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Wardecing..an easy way to get new players to stop playing

First post
Author
Ethikos
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-04-20 16:20:38 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
....
Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.


You are quite right, on their own a new player is very vulnerable to a T3 cruiser etc. From my somewhat limited experience in High Sec, that is what the War Dec corp is looking for. That is why the number one suggestion is to join a group that welcomes newer players.

If however your corp decides to fight back on your own, look at ways to even the playing field. If you have a good numbers advantage, think up a T1 cruiser doctrine with logistical support and go at it. Sure you may die, but your learning and fighting back. If you lack numbers, change the field and drag them to low sec. The chances of them following you are very small, and if they do there are a lot of people who would love to get in on T3 cruisers kills all around you.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2014-04-20 16:59:08 UTC
Ethikos wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
....
Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.


You are quite right, on their own a new player is very vulnerable to a T3 cruiser etc. From my somewhat limited experience in High Sec, that is what the War Dec corp is looking for. That is why the number one suggestion is to join a group that welcomes newer players.

If however your corp decides to fight back on your own, look at ways to even the playing field. If you have a good numbers advantage, think up a T1 cruiser doctrine with logistical support and go at it. Sure you may die, but your learning and fighting back. If you lack numbers, change the field and drag them to low sec. The chances of them following you are very small, and if they do there are a lot of people who would love to get in on T3 cruisers kills all around you.


Yes but how many high sec newbie corps are going to have more than 20 people in it? Perhaps just bad luck but I find corps of that size can barely have 5 people online. That's not going to give you much fighting power. Especially if one of you is flying logi
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#43 - 2014-04-20 17:10:57 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Ethikos wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
....
Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.


You are quite right, on their own a new player is very vulnerable to a T3 cruiser etc. From my somewhat limited experience in High Sec, that is what the War Dec corp is looking for. That is why the number one suggestion is to join a group that welcomes newer players.

If however your corp decides to fight back on your own, look at ways to even the playing field. If you have a good numbers advantage, think up a T1 cruiser doctrine with logistical support and go at it. Sure you may die, but your learning and fighting back. If you lack numbers, change the field and drag them to low sec. The chances of them following you are very small, and if they do there are a lot of people who would love to get in on T3 cruisers kills all around you.


Yes but how many high sec newbie corps are going to have more than 20 people in it? Perhaps just bad luck but I find corps of that size can barely have 5 people online. That's not going to give you much fighting power. Especially if one of you is flying logi


I think you overestimate how many T3s you are going to run into outside of station humping in a trade hub. (proper instant dock/undock BMs will let you avoid those)

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"

Keno Skir
#44 - 2014-04-20 18:28:10 UTC
It's kinda like real life.

Hardship is what makes you a strong person, if it doesn't break you. People who are given everything good and sheltered from everything bad in life generally become self rightious a-holes, where as those who experience hardship and make something of it anyway become the best people to know.

Don't feel you have to stay with a corp that chooses to hide, it really isn't the only option even for new players.

I'v been known to dec the occasional young corp just to see how cool they are. Roll with it and make plans, believe me it'll teach you all kinds of tricks and make you generally MORE confident in yourself. Don't be afraid to lose ship, just make sure they're cheapy ones.

I spent my first few months in game under almost constant decs from people (some of whom) i now call friends. It pushed me to learn about survival amongst other things, and helped steer me clear of a repetitive grinding life into a more varied and rewarding PvP experience.

This game provides you with a set of rules to bend to your advantage. How successful you are depends on how well you learn these rules and use them to your own gain.

Drop me a line if you like, i'll help out if i can.
Tran Tuyen
Amadio Family Enterprises
#45 - 2014-04-20 18:44:08 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Ethikos wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
....
Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.


You are quite right, on their own a new player is very vulnerable to a T3 cruiser etc. From my somewhat limited experience in High Sec, that is what the War Dec corp is looking for. That is why the number one suggestion is to join a group that welcomes newer players.

If however your corp decides to fight back on your own, look at ways to even the playing field. If you have a good numbers advantage, think up a T1 cruiser doctrine with logistical support and go at it. Sure you may die, but your learning and fighting back. If you lack numbers, change the field and drag them to low sec. The chances of them following you are very small, and if they do there are a lot of people who would love to get in on T3 cruisers kills all around you.


Yes but how many high sec newbie corps are going to have more than 20 people in it? Perhaps just bad luck but I find corps of that size can barely have 5 people online. That's not going to give you much fighting power. Especially if one of you is flying logi
This is one of the (many) reasons I don't think new players are well served by joining "new player friendly" corps that are made up entirely of new players. A corp with a decent spread of experience is a much better home for new players, all other things being equal. I don't have any good ideas for steering new players that way, unfortunately.

