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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Wardecing..an easy way to get new players to stop playing

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Author
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#21 - 2014-04-19 05:18:43 UTC
Quote:
8. New player bashing will not be tolerated.

New members of the EVE Online community are encouraged to use, but are not restricted to the EVE New Citizens Q&A forum. This forum is specifically designed to provide a platform for those who are new to the EVE community to ask questions and learn more about EVE. More experienced forum users are encouraged to participate by assisting new players with helpful and courteous responses. All flaming, trolling and posts of a derogatory nature will be deleted, and will be considered a severe breach of the forum rules.

Removed a post dealing with this.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-04-19 07:24:57 UTC
as has been stated numerous times, you have quite a few options. i will list some of them in order of personal preference:
- get a few cheap ships and fight back. even if you get massackered, you will take something away from the experience.
- if your corp is unwilling to fight back, you should probably look out for another one.
- move out of highsec. if anyone can shoot you anyway, wardecs become much less scary and chances are, the guys who wardecced you will be too scared to follow you because they are the EVE equivalent of schoolyard bullies.

if you prefer to sit in station and complain rather than following any of the advice you got in this thread, EVE might actually not be the right game for you (no offense).

I should buy an Ishtar.

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#23 - 2014-04-19 08:35:58 UTC
Generally speaking, if your corp is demanding that you dock up and do nothing in response to a war-dec, then you should find another corp to join.

Yes, I'm sure they're nice people and all, but the purpose of a corporation is asset-sharing and mutual protection, essentially responding to external threats exactly like war-decs is the vast majority of the reason corps are a thing to begin with, and if they aren't even trying to do so they're the very definition of a bad corp.

So either convince your corp to do something about it (fighting back in an orderly fashion would be my vote, but relocating or simply shifting your income-stream or paying another corp for protection are legitimate as well) or leave, join an NPC corp or a different player corp, and just make a restricted chat channel in which to talk to your old corp-mates. After all, a chat channel was apparently all you were really getting out of the corporation to begin with.
Lysenko Alland
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#24 - 2014-04-19 09:50:25 UTC
Choo Kiko Wapi wrote:
in the roughly 2 months i've played this game. my alliance and corp has been wardeced 3 times. thats 3 weeks of staying docked up. why should i continue paying for this game i cant play?


My corporation, which is focused on small-gang PvP, mostly operates out of a major trade hub that a few high-sec mercenary alliances love to camp systematically. We wind up with a wardec from one or two of them every month or so. It doesn't really stop anything we're doing.

Here are a few basic tips that may help:

1) Make an out of corp alt that sits in your station. The alt doesn't have to have anything more than default skills, and can even be on the same account as your main, but leave the alt in an NPC corp. If you're concerned about being camped in station, undock your alt and check things out first. Set a negative standing on your war target corp or alliance so your alt can see them lit up red.

2) When things are very quiet, undock from the station you live in and hit the + sign on your throttle dial to set your speed to max. Let your ship fly off in a straight line for a while. Make some bookmarks. These are known as "insta-undock" bookmarks. When you undock, you have a period of time during which (IF YOU ISSUE NO COMMANDS TO YOUR SHIP) you'll remain invulnerable. You'll also be traveling near max speed. If the FIRST command you issue to your ship is to warp off in the direction you're traveling, you will go from invulnerable to warping instantly, and nobody can catch you. Having instas for stations you use frequently is a huge help.

3) Make some bookmarks at both spots in between celestials in your system ("safe spots") to which you can run when you're being chased, or places that are on-grid from gates but 150+ km off, so that you can check out a gate before landing on it.

4) Watch local. If there are no war targets in local (and you're not in a WH) you won't have war target problems.

There are many techniques to survival, but those are some to get you started. Once they become second nature, wars won't really affect anything you do unless you want to engage a war target or get caught in a highly-coordinated gate camp, which is pretty rare from groups that wardec in high-sec.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#25 - 2014-04-19 12:28:40 UTC
This game is full of people who have this lazy and catatonic reaction to anything that comes along their way, actively choosing to not learn, not advance and not taking responsibility. Effectively they're cattle because they choose to be victims, but if you're tired of being a victim (or simply refuse to become one) then all you have to do is to stop being passive, stop thinking like cattle.

The second you become active and start looking for solutions to a problem or ways to avoid the problem in the first place is the second people will stop being able to take advantage of you. The problem is that, most people being cattle, most corporations are terrible traps where lazy/dumb people stick around and drag everyone in their group down to their level, even the ones who might be able to do better/more. So if your CEO and/or the majority of the corp start whining and telling everyone to dock up for the week then you're obviously in the wrong corp as it's filled with clueless cattle who will only hold you back.

