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Dev Blog: The Impact of the Council of Stellar Management

First post First post
Author
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-04-21 19:59:59 UTC
mkint wrote:
Querns wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I, like so many other sane people, don't use the launcher, but boot up from the .exe file.
Guess what, nothing about the CSM.

But thanks for playing, here are your fabulous parting gifts.

Why would you not use the launcher? The launcher lets you switch characters on an account without having to re-enter your credentials. It's very useful.

Um.... because the launcher is a piece of crap? (if it works, which most of the time it doesn't, it works poorly. Because it's a piece of crap.)

This has not been my experience. The launcher works just great for me. Perhaps you are letting your experience be colored by one or two failures during the early days of the launcher's existence?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

KingKenny
Spaghetti Cannon
Sentinels Amongst Warriors
#42 - 2014-04-21 20:44:19 UTC
The CSM offers casual players nothing. Its all about PVP, Null Sec, Alliance block votes etc.

Sorry but nothing in the CSM for me and my very small and ever reducing corp. Used to be 20+ active players, not sure there will be any come the summer following the changes to industry and the continual empire ganking and other unsavoury incidents.

I am just a bit part player in this once great game. I see no point in voting, for there is nothing for me to vote for.















Anders Madeveda
Usque Ad Mortem
#43 - 2014-04-21 22:49:08 UTC
I think it's cute that CCP Devs feel compelled to write a blog praising the efforts of the CSM, call it my c-suite business background but there should not be harmony and kum-bay-yah singing between CCP and the CSM. The design of the CSM mechanic should be constant friction with CCP, a sustained game of tug of war. When I read Jester's blog regarding the upcoming abortion that is the Industry Update and he is in agreement, I question whether the CSM takes their role seriously or if they in fact just dig the "special status" they enjoy.

The members of the CSM should be FIGHTING for the player base, all of the player base, not the player base that they originate from exclusively. All of the corporations, alliances, content segments and game styles, not just what they find cool or enjoyable. I don't doubt some do this nor do I doubt that most think they do this, but if the impending industry changes are a result of CCP/CSM collaboration then the system is definitely not working as intended.
mkint
#44 - 2014-04-21 23:16:48 UTC
Querns wrote:
mkint wrote:
Querns wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I, like so many other sane people, don't use the launcher, but boot up from the .exe file.
Guess what, nothing about the CSM.

But thanks for playing, here are your fabulous parting gifts.

Why would you not use the launcher? The launcher lets you switch characters on an account without having to re-enter your credentials. It's very useful.

Um.... because the launcher is a piece of crap? (if it works, which most of the time it doesn't, it works poorly. Because it's a piece of crap.)

This has not been my experience. The launcher works just great for me. Perhaps you are letting your experience be colored by one or two failures during the early days of the launcher's existence?

Nope. Every patch it fails to patch correctly. That being what it's designed to do, and it fails to do it, it is therefore a piece of crap. When I get incompatible protocol, I just run repair.exe. Works first time, every time, and much much quicker than the launcher does on those rare times the launcher actually works.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

stoicfaux
#45 - 2014-04-22 00:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Weaselior wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

I, like so many other sane people, don't use the launcher, but boot up from the .exe file.
Guess what, nothing about the CSM.

But thanks for playing, here are your fabulous parting gifts.

unsuprisingly when you deliberately bypass the system CCP put in to show you things like CSM ELECTIONS TODAY VOTE NOW then you don't see those things

sounds like you've got only yourself to blame

if ccp mailed things to everybody's email saying to vote i'm sure you'd be posting I DONT USE EMAIL SHEESH WHY DIDN'T YOU SEND A TELEGRAPH

Or you know, people have the auto-launch flag checked and don't have opportunity to see the launcher for more than a second or two anyway, which is not to imply that such people actually use that one to two seconds looking at the launcher.

As for newsletter emails, the CSM minutes get mentioned, but not the actual upcoming CSM election itself.

So, hey, if CCP can't be bothered to even do something as basic as mention the CSM election (and candidate selection) in the newsletter, then I can't be bothered to care either.

:-|


Because you know, if a nice chunk of those highsec carebears actually voted, it would effectively randomize the elections, which I would pay to see, TBH.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-04-22 01:58:53 UTC
Who are they kidding? We already know the outcome....nullbears, lowsequers and wholers will tell their grunts who to vote for and get all the slots on the csm. Once the election is over the BWAAAAmbulance will start making the rounds.....buff null, low and wh but nerf highsec....buff null, low, wh but nerf highsec.....BWAAAAAAA......buff null, low and wh......on and on and on the BWAAAAmbulance goes. Why vote? Waste of time.
Bear
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#47 - 2014-04-22 02:12:17 UTC
Dalilus wrote:
Who are they kidding? We already know the outcome....nullbears, lowsequers and wholers will tell their grunts who to vote for and get all the slots on the csm. Once the election is over the BWAAAAmbulance will start making the rounds.....buff null, low and wh but nerf highsec....buff null, low, wh but nerf highsec.....BWAAAAAAA......buff null, low and wh......on and on and on the BWAAAAmbulance goes. Why vote? Waste of time.
Bear