But, as others have said, if you are in a small noob corp and you just can't muster the ordinance to take out a solo WT, pack up your Rifters and head to lowsec. Maybe even try to get in touch with the locals and set up a Batphone; I think most lowsec PVPers would be willing to make a temporary arrangement if there was a Proteus killmail on the table.
Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-04-21 02:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahost Gceo
Highsec is a cesspit anyways. If you seriously want to get out from under the shadow of wardecs, you need to grab a Can-O-Man and move out of it. There are three other categories of space that you could move to, and each have their own opportunities according to how you play and how you prefer to raise income. Do keep in mind though that once you move out of highsec, only YOU are responsible for your own survival and safety.

1. Lowsec- Right next door to highsec you still have relatively easy access to trade hubs. Depending on the region you move to, you can still take your barge with you and shoot rocks in some backwater system, like many in Aridia, without frequent disruption. Keep an eye on local and d-scan as always though, and warp to a safe point or dock up the moment someone unsavory looking visits your system. You can also make a pretty good living on the items from exploration sites which pay more than they do in highsec and are more numerous.

2. Nullsec- Unfortunately, this is the most dangerous space for the independent spirits, and could be considered uninhabitable for a single corp in today's political landscape. If you seek income out of null, your best chance is to join a corp within an alliance that holds sov in a stable manner. Should you manage to do so, you have a variety of income options including lucrative combat sites, even better paying exploration sites, and rarer ores in asteroid belts. Again, watch local and d-scan.

3. Wormholes- Of all the "other" types of space, wormhole space can have the best risk to ISK ratio depending on how you play your cards. As opposed to nullsec, a single corporation could own their own wormhole system and enjoy the benefits of the sites and relative seclusion it offers. However, there are a LOT of mechanics you will have to learn to keep yourself from dying in a horrible fire every day. For starters, there is no local list so you have no idea how many people are actually in your system, therefore cloaky ships should invoke absolute fear in you if you have no PvP experience. There is a lot more you will need to take into account, more than I could reasonably explain here, so shoot me an evemail in game if you have questions about W-space.

Again, if wardecs are a constant bother for you, I cannot stress how much it would benefit you to take the plunge and get the hell out of highsec.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#47 - 2014-04-21 05:11:29 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Yes but how many high sec newbie corps are going to have more than 20 people in it? Perhaps just bad luck but I find corps of that size can barely have 5 people online. That's not going to give you much fighting power. Especially if one of you is flying logi


It only takes 3 people in T1 ships to blow anything that you can't just warp past while thumbing your nose out of the water. Pretty much any tactic they can use to deny you a focus-fire kill will also let you escape the station and go somewhere else if you don't want to fight.

Maybe a T3 could both lock/destroy your people and survive focused fire, but if the people wardeccing you are camping you with a T3 then other high-sec corps are going to be lining up to ally with you for that kill mail... so either way, problem solved.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#48 - 2014-04-21 06:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
The assumption that whatever advantage you perceive the aggressors to have is utterly insurmountable and that to even attempt to fight is suicide is the very thing that allows me and people like me to fly vulnerable, multi billion isk ships around highsec victimizing whomsoever we please without the faintest fear of loss.

It's utterly comical how unwilling people are to lift a finger in their own defense. People don't even try to fight back, hell most of them time they won't even seek the knowledge to know what they can do to fight back.

It's like fighting a herd of cows using an ATV and an assault rifle. They could trivially trample you to death, but they don't because they're docile and domesticated.
Sykaotic
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-04-21 10:55:08 UTC
@ OP

I had a 1 man corp with about 5m sp on the toon and was "war decced" by a dual box player with 100m sp. I was hunted every day by this player so I dropped corp.

That did not work as the other guy got together 4 more 100m or so players and ganked me for lols on a gate in hi sec.

I had these people all on ignore and they contacted me via a contract.... offering to sell me my corpse.

I fought the 100 sp player with my 5m sp self... died and did nothing.

I hired mercs.... did nothing.

I quit the game for 6 months.

GL
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#50 - 2014-04-21 12:58:59 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
The assumption that whatever advantage you perceive the aggressors to have is utterly insurmountable and that to even attempt to fight is suicide is the very thing that allows me and people like me to fly vulnerable, multi billion isk ships around highsec victimizing whomsoever we please without the faintest fear of loss.

