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Need a subcap for fighting Supercaps and caps: Nuclear Submarine

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Golem Master
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-04-18 08:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Golem Master
Give the ability to reduce rezistents per shoot to titans. This will only effective against capitals size

Give the ability to increase rezistents to super carriers lets say for 1 min with a CD of 10 min

Give the ability to rep 100% more for 1 min to carriers with a 30min CD.

Give the ability to increase 50% dmg or rate of fire for 1 min with CD of 30 min to dreads.

Reduce 50% dmg to cruiser,frigates,destr hulls against capital size.

Reduce 30% dmg to t1 bs against capitals size.

Increase 20% dmg to black ops against cap size.

Increase 20% dmg to marauders against cap size.

T3 ships let them the same .

This will reduce ganks in hi sec to frighters

Cap fleets will figth another cap fleet

Will be hard to gank carriers without cap suport

BO&Marauders will be more on batllefield

Supercaps will be a lot more useful on batlle field.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-04-18 10:15:41 UTC
I'm not for this idea but a question to the 'risk-reward' people: what are your thoughts on a few catalysts being able to destroy a hulk? A genuine question.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-04-18 15:38:58 UTC
OP:

No.

/thread

Jake Warbird wrote:
I'm not for this idea but a question to the 'risk-reward' people: what are your thoughts on a few catalysts being able to destroy a hulk? A genuine question.


There's ways to tank a Barge so ganking them becomes unprofitable. Hulk should only be used in absolute safety (which isn't high sec).
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-04-18 22:47:29 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
OP:

No.

/thread

Jake Warbird wrote:
I'm not for this idea but a question to the 'risk-reward' people: what are your thoughts on a few catalysts being able to destroy a hulk? A genuine question.


There's ways to tank a Barge so ganking them becomes unprofitable. Hulk should only be used in absolute safety (which isn't high sec).

Ganking a Hulk has never been profitable, it's simply about depriving the other guy of cash.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#25 - 2014-04-18 23:13:30 UTC
Giving dread class guns/missiles to subcap hull like BC or BS seems fine. Other stuff in this thread is total nonsense.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-04-19 06:48:21 UTC
Golem Master
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-04-19 10:31:11 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
Giving dread class guns/missiles to subcap hull like BC or BS seems fine. Other stuff in this thread is total nonsense.


How in the world will you give gun/missle dred clas to a BC or BS ?

Then we also should give fighters/bomber to BC BS ¿?

And then ccp will need to remove titans, carieres, supercariers bcoz they wont be usefull anymore .

dumm ideea
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-04-19 10:34:22 UTC
Golem Master wrote:
Oska Rus wrote:
Giving dread class guns/missiles to subcap hull like BC or BS seems fine. Other stuff in this thread is total nonsense.


How in the world will you give gun/missle dred clas to a BC or BS ?

Then we also should give fighters/bomber to BC BS ¿?

And then ccp will need to remove titans, carieres, supercariers bcoz they wont be usefull anymore .

dumm ideea


There is precedent. SB's (frigates) carry BS weapons. It's not that useful, unless you are shooting at a huge target. The normal trade off is to make whatever you do that to fragile. REALLY fragile.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#29 - 2014-04-19 14:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:


Nice partial quote. I said give it a 2 minute launch time upon activation that prevents the ship from warping off field and slows it's speed by 50%.

If you use your brain and a little logic and with some internal and public testing, many artificial limitations could be put in place to easily curtail what you just mentioned.




Roll

http://i.imgur.com/8MgUE4I.png


Archimedes Eratosthenes wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
So I can fit a doomsday to a subcap



Okay I warp in 10,000 of these and instantly obliterate every capital off the battlefield, then self-destruct the ships and pods. I still win the isk war in half a second.



*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.

What if the enemy do the same?


He also seems to forget that a a near stationary and paper-thin ship that can't warp for 2 minutes when launching the nuke would be extremely vulnerable to sniping fleets. A couple of squads of 425mm Nagas would blap them from 200+km.

But god forbid supercap pilots had to rely on others in subcaps instead of 19 other accounts using ISB boxer.



Enemy drops supercaps > Suicide dictors for 2m, warp in enemy fleet * 15 number of subcap doomsday


The enemy supercap fleet instantly pops, thus making any deployment of supers instantly unviable. But hey, let's say the enemy "sniper" fleet is amazingly talented and employ vodoo magic - Let's say I lose 1500 BC hulls (the enemy has 100 subcaps). That's approximately 120b isk. Of course with 1500 pilots appearing on grid I had to kill something, so let's say I alpha'd a single titan off the field...


also worth 120b isk, but without the significant insurance payout



You might as well have just titled this thread "remove capital ships". A blap dread costs ~2.5b to field, and can MAYBE siege its way into doing a doomsday's worth of damage before it, individually, dies. You want to introduce a BATTLECRUISER HULL that is significantly better than a DREAD in every single way
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#30 - 2014-04-21 08:20:10 UTC
Why not just add resist bombs to the game? Make them very expensive. Or perhaps a skill point loss associated with launching them!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-04-22 03:38:49 UTC
The doomsday idea is stupid. The subcap having a percentage of capital dps however is a good one. Stealth bombers do not do the upper end of battleship dps, they can't be fitted that way so this ship should not be able to pull maximum capital dps. Even a battlecruiser doing half of dread (Moros) dps while being fairly fragile would be potentially okay.