Well, I think this time it might be a little different.
Given the damage this CSM wrought on high sec, specifically casual players, plus the upcoming nerfs to high sec T2 invention and standard rat grinding, CSM 10 reps might be running on the platform of how to save Eve. That, or course, will still include "nerf the hell out of high sec", because, well, these CSM people and the devs that listen to them are batshit crazy.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#48 - 2014-04-22 02:50:39 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Dalilus wrote:
Who are they kidding? We already know the outcome....nullbears, lowsequers and wholers will tell their grunts who to vote for and get all the slots on the csm. Once the election is over the BWAAAAmbulance will start making the rounds.....buff null, low and wh but nerf highsec....buff null, low, wh but nerf highsec.....BWAAAAAAA......buff null, low and wh......on and on and on the BWAAAAmbulance goes. Why vote? Waste of time.
Bear



Well, I think this time it might be a little different.
Given the damage this CSM wrought on high sec, specifically casual players, plus the upcoming nerfs to high sec T2 invention and standard rat grinding, CSM 10 reps might be running on the platform of how to save Eve. That, or course, will still include "nerf the hell out of high sec", because, well, these CSM people and the devs that listen to them are batshit crazy.


Chicken Little for CSM 10. \o/

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2014-04-22 09:10:29 UTC
ITT: People who think they're clever because they refuse to act on their own interests.

Oh, and also Dinsdale working harder than any goon (I'm actually starting to wonder if perhaps I should say "any other goon"...?) to ensure that hi-sec and casual players don't vote.

For someone who continually complains about "mindless grunts voting as ordered", you sure spend a lot of time trying to tell people how they should ensure the "nullblocs" continue to be over-represented, Dinsy. You couldn't campaign harder for Mynnna if you tried.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#50 - 2014-04-22 09:42:46 UTC
Rhes wrote:
The Eve Launcher is obviously a Goon conspiracy.


Well it connects to some rather interesting stuff, of which I won't go into because Dinsdale's head would probably a-spolde. Bear

Bronco Platz
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-04-22 18:02:49 UTC
Anders Madeveda wrote:
When I read Jester's blog regarding the upcoming abortion that is the Industry Update and he is in agreement, I question whether the CSM takes their role seriously or if they in fact just dig the "special status" they enjoy.


The bolted part is all they are doing. The CSMs are flight 2 times by CCP to Iceland, get told by CCP: "This are our super super plans for Eve!", came back and tell in their blogs or in the forums: "We were in Iceland and get told by CCP about their super plans for Eve! But can´t tell you, because NDA. You know?"

Overall the CSM is not more than a marketinggag by CCP without any real influence.

This signature is under NDA. Sorry.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-04-22 18:23:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Bronco Platz wrote:
Overall the CSM is not more than a marketinggag by CCP without any real influence.

You are adorable.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Jethrow Toralen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-04-23 10:50:24 UTC
mkint wrote:
more shill to make people think their vote matters. It does not. CSM works for the CSM, and their in-game benefit. But then again, so does CCP. If you're not in a nullbear block, your chances of getting someone who even remotely begins to represent you is a once in a lifetime. Literally. That's as many times as it's happened for anybody who's not a nullbear. go nullsec or gtfo. What a waste.


Re: that once in a lifetime chance. You would think that it would be very likely if it were going to happen, it would happen this CSM, due to the large influx of rookie players brought in by the battle in late Jan.

However, by happy coincidence, CCP in their wisdom decided it was appropriate to run the Recall program to coincide with the 12 days that voting for CSM would take place. Thus, any veteran player who has ever had an account for 30 days in the past - 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th etc could re-activate them for 7 days without any intention of re-subbing but still be able to gain a vote for those accounts. The effect of that is to dilute all the votes of those incoming new players.

I lost quite a bit of respect for CCP over this, which I consider like a virtual gerrymandering. I would think, if only for appearances, the Recall program could have been delayed for a mere 12 days so that the voting population properly reflects the ppl who have put their money where their mouth is and subbed up. Not doing so is either an extreme oversight, or a conscious decision to give more voting power to veteran players over newer players.

Quote:
CCP Dolan
Feel free to post your questions, comments, and feedback in this thread. I'll try to get to as many as I can.

Will you be releasing data on who is doing the voting eg. how many votes did recalled accounts contribute, and how many were from new players since Jan?

Re: Comments on the devblog. In a previous life as a China watcher I learnt how to read the Beijing Review... eg. 'Productivity in Agriculture jumps expectations' means 'There is a serious problem in the agriculture sector'. So I can't help but read 'Impact of the CSM' with glowing references from CCP employees as 'Serious problem in perception of the CSM among the player segment not directly represented by the CSM'.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#54 - 2014-04-23 14:02:01 UTC
mkint wrote:
Querns wrote:
mkint wrote:
Querns wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I, like so many other sane people, don't use the launcher, but boot up from the .exe file.
Guess what, nothing about the CSM.