It's utterly comical how unwilling people are to lift a finger in their own defense. People don't even try to fight back, hell most of them time they won't even seek the knowledge to know what they can do to fight back.

It's like fighting a herd of cows using an ATV and an assault rifle. They could trivially trample you to death, but they don't because they're docile and domesticated.


Basically, this. That sort of player exists because they know people won't fight back. Start fighting back, and they'll go pick on someone else. (If you're really lucky, or you exhibit the right attitude about it, they might even take you in, teach you some things, and send you out into the world with your new knowledge and experience. It happens.)

Sykaotic wrote:
@ OP

I had a 1 man corp with about 5m sp on the toon and was "war decced" by a dual box player with 100m sp. I was hunted every day by this player so I dropped corp.

That did not work as the other guy got together 4 more 100m or so players and ganked me for lols on a gate in hi sec.

I had these people all on ignore and they contacted me via a contract.... offering to sell me my corpse.

I fought the 100 sp player with my 5m sp self... died and did nothing.

I hired mercs.... did nothing.

I quit the game for 6 months.

GL


Eve Online isn't a single player game. I'm sorry that was your experience. It may have been different had you been in a corporation with other players.

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"

Sykaotic
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-04-21 14:05:14 UTC
Cameron Zero wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
The assumption that whatever advantage you perceive the aggressors to have is utterly insurmountable and that to even attempt to fight is suicide is the very thing that allows me and people like me to fly vulnerable, multi billion isk ships around highsec victimizing whomsoever we please without the faintest fear of loss.

It's utterly comical how unwilling people are to lift a finger in their own defense. People don't even try to fight back, hell most of them time they won't even seek the knowledge to know what they can do to fight back.

It's like fighting a herd of cows using an ATV and an assault rifle. They could trivially trample you to death, but they don't because they're docile and domesticated.


Basically, this. That sort of player exists because they know people won't fight back. Start fighting back, and they'll go pick on someone else. (If you're really lucky, or you exhibit the right attitude about it, they might even take you in, teach you some things, and send you out into the world with your new knowledge and experience. It happens.)

Sykaotic wrote:
@ OP

I had a 1 man corp with about 5m sp on the toon and was "war decced" by a dual box player with 100m sp. I was hunted every day by this player so I dropped corp.

That did not work as the other guy got together 4 more 100m or so players and ganked me for lols on a gate in hi sec.

I had these people all on ignore and they contacted me via a contract.... offering to sell me my corpse.

I fought the 100 sp player with my 5m sp self... died and did nothing.

I hired mercs.... did nothing.

I quit the game for 6 months.

GL


Eve Online isn't a single player game. I'm sorry that was your experience. It may have been different had you been in a corporation with other players.

Sykaotic
Doomheim
#52 - 2014-04-21 14:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sykaotic
Reply to above post as it would not fit above.

No need to be sorry at all. But:

A. I played in 2008 and the game was not like this.

B. There are many players who choose to be solo or in NPC corps.

With that said and focusing on A. lets look at the front page of Eve and also the "Discover Who You Are" page for new players considering the game.

From: http://trial.eveonline.com/en/freetrial.aspx?

Quote:
EXPLORE THE UNKNOWN
Are you that rogue captain that enjoys the thrill of sneaking through stretches of enemy territory?
Do you enjoy the discovery of new worlds?
Are you in search of an MMO so vast that there will always be someplace new to explore?
7,000 star systems - NPC and Player controlled regions - hidden worm-hole space waiting to be explored.
BUILD YOUR EMPIRE
Are you a person who knows how to close a deal? Does competing in a marketplace with 2,000 transactions a minute pique your interest?
Are you looking for a game where one can build a legacy as a financial market leader, CEO of a company or even just the main guy to go to for the best arms deals in New Eden?
Huge universe wide player driven market-place - intense research and production system - constantly evolving economy.
DOMINATE YOUR ENEMIES
What is your definition of epic combat? Is it fleets of hundreds clashing in battle? Is it war for control of entire constellations?
Does high risk PvP get your blood racing? 1000+ ship fleet battles - hundreds of ship types - thousands of ship module options
In a single-shard universe, all players are part of one community. Your actions, be they those of a savior or scourge, impact not just a small group or independent shard, but the universe itself.


and the paths for new players from:
Find Your Path In The Sandbox we have Mission Runners, Explorers, PvP yes etc.

As you will note, there is NO description or mention on either page of griefing as a career path. As a matter of fact there is this instead:

From: Grief Play

Quote:
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.

An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.