Leave them, they can't be helped. Learn to how not to be a target and find a better group of people.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#26 - 2014-04-19 15:04:24 UTC
Grab an exploration frigate and head out to lowsec. You'll lose a few ships (and maybe a few pods) but along the way you'll end up learning that lowsec isn't as scary as people make it out to be.

Just be prepared to lose a few ships, and then when you don't lose any that will be a pleasant surprise :)

Don't fight back against the wardeccers in hi sec. They don't deserve that kind of respect. Fighting them only gives them the attention they are so desperately seeking.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#27 - 2014-04-19 18:05:11 UTC
Lysenko Alland wrote:
Choo Kiko Wapi wrote:
in the roughly 2 months i've played this game. my alliance and corp has been wardeced 3 times. thats 3 weeks of staying docked up. why should i continue paying for this game i cant play?


My corporation, which is focused on small-gang PvP, mostly operates out of a major trade hub that a few high-sec mercenary alliances love to camp systematically. We wind up with a wardec from one or two of them every month or so. It doesn't really stop anything we're doing.

Here are a few basic tips that may help:

1) Make an out of corp alt that sits in your station. The alt doesn't have to have anything more than default skills, and can even be on the same account as your main, but leave the alt in an NPC corp. If you're concerned about being camped in station, undock your alt and check things out first. Set a negative standing on your war target corp or alliance so your alt can see them lit up red.

2) When things are very quiet, undock from the station you live in and hit the + sign on your throttle dial to set your speed to max. Let your ship fly off in a straight line for a while. Make some bookmarks. These are known as "insta-undock" bookmarks. When you undock, you have a period of time during which (IF YOU ISSUE NO COMMANDS TO YOUR SHIP) you'll remain invulnerable. You'll also be traveling near max speed. If the FIRST command you issue to your ship is to warp off in the direction you're traveling, you will go from invulnerable to warping instantly, and nobody can catch you. Having instas for stations you use frequently is a huge help.

3) Make some bookmarks at both spots in between celestials in your system ("safe spots") to which you can run when you're being chased, or places that are on-grid from gates but 150+ km off, so that you can check out a gate before landing on it.

4) Watch local. If there are no war targets in local (and you're not in a WH) you won't have war target problems.

There are many techniques to survival, but those are some to get you started. Once they become second nature, wars won't really affect anything you do unless you want to engage a war target or get caught in a highly-coordinated gate camp, which is pretty rare from groups that wardec in high-sec.


Just wanted to add that you want the insta-undock warp to be over 150+ km. Any lower than that and you won't be able to initiate warp. I recommend flying until you're 300 km out from the station. It's worked well for me.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#28 - 2014-04-19 22:06:37 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:

Just wanted to add that you want the insta-undock warp to be over 150+ km. Any lower than that and you won't be able to initiate warp. I recommend flying until you're 300 km out from the station. It's worked well for me.



I suggest you make two.

One that is "on-grid". which means more than 150km and less than 200km. From this, you can see the station clearly.

And a second that is "off-grid", i.e. far enough away that you cannot be seen by ships on the station. If you can pilot an Interceptor, make these at 2000km or more by just turning on your microwarpdrive and flying straight for ten minutes (just before you have a shower is the ideal time).

If you do not have access to interceptors, some destroyers can fit 10mn microwarpdrives and capacitor boosters - this may be an option to get to 1000km away without taking an eternity.

By being so far away, you pretty much guarantee that people hunting you will not accidentally find you. By never staying in your off-grid safe for more than 10 seconds, you pretty much guarantee that they will not probe your safe down.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#29 - 2014-04-20 04:23:48 UTC
We began this month with another wardec.

What I did:
* Prepared for war.
* Researched my opponents.
* Modified my gameplay to reduce unnecessary risks (be more paranoid than usual).

Otherwise it was business as usual.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-04-20 05:33:41 UTC
A key problem with trying to 'protect newbs' is that in Eve, there is no clear distinction between newb and older care bear. In most MMO's the rewards available in level-specific areas simply run out if a player stays there farming.
Not so in Eve. In Eve, players can essentially squat in what would be newb territory, and still 'succeed' in the game. Many care bears spend years in this game and never see anything below a .5 system.

Since this is just a game, with the ability to run multiple identities, even accounts, there is no way to tell a newb from an experienced player just running low SP alts. Quite simply- care bears all look the same to us.

Don't complain that one of the CORE fundamental principals of Eve Online is the problem- the game was created from the start as PvP in all it's facets. Instead, blame the care bears forever squatting in high sec space, in territory they literally started the game in, doing the same thing newbs do on their first day. Blame CCP for having such poor risk versus reward balance that players can basically just farm alongside new players and still 'win' at the game. At least chinese gold farmers in other MMOs need to leave the newb areas to do their thing.