But thanks for playing, here are your fabulous parting gifts.

Why would you not use the launcher? The launcher lets you switch characters on an account without having to re-enter your credentials. It's very useful.

Um.... because the launcher is a piece of crap? (if it works, which most of the time it doesn't, it works poorly. Because it's a piece of crap.)

This has not been my experience. The launcher works just great for me. Perhaps you are letting your experience be colored by one or two failures during the early days of the launcher's existence?

Nope. Every patch it fails to patch correctly. That being what it's designed to do, and it fails to do it, it is therefore a piece of crap. When I get incompatible protocol, I just run repair.exe. Works first time, every time, and much much quicker than the launcher does on those rare times the launcher actually works.


Like Querns I too have had no problems with the launcher (on TQ) so seeing all the threads about the badbadlauncher make me baffled. It also makes me suspect something is wrong with the net connection of the complainers, maybe their ISP frowns upon their downloading big patches and 'shapes' their net connection. Would explain a lot. Would also not be CCP's fault.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#55 - 2014-04-23 15:33:58 UTC
Jethrow Toralen wrote:
mkint wrote:
more shill to make people think their vote matters. It does not. CSM works for the CSM, and their in-game benefit. But then again, so does CCP. If you're not in a nullbear block, your chances of getting someone who even remotely begins to represent you is a once in a lifetime. Literally. That's as many times as it's happened for anybody who's not a nullbear. go nullsec or gtfo. What a waste.


Re: that once in a lifetime chance. You would think that it would be very likely if it were going to happen, it would happen this CSM, due to the large influx of rookie players brought in by the battle in late Jan.

However, by happy coincidence, CCP in their wisdom decided it was appropriate to run the Recall program to coincide with the 12 days that voting for CSM would take place. Thus, any veteran player who has ever had an account for 30 days in the past - 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th etc could re-activate them for 7 days without any intention of re-subbing but still be able to gain a vote for those accounts. The effect of that is to dilute all the votes of those incoming new players.

I lost quite a bit of respect for CCP over this, which I consider like a virtual gerrymandering. I would think, if only for appearances, the Recall program could have been delayed for a mere 12 days so that the voting population properly reflects the ppl who have put their money where their mouth is and subbed up. Not doing so is either an extreme oversight, or a conscious decision to give more voting power to veteran players over newer players.

Quote:
CCP Dolan
Feel free to post your questions, comments, and feedback in this thread. I'll try to get to as many as I can.

Will you be releasing data on who is doing the voting eg. how many votes did recalled accounts contribute, and how many were from new players since Jan?

Re: Comments on the devblog. In a previous life as a China watcher I learnt how to read the Beijing Review... eg. 'Productivity in Agriculture jumps expectations' means 'There is a serious problem in the agriculture sector'. So I can't help but read 'Impact of the CSM' with glowing references from CCP employees as 'Serious problem in perception of the CSM among the player segment not directly represented by the CSM'.


Look, any data that demonstrates the incestuous relationship between the null sec cartels and CSM voting will not be made public. That is a given. Further, I have yet to see a response to my question regarding the Chinese server subscribers, and what, if any, voting they do. When CCP gives out the subscription numbers , does that include the Chinese subs?

Also, by resurrecting all those recalled accounts, not only does it gerrymander the voting groups, it also artificially bumps the total active account totals. That is a big deal because if CCP gives out the total number of votes and the precise percentage of accounts that voted, we can once again nail down exactly how many subs are in the game. No way in hell CCP nor the cartels want hard evidence distributed that the direction CCP has taken has forced down the subscription rates.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#56 - 2014-04-23 15:56:19 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
That is a big deal because if CCP gives out the total number of votes and the precise percentage of accounts that voted, we can once again nail down exactly how many subs are in the game. No way in hell CCP nor the cartels want hard evidence distributed that the direction CCP has taken has forced down the subscription rates.


In other news, nullsec cartels are the reason why Valve never release yearly sales figures.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2014-04-23 19:17:05 UTC
dinsdale i must thank you for your tireless campaign to prevent highsec from voting and disrupting our cartel

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#58 - 2014-04-24 20:56:12 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
dinsdale i must thank you for your tireless campaign to prevent highsec from voting and disrupting our cartel


You can call me a crackpot conspiracy theorist (which is more laughable every day as the dev blogs pour in) who is a joke with no credibility, or you can consider me a force that has impact on people's decision-making.

But you can't call me both, since they are mutually exclusive.

I grow tired of the trolling and asshattery I deal with fighting you lot.

You killed high sec, or will when high sec T2 invention, incursion income and mission income receive the same treatment we have seen industry get in the last few months of blogs. And those assaults are clearly already in the dev pipeline. You will drive a whole bunch of people into null sec to be your serfs.

You have won.
Now how about being graceful about it and not gloat, but shut up and let the ISK and its real life benefits wash over you.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-04-24 21:16:40 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Now how about being graceful about it and not gloat

You lost me here.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-04-24 23:33:45 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


You have won.


sorry could you run through this part one more time