With that said, in 2008 there were "Can Baiters" who were usually pretty new guys killing rookies. They were looked down upon in 2008 by every one I knew, and looked down upon in the forums.

In 2008, the game truly resembled the 2 pages I mentioned much closer than it does now.

In 2014, the game has moved a very long way from the front pages I mentioned, into some twisted *Advanced* Can Baiting of newer players by those with the same mentality of the Can Baiters of 2008 = the recent "The Bonus Room" and the other well publicized crossing the line events, the push to kill all miners in hi sec, the push to kill all missioners in hi sec, the move to sit on station with remote reps killing rookie ships etc.

Lastly, I did join another corp, and even moved to low sec, I dont mind Pvp, low sec, FW, if that is what I am in the mood for. But... even that did not help as the 100m sp person started contacting my CEO and corp mates for more of this 2014 can baiting / griefing play.

Anyways, I believe the OP has a very valid point in that New Players are being targeted for can baiting mind set harassment and do indeed quit.

I am back, but my friend did not come back.

Again, no need to be sorry.... I am pointing out that the game has changed and is farther from what it is described as now than in 2008. New people want to play it ... pvp included, without stalking harassment etc. from those who skilled up in can baiting as the old style of can baiting was made against the rules.

Good luck OP. I hope you find a solution so that you may Enjoy Eve Online.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#53 - 2014-04-21 15:54:44 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
lots of mindless drivel


Yours looks like a classic case of an individual regurgitating Ripard Teg's moronic ideas and calling them his own. If you want to rant about alleged grief play, take it to General Discussion. This thread is about wardecs, which are a beloved feature of this game specifically allowed by CCP and therefore are not considered griefing.

There are two basic strategies that small, newbie heavy corps can use to approach defensive wardecs. If you are facing overwhelming force, the best thing to do is to pack up and leave the area, either temporarily or permanently. Head for low, null, or wormholes. Secluded highsec islands like Solitude work fairly well too.

The second option is to stand your ground. Get your people flying ECM. Contact your aggressor's other war targets and work with them to present a united front. Keep your fits cheap. Avoid getting your gangs spread out where you can be killed one at a time. Use out of corp scouts. Set traps. Don't afk mine, don't fly your in-corp Orca in the belts or haul with your in-corp freighter. For the love of God, keep your local chat open and actually do something when WTs enter the system, don't just keep grinding rocks.

The average wardec corp is going to come at you with very small gangs (if they don't just camp the trade routes), so this isn't impossible for a small corp with low SP. You just have to understand that this is a PvP game, and you are under attack. Then you have to react accordingly.

Thinking that you can ignore wardecs isn't going to work, and if you choose to follow that strategy you will just hand kills to the enemy. It doesn't make them bad people. If you are playing soccer and your goalkeeper spends his game watching Netflix on his phone and ignoring the match around him, you wouldn't call the opposing team "bullies" because they score a lot of goals.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Sykaotic
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-04-21 18:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sykaotic
Haedonism Bot wrote:
lots of mindless drivel


If you are playing soccer and your goalkeeper spends his game watching Netflix....


Anyways, this thread is about New Players Quitting basically from griefing.

Declaring war used to be done for legitimate reasons on more established corps. Yes you had a few of the *Can Baiters Mindset* declare war on newbie corps years ago for griefing purpooses, but it has grown exponentially over the years as the game ages along with griefing in general.

I guarantee you the OP was war decced purely based on griefing.

This has been a huge problem for many games for many years and is a huge reason for the players quitting which hurts the game makers bottom line. To wit from the Cnet article

"Problems related to grief players often account for 25 percent or more of customer service calls, according to game publishers."

The article while older focuses on *griefing New Players* and no doubt this thread is about that subject and about the OP, otherwise it would have been shut down with a nice note from CCP stating working as intended.

Again, I played Eve in 2008, and returned as a new player / new toon 5 years later and the game has changed in that griefing New Players and griefing in general has skyrocketed. I have noticed this phenomena with many other aging online games.

As is such the statements made by John Suler, (a psychologist at Rider University in Lawrenceville, N.J. has studied deviant behavior in online game communities and found that griefers fall into two basic camps)

A. "Some of them are kind of antisocial types, where their cause is to fight the authority figure," Suler said. "They take more pleasure in the grief they cause for the company that runs the game. That may stem back to difficult relations with parents and authority figures."

B. "Sometimes it's just a matter of wanting to hurt other people, cause grief for them," Suler said. "It might be a form of displacement for people who have been victimized in other areas of their life. They cope by turning the passive into the active: 'Now I'm the person who victimizes other people.'"

indicates that diminishing numbers of players and rising numbers of griefing including on New Players are linked.

