheap candy that sees widespread use (like Faction Ammo), or the "I win" button of the rich.

I do not like the direction CCP Ytterbium is taking boosters by doing this blanket change to them.

My position and suggestion for a compromise have already been stated here. I do not see nor has anyone pointed out any issues with my suggestion.

I am sadden that CCP Ytterbium felt the need to take a unique and low-sec specific feature of the game, water it down for ex-wow players, and have the gall to call it a better system.

At this point, CCP will be rolling this change out regardless of what is discussed here. (with over sights of implants included) To me, the oversights are proof that these change were rushed and not well thought through, let alone discussed.

I will say that the new expansion is by far the best one released in a long time, but i have to say that these changes to boosters constitute a missed opportunity and a dropped ball on the dev's part and specifically on CCP Ytterbium part if he is the lead for these changes.

Also: it makes drugs not fun and interesting anymore :(

It feels so dumbed down the way you want to make them. It's like a second tier of hardwirings.