New players mistake high sec for 'new player space'.....if only that were true. Instead, it's actually the most lucrative part of New Eden. Care bears fly the shiniest ships, single purposed for PvE making them easy targets. They don't bother with learning anything beyond targeting rocks or red crosses and spamming F1, making knowledge of game mechanics a weapon against them. It's a 'target rich environment' for easy kills.





Ethikos
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-04-20 06:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ethikos
This has been stated above in various posts, but just to summarize for new players reading ... There are a couple of options for dealing with War Decs as a newer player. The first step is to understand how the War Dec works mechanic wise. The corp War Decing you is utilizing a valid in game mechanic. While war is declared, the players of the corporation declaring war on your corporation can attack you anywhere (ie High Sec) without consequence from Concord / Gate Guns / Etc. It does cost money to declare war in game, but the price is not really that high. If you want more details on the war declaration mechanics read this https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wars.

Now that the mechanics are covered, understand how War Decs are often utilized in High Sec. There are some corporations that specialize in declaring war on various High Sec corporations. These War Decs corporations typically fly higher end / expensive ships with set ups geared to fighting ships caught in High Sec. The War Dec pilots know they are engaging in a controlled PvP setting as they can pick their target while being safe from everyone else in the High Sec system. In other words the War Dec pilots can engage their war targets in High Sec, but if someone not at war with the War Dec pilots attacks the War Dec pilots in High Sec that someone will die to Concord. This is compounded by the perception that a lot of High Sec pilots dont like / understand PvP and therefore are easier targets. Some of these War Dec corporations like to take this a step further and declare war on relatively weak / new corporations. The idea for the new corporation war is to run up the kill stats without really risking anything.

With this understood, you can start looking at ways to deal with the War Dec. Fighting back is always an option I would encourage. Cheap frigates / cruisers can take down shiny ships with some numbers. If that is a no go due to small numbers, moving to low sec is also a good idea. Particularly Faction Warfare low sec. In low sec anyone can attack anyone. The only consequences are gate guns (a cruiser can tank these for a bit, easily with logi) and hits to your sec status. This means that if a War Declaration corp wants to follow you in low sec, they have to protect their shiny ships from everyone else in the area in addition to hunting you. This good news is compounded by the reality that T1 frigates & cruisers can do just fine in FW low sec.

Finally, the approach I recommended the most for a new player is to join a new player friendly large group. EvE Uni, Brave Newbies, Red vs Blue. All of these corporations are friendly to new players, can teach you how to deal with War Decs as well as a lot of other aspects of EvE, and ensure you have a lot of friends to fly with. Hope this gives some ideas on how to deal with a War Dec.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#32 - 2014-04-20 07:07:14 UTC
Ethikos wrote:
The idea for the new corporation war is to run up the kill stats without really risking anything.

I would just like to point out that War decs are not always geared towards racking up kill stats (though it usually stays as one of the higher priorities). Sometimes they are done for...

- "funsies" just to see if they can get a decent fight out of it (one that they generally intend on winning of course)
- to make an "example" out of a mouthy person (there are consequences for everything in this game!)
- the ISK (ex. sometimes smashing moon-based Player Owned Starbases can be quite profitable. Always check to make sure someone has not set up a POS that you know nothing about)

Ethikos wrote:
Finally, the approach I recommended the most for a new player is to join a new player friendly large group. EvE Uni, Brave Newbies, Red vs Blue. All of these corporations are friendly to new players, can teach you how to deal with War Decs as well as a lot of other aspects of EvE, and ensure you have a lot of friends to fly with. Hope this gives some ideas on how to deal with a War Dec.

I would actually not recommend EVE Uni for learning how to deal with War-decs. Unless something has changed with them, I remember their SOP (Standard Operation Procedure) as being to stay docked at all times unless a dedicated Fleet Commander is online to organize a response.
Katrinna Voight-Kampf
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-04-20 09:12:39 UTC
The problem with wardecs is that they are so easy to avoid.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#34 - 2014-04-20 09:33:14 UTC
Choo Kiko Wapi wrote:
in the roughly 2 months i've played this game. my alliance and corp has been wardeced 3 times. thats 3 weeks of staying docked up. why should i continue paying for this game i cant play?


You shouldn't

You openly admit that you cannot play while wardecced. Considering the huge amount of methods others employ in dealing with this as well as their ability to employ them, compounded by the fact some of these guys are 1 day old players... You're just not cutting it.

