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Assault Battleships
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#61 - 2014-06-11 16:52:55 UTC
While I appreciate your attention to detail and overall thoroughness, I have to oppose this idea. Yes, these Assault Battleships fill a role, but it's a role that's already largely filled by the Attack Battlecruisers. The last tier of T2 Battleships needs to fill a role that A) is necessary/useful and B) not already filled by something else.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#62 - 2014-06-11 17:10:11 UTC
Sis...you lost the case when you named minmatar battleships oblivion and ganesha.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-06-11 18:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
A4443 Suicide Gank wrote:


I know, that the Mega is already used as a kronos, but i want to avoid, that there are two ships with exxactly the same modell and textures. I first tought on a duvolle or roden shipyard domi, but these two corps dont make droneships


EDIT: nvm, sin is blue :)

However i would not be opposed to neon green, color is a detail :)
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#64 - 2014-06-11 18:06:34 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
While I appreciate your attention to detail and overall thoroughness, I have to oppose this idea. Yes, these Assault Battleships fill a role, but it's a role that's already largely filled by the Attack Battlecruisers. The last tier of T2 Battleships needs to fill a role that A) is necessary/useful and B) not already filled by something else.



ABS, can use capital weapon, with slow mobility. (-20% to agility/warp speed?)
Iain Cariaba
#65 - 2014-06-11 19:08:13 UTC
unidenify wrote:
ABS, can use capital weapon, with slow mobility. (-20% to agility/warp speed?)

Just what the game needs, another way to increase alpha fleets.

On the other hand, I can already hear the freighter pilots screaming at this.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2014-06-11 19:46:33 UTC
A4443 Suicide Gank wrote:
These ships are ways different from hacs:

- hacs are more focused on tank ( most of them have a tanking bonus), the assault battleships are more focused on mobility.
- most of the hacs have utillity hi slots, assault battleships dont have that (turret hardpoint amount is equal to the amount of hi slots) except the gallapagos, wich is a droneboat
- hacs have 10% more warpspeed than cruisers, assault battleships have 37.5% more warpspeed than battleships (means they have the same warp speed as command ships)

Actually, the MWD sig bloom role bonus on HACs combined with their good agility for their power focuses them on mobility as well as tank. Also full T2 resist on a BS sized HP pool makes the ship tank focused no matter what the hull bonuses might be.

The lack of utility highs doesn't really mean all that much when you have so much raw tank and spank. Besides with the large DPS, projection, and application bonuses on the hulls you can easily drop a gun for a neut and still put out serious DPS. And then there is the drone boat and its lack of need for turrets at all.

The fact that they warp as fast as a ship a full size class down is seriously powerful mobility on its own.

I stand by my conclusion that these are BS sized HACs and they would render normal tech 1 battleships redundant.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2014-06-11 20:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
How about a line of cross-faction battleships? Missile Abaddon, Laser Rokh, Drone Maelstrom, and Projectile Hyperion


If you don't like that, how about take the current 4 battleships, strip their damage bonuses, and give them better application bonuses. We don't have any hulls with a bonus to gun resolution, how about we do that? I bet a lot of players forgot gun resolution even exists.

So for example, Abaddon can have armor resist, gun resolution, gun tracking speed, and maybe something to do with targeting. Either targeting range or targeting resolution.

Just trying to be creative and unique here while trying avoid just having "super HACs" Roll
Also I'm just looking for ANY excuse to get CCP to make a T2 Abaddon
A4443 Suicide Gank
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#68 - 2014-06-14 09:07:18 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
How about a line of cross-faction battleships? Missile Abaddon, Laser Rokh, Drone Maelstrom, and Projectile Hyperion


If you don't like that, how about take the current 4 battleships, strip their damage bonuses, and give them better application bonuses. We don't have any hulls with a bonus to gun resolution, how about we do that? I bet a lot of players forgot gun resolution even exists.

So for example, Abaddon can have armor resist, gun resolution, gun tracking speed, and maybe something to do with targeting. Either targeting range or targeting resolution.

Just trying to be creative and unique here while trying avoid just having "super HACs" Roll
Also I'm just looking for ANY excuse to get CCP to make a T2 Abaddon



a 7.5% bonus to tracking brings more than a 5% gun resolution.

a example: large turrets have 400m signatureradius and how smaller the signatureradius of the target is, how lower the tracking gets. Lets say a large weapon has 1 rad/sec tracking speed and its target has 200m signature radius. Then the tracking gets reduced to 0.5 rad/sec

If it has a 7.5% bonus to tracking speed, it gets 1.375 rad/sec tracking speed and with 200m signatureradius, than it has 0.6875 rad/sec.

If it has a 5% gun resolution bonus, it keeps 1 rad/sec for 300m targets, but looses 33% for a 200m target, than it has 0.6666 rad/sec tracking.