Again, not saying that the war dec is against the rules.... I am saying that it has become much more common now a days to war dec new players.... which is a very stupid idea that no one gains from except griefers.

The community really should look at the line, it was crossed with can baiting nubs and is being crossed even more so nowadays in the game in general and yes more common on new players also. All one has to do to know this is read the forum posts by CCP regarding griefing players, crossing the line IRL and the bans that have occurred over the last year. Not a healthy community right now.

Take care and GL.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#55 - 2014-04-21 18:32:15 UTC
I'd love to see you cite some sort of statistics on this idea of yours that wardeccers favor attacking new players or that so-called "new player griefing" is more common or more accepted than in 2008. Since that time, canflipping has been nerfed out of existence, suicide ganking has been nerfed to the point that it is hardly recognizable, wardec evasion has been deemed to no longer be an exploit, and the cost of a wardec has risen from 2 million isk to 50-500 million isk.

Personally, I'm pretty well connected with the wardec/highsec aggressor community, and I simply don't see this phenomenon of targeting newbies that you and the Ripard Tegs of the world so loudly decry. Sure, newbies get blapped in the crossfire sometimes, usually because all the veterans in their corp are cowering in stations, but specifically hunting for newbies is very rare, in my experience.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2014-04-21 18:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
I am just going to say Sykaotic is full of crap.

Keep your defeatist tendencies to yourself. Just because your weak and unable to do something does not mean others can't.

I have been playing for a while and what your talking about has not increased. It has actually become safer. Not to mention the steady rise of subs year on year makes you look like a fool.

Back when I started it was alot more dangerous then it is now. Indy/miners never had it this easy.

What is happening however is the forms of gameplay shrouded in obscurity many years ago such as ganking and wars has received a lot more attention and news compared to in the past. Thanks to all the blogs/twitter/facebook and EVE news sites.

When all you read about is scams, wars and ganks it appear on the surface that it is the only thing that happens. Since lets face it.... nobody want to hear or read a story how a mining corp defeated another mining corp by mining the last rock in a belt. It is like watching golf... about as exciting as watching flies fornicate.

Let me say that again. There were alot more corps declaring war and ganking in the past then they do now. Wars are more expensive and ganking is alot harder then it used to be.

You wish it was this good back then.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-04-21 18:44:49 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
lots of mindless drivel


If you are playing soccer and your goalkeeper spends his game watching Netflix....

Pfffftchhh...


You sound like you are still stuck in 2008 to me. Can baiting? Doesn't exist anymore.

Besides the fact that you can pull info from all these outside sources and studies, how much info do you actually pull from inside the game you claim to play? It doesn't sound like a lot. The victims in highsec that continually get reamed are the ones that allow it to happen to them through cowardice or willful ignorance. Highsec is such a small chunk of space, and everyone knows it is tainted meat, so why bother trying to stick around it?

You can sit here and moan about griefing all day long, but if people aren't willing to help themselves, how could you possibly help them?

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.

Sykaotic
Doomheim
#58 - 2014-04-21 18:51:48 UTC
Good to see the C and P peeps chime in and nice name Kane.... my alt name in 2008 was Cannibal Lector and I take this is your alt as your 1st kill on BC is in 2010 yet you speak of 2008?

Anyways, no I am speaking of whats going on in game compared to 2008 in game, not a blog etc. The community as a whole should really take a look at it. I am, OP is CCP is.

Take Care
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#59 - 2014-04-21 19:01:20 UTC
kane has recently changed hands, bear this in mind.
Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-04-21 19:05:15 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
Good to see the C and P peeps chime in and nice name Kane.... my alt name in 2008 was Cannibal Lector and I take this is your alt as your 1st kill on BC is in 2010 yet you speak of 2008?

Anyways, no I am speaking of whats going on in game compared to 2008 in game, not a blog etc. The community as a whole should really take a look at it. I am, OP is CCP is.

Take Care

People (new people) have always complained about how hard this game can be, and how mean people can be. OP's post isn't new or novel, and the only reason why this suddenly became a big deal is because Teg (a CSM member) screamed bloody murder over E1's bonus room recordings. Now everything people don't like about interplayer activity is apparently up for grabs so we can make this a friendlier game for everyone according to personal preferences that differ greatly from person to person. If you ask me, there is a giant disconnect between peoples' expectations and what the game has traditionally been, a sandbox where your fate is caused by your own choices.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.