It happens
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#35 - 2014-04-20 11:46:52 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

I would actually not recommend EVE Uni for learning how to deal with War-decs. Unless something has changed with them, I remember their SOP (Standard Operation Procedure) as being to stay docked at all times unless a dedicated Fleet Commander is online to organize a response.


That's about 2 year old information. For some time now the Uni has been letting students do what they please during wars. It is still not the greatest place to learn about wardecs, though, mainly because of a prevailing attitude among the leadership that they feel wardecs are just a broken mechanic and not worthy of being taught. It's a shame because wars are actually pretty awesome, in my opinion.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!

Ethikos
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-04-20 13:01:22 UTC
The former EvE Uni FCs I have talked to in Waffles spoke about nightly roams and forming specifically to hit war targets. Assumed that was fairly standard in the Uni. Still, the main point is to find a new player friendly group to help you out.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-04-20 15:05:10 UTC
I will admit that I'm probably no judge but there are a lot of ways of avoiding war dec (though not if they're effecting the null sec supply line) but for those saying new players should fight back, remember this.

Most professional war decers I've seen use t3 and other high tier ships. Do you really expect a bunch of new players with subpar (both in terms of dps and tank) T1 cruisers and perhaps battlecruisers to be able to fight against a squad of t3 ships and win? Apart from ewar there really isn't anything the new players can do.

Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#38 - 2014-04-20 15:08:17 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I will admit that I'm probably no judge but there are a lot of ways of avoiding war dec (though not if they're effecting the null sec supply line) but for those saying new players should fight back, remember this.

Most professional war decers I've seen use t3 and other high tier ships. Do you really expect a bunch of new players with subpar (both in terms of dps and tank) T1 cruisers and perhaps battlecruisers to be able to fight against a squad of t3 ships and win? Apart from ewar there really isn't anything the new players can do.

Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.

History has proved that enough newbies in frigates, destroyers and cruisers can kill any ship in Eve.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#39 - 2014-04-20 15:15:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Zero
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I will admit that I'm probably no judge but there are a lot of ways of avoiding war dec (though not if they're effecting the null sec supply line) but for those saying new players should fight back, remember this.

Most professional war decers I've seen use t3 and other high tier ships. Do you really expect a bunch of new players with subpar (both in terms of dps and tank) T1 cruisers and perhaps battlecruisers to be able to fight against a squad of t3 ships and win? Apart from ewar there really isn't anything the new players can do.

Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.


T3 ships aren't invincible. Other "high tier ships" aren't either. Eventually, your opponent will make a mistake, and when they do, their single loss will more than cover the cost of all of yours up until that point if you're using T1 frigates/cruisers/battlecruisers. In any event, the point isn't even about the ISK, it's about the experience you'll get from the fight.

Also, "professional war decers" lol. Most of them only use pricey ships when they believe they have nothing to fear. And, even then, they make mistakes and lose those pricey ships, too.

As a new player, I assisted an older player in establishing a point on an enemy flying a Dramiel (a pirate frigate) long enough for my fleet to warp to me, get scrams and webs on the target, and destroy them. I was flying a Rifter, and had very few skill points. Yes, it was mostly luck on my part, but it's still possible. Don't discount the newbies out there.

My Rifter?

150mm AC I (x3)
1MN MWD
Warp Disruptor I
Medium Shield Extender
Overdrive
Damage Control
Power Diagnostic System

On paper, it shouldn't have even been a contest, but I had friends backing me up (in T1 ships, btw), and the Dramiel pilot only wanted to get away (which he couldn't do). End result? We lost a couple of T1 frigates, and he lost a pirate frigate. I gained some experience, and some confidence, both of which are worth more than the 1m my Rifter cost me. Cool

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-04-20 15:34:30 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I will admit that I'm probably no judge but there are a lot of ways of avoiding war dec (though not if they're effecting the null sec supply line) but for those saying new players should fight back, remember this.

Most professional war decers I've seen use t3 and other high tier ships. Do you really expect a bunch of new players with subpar (both in terms of dps and tank) T1 cruisers and perhaps battlecruisers to be able to fight against a squad of t3 ships and win? Apart from ewar there really isn't anything the new players can do.

Yes if know people say every player is viable in pvp from day 1 but usually that assisting a more experience/skilled player. That new player isn't going to do anything on his own.


It is amazing how bad a webbed, pointed, neuted, jammed, sensor damped T3 cruiser is.
Enough neuts and you will turn off its tank and if it is hybrid /lazor its dps also.
Long webs and sensor damps and u can orbit out of its lock range and free fire.
Enough ECM and you can sit at zero blasting away (griffin and ECM quick to train as i blackbird)
Enough logi and you will never die (scythe and burst can be trained very fast)
Enough alpha can break anything. (Try an arty rupture or even thrashers)

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85