This means, a tracking bonus brings more than a gun resolution bonus.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-06-14 13:37:58 UTC
A. My idea was to have multiple application bonuses on the hull so it isn't like you're choosing between the two.

B. So make it 7.5%
Leila Kobra
Commando 9
#70 - 2014-06-14 13:45:19 UTC
If I remember correctly, CCP Rise oppinion on that matter is: No
A4443 Suicide Gank
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#71 - 2014-06-14 16:39:08 UTC
Leila Kobra wrote:
If I remember correctly, CCP Rise oppinion on that matter is: No


can you please confirm that?
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#72 - 2014-06-15 15:06:25 UTC
Nice to see a good discussion in here, I'll try to contribute.

On T2 battleships, right now we have Black Ops -which can cloak easily and brigde other ships- and Marauders -which can deal and shrug off a good beating, although only in Bastion Mode which makes them inmobile and unsupportable. These ships already use up 2 of the 3 avaliable BS models. I'd suggest the new ones to use that 3rd yer unused model: Maelstrom, Abaddon, Rokh and Hyperion.

I like the idea of heavy assault battleships ("HAB's"). The MWD role bonus would put them in the line of their smaller cousins and help them be fast without having to put an overly high base speed on their stats. Since smaller assault ships have 2 ships with the same model, each one using one of the 2 weapon choices of their empire, I'd say to have 2 of each (a total of 8) with the hulls I mentioned before (I think they really need some love).

Now, the problem is to make new ships whose role doesn't overlap with the other ones, which provide new possibilities. I'd like to see these battleships as, well, BATTLESHIPS, which means heavy combat capability. But if these ships go the HAB way, they should not overlap with Marauders. Those ones need to be stationary (bastion mode) in order to really shine, and are ECM vulnerable, which makes the useful only in PVE, and only in same cases since in bastion mode they rely on themselves. HABs should be more mobile that Marauders while being tanky and ganky enough, so they can see more uses in PVP, for example. That said, the problem would be to avoid making them better that Marauders at pretty much everything.

Other ideas? Well, I have one... Nestor-style! Marauders are oriented in self-protection; what about BS with nice range+amount role bonuses for RR? While having their T2 resists and lots of guns. Perhaps not many hitpoints. They could form up a good fleet doctrine of spider tanking, useful in many situations.

Other ideas could be: able to fit XL turrets, specialized in smartbombs...

Right now I haven't come into any completely new, "out of the box" ideas; I'll post again later if I get one.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#73 - 2014-06-15 16:22:41 UTC
We don't need BS-sized HACs... Every developer has said that, most recently in the Marauders announcement thread.

Identify a NEED, not a WANT, then figure out how to implement it without power creep.

Then remember that everything comes at a price. These ships, if they are ever introduced, will come prenerfed.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-06-15 18:26:57 UTC
What I need is a Khanid or Carthum Abaddon. I don't care how it happens.Lol
A4443 Suicide Gank
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#75 - 2014-06-21 14:36:13 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:
Nice to see a good discussion in here, I'll try to contribute.

On T2 battleships, right now we have Black Ops -which can cloak easily and brigde other ships- and Marauders -which can deal and shrug off a good beating, although only in Bastion Mode which makes them inmobile and unsupportable. These ships already use up 2 of the 3 avaliable BS models. I'd suggest the new ones to use that 3rd yer unused model: Maelstrom, Abaddon, Rokh and Hyperion.

I like the idea of heavy assault battleships ("HAB's"). The MWD role bonus would put them in the line of their smaller cousins and help them be fast without having to put an overly high base speed on their stats. Since smaller assault ships have 2 ships with the same model, each one using one of the 2 weapon choices of their empire, I'd say to have 2 of each (a total of 8) with the hulls I mentioned before (I think they really need some love).

Now, the problem is to make new ships whose role doesn't overlap with the other ones, which provide new possibilities. I'd like to see these battleships as, well, BATTLESHIPS, which means heavy combat capability. But if these ships go the HAB way, they should not overlap with Marauders. Those ones need to be stationary (bastion mode) in order to really shine, and are ECM vulnerable, which makes the useful only in PVE, and only in same cases since in bastion mode they rely on themselves. HABs should be more mobile that Marauders while being tanky and ganky enough, so they can see more uses in PVP, for example. That said, the problem would be to avoid making them better that Marauders at pretty much everything.

Other ideas? Well, I have one... Nestor-style! Marauders are oriented in self-protection; what about BS with nice range+amount role bonuses for RR? While having their T2 resists and lots of guns. Perhaps not many hitpoints. They could form up a good fleet doctrine of spider tanking, useful in many situations.

Other ideas could be: able to fit XL turrets, specialized in smartbombs...

Right now I haven't come into any completely new, "out of the box" ideas; I'll post again later if I get one.



I think, that ships, that can fit XL turrets are similar to tier 3 battlecruisers, that can fit large turrets. But before CCP introduce that, we may see destroyers that can fit cruiser sized turrets with mobillity of a frigate.

RR battleships are nice, but before ccp introduce that, we likely see RR frigates, wich got proposed very often here. However, I think, that in most situations. logistics are more usefull than RR battleships, because they are cheaper and faster. The nestor is a RR battleship, but is very rarely used.(I just spotted a few since rubicon release).

Smartbomb ships could be nice, but smartbombs do generally low dps and always apply full damage regardless of signature radius of the targets. before introduce Smartbomb ships, CCP should rebalance smartbombs first.

My proposed assault battleships are another combat line of ships, wich are made for very fast attack on large fleets and deal and apply more damage than marauders. Marauders are more focused on thank and are ewar imune when in bastion module. And these ships still have 3 hi-slots for uttillity stuff such as neuts or loot modules. My assault battleships dont have uttility hi-slots, have less cargospace and have less hitpoints as well as no tanking bonus)
So, the roles of abs are very different from marauders.

Compare:

- good mobility, good damage projection and paper damage as well as very good capacitor management

vs

- bad mobility, lots of utillity hi-slots, acceptable damage, not best application and low capacitor
Teri Cox
Doomheim
#76 - 2014-07-12 11:44:21 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
We don't need BS-sized HACs... Every developer has said that, most recently in the Marauders announcement thread.

Identify a NEED, not a WANT, then figure out how to implement it without power creep.

Then remember that everything comes at a price. These ships, if they are ever introduced, will come prenerfed.




why is there no need for bs sized hacs? We have frigate, cruiser and battlecruiser sized hacs, and we are missing destroyer and battleships sized hacs. Just to complete the assault ship line completly. Assault frigates are more for long lasting frigate fights, hacs are for fast attacks on battleships and command ships are for long lasting fights. Why no assault ships for fast attacks on capital ships and poses?
Capt Harlock
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#77 - 2014-07-12 18:23:34 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
The only additiona lT2 battleship I would be interested in is a "Triage BS".

This would be similar to a Marauder with MJD bonuses and have a battleship Triage module with a 60 second timer.

For example:

Hyperion Hull [Unknown Name]

7 lows 4 mids 8 highs [4 turrets]

Gallente BS bonus:
10% Hybrid Damage
10% Hybrid Falloff

Triage BS Bonus:
7.5% bouns to local and remote armour repair amount
20% Bonus to remote armour repair range

Role Bonus:
70% reduction in MJD reactivation delay
100% Bonus to remote Armour repair range
can fit Battleship Triage

Battleship Triage Module:
Speed -100%
Armour Repair/Shield Boost +100% (Local and Remote)
Max targets +4
Can not receive any remote assistance whilst in Triage
Immune to EWAR (excluding Neuts/Nos) whilst in Triage


Basically, a [mini] triage carrier (without fighters) with some offensive capabilities and good mobility (MJD) with Battleship EHP.

That's the only

i would dig a triage bs for sure!!!

on the other posts, the hac bs IS a specialty role.
just saying.

this hac bs class has been brought up time and again. i want one, but the cost would be close to 1.5 bill.

i dont know about your ideas, i wont comment on that, but having more khanid amarr ships would rawk.
i would love to see the tier 3 bs line get a spec role.

khanid torpedo boats would own..

lets get back to the triage bs. i dont think we would use a triage more on it. just a logi bs would be better, like the nestor, but with logi bs bonuses similar to logi cruisers. maybe the ability to fit cap reppers and whatnot and go help rep pocos in high sec. =)
or help rep in cap fleet fights.
they would be primaried of course.
Saelem Black
Cog Banking
#78 - 2014-07-12 19:08:40 UTC
Hmm, while I like the idea in principle, I don't think it is to the game's advantage. We already have a lot of top tier BSs. If anything, I think that the discussion should wait until after the blackops balance. It has been hinted that there may be two blackops per race, one specializing much in the way you have described, but with less tank, and the other for ewar support.
Grezh
Hextrix Enterprise
#79 - 2014-07-12 23:45:57 UTC
T2 battleships cost about the same as pirate battleships, with ccp stating that they want T2 to be better at certain tasks with faction ships. The sig bloom reduction on assault frigs and cruisers let the have better tank against larger ship weapons, and while a T2 bs with this bonus would be able to reduce capital ship weapon damage, it would only really work for long range ships since extra large weapons have terrible tracking.
A4443 Suicide Gank
Summer of Mumuit
Remember Mumuit
#80 - 2014-07-16 15:04:57 UTC
Saelem Black wrote:
Hmm, while I like the idea in principle, I don't think it is to the game's advantage. We already have a lot of top tier BSs. If anything, I think that the discussion should wait until after the blackops balance. It has been hinted that there may be two blackops per race, one specializing much in the way you have described, but with less tank, and the other for ewar support.




As I read in an old post (2012) CCP said, that they will add a new line of T2 battleships, while the Black ops remain as Ewar support.