Still seems a bit overpowered, but being a T2 cruiser or battlecruiser hull they would be a couple hundred million isk. It would likely still be more cost effective to drop a bunch of dreads especially since you get insurance payouts unlike a T2 cruiser or battlecruiser hull. I don't think they would be used for fleet fights to be honest. Stealth bomber dps doesn't have a place in fleet fights either, only for bombing runs and to reiterate, the doomsday "nuke" is a stupid idea. They would likely be used to gank ratting capitals and gtfo before retaliation comes.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#32 - 2014-04-22 03:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Loraine Gess
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
The doomsday idea is stupid. The subcap having a percentage of capital dps however is a good one. Stealth bombers do not do the upper end of battleship dps, they can't be fitted that way so this ship should not be able to pull maximum capital dps. Even a battlecruiser doing half of dread (Moros) dps while being fairly fragile would be potentially okay.

Still seems a bit overpowered, but being a T2 cruiser or battlecruiser hull they would be a couple hundred million isk. It would likely still be more cost effective to drop a bunch of dreads especially since you get insurance payouts unlike a T2 cruiser or battlecruiser hull. I don't think they would be used for fleet fights to be honest. Stealth bomber dps doesn't have a place in fleet fights either, only for bombing runs and to reiterate, the doomsday "nuke" is a stupid idea. They would likely be used to gank ratting capitals and gtfo before retaliation comes.




Yes please allow my battlecruiser hull to do 7500 ******* DPS


this can't possibly be a bad idea...


I mean why even fly a command ship? it'd be more cost-effective to always drop one of these on a small gang and simply alpha them out of existence...
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-04-22 03:42:30 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
The doomsday idea is stupid. The subcap having a percentage of capital dps however is a good one. Stealth bombers do not do the upper end of battleship dps, they can't be fitted that way so this ship should not be able to pull maximum capital dps. Even a battlecruiser doing half of dread (Moros) dps while being fairly fragile would be potentially okay.

Still seems a bit overpowered, but being a T2 cruiser or battlecruiser hull they would be a couple hundred million isk. It would likely still be more cost effective to drop a bunch of dreads especially since you get insurance payouts unlike a T2 cruiser or battlecruiser hull. I don't think they would be used for fleet fights to be honest. Stealth bomber dps doesn't have a place in fleet fights either, only for bombing runs and to reiterate, the doomsday "nuke" is a stupid idea. They would likely be used to gank ratting capitals and gtfo before retaliation comes.




Yes please allow my battlecruiser hull to do 7500 ******* DPS


this can't possibly be a bad idea...


I mean why even fly a command ship? it'd be more cost-effective to always drop one of these on a small gang and simply alpha them out of existence...


You are aware that it would be citadel torps, right? We are talking about a counterpart to the stealth bomber.

Inept.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#34 - 2014-04-22 03:51:41 UTC
T2 BC that can fit cap guns or missiles.

Cap guns can't hit sub cap ships for jack already.

Give it only 4 turrets or launchers. (( Adjust as needed, but keep it lean ))
Could have damage bonus to cap weapons only and adjust amount of launchers accordingly.

No need to make it any more glass than other BC's.

It would have higher damage to caps by a decent amount but nothing game breaking.

It would suck compared to T1 BC's v.s. other sub caps.

Stealth could be cool.

Would need a small flight of light drones to help v.s. frigs.

Main concern would be fleet of them with lots of tp's / webs targeting things in high sec for ganks.
Price to produce would need to walk a thin line of usefulness v.s. caps compared to high sec ganks.

350-400 mil range seems about right to me.

Not loving the idea but not hating it either. Just the only way I see it working.
RcTamiya Leontis
Magister Mortalis.
#35 - 2014-04-22 11:56:55 UTC
Imagine this in Wormholes ..... a fleet with cap guns on anything below a cap will instantly turn a solo triage into a useless dustcloud ... however i like the idea of having a counter to capitalblobs in c5 & c6 .... Pirate
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#36 - 2014-04-22 14:26:54 UTC
I've often thought there needs to be a step between BS -> Dreadnaught. Flying Mauraders atm and they are nice (bastion mode is EXCELLENT) i don't think this bridges the gap however.

The idea of making a current hull-size fit oversized weapons could work, but it's a little uninventive... perhaps a new hull size is required to fill the gap, but have it keep racial flavour Examples:

Gallente mini-Carrier: Can field 5 Fighters or Fighter Bombers. Bonus to damage for these and bonus to fitting Warfare Links.
Amarr mini-Carrier. Can field 5 Fighters or Fighter Bombers. Bonus to armor resist and bonus to fitting Warfare Links.
Caldari mini-Dread. Uses a Torpedo sized assault launcher (like' HAM's). Bonus to Assault Torpedo damage/Explo-Radius and bonus to Warfare Links.*
Minmatar mini-Dread. Uses Artillery (think 2500mm, but not 6x 2500 from a Nagl). Bonus to Projectile RoF and bonus to Warfare Links**

*Or to save server lag, a 'shotgun' torp launcher. Uses multiple charges but coded as 1 projectile, Lower ROF, higher alpha. This would have massive fitting Req and only have 1 Launcher slot

**Again, only uses 1 turret slot and the Arty has massive fitting Req.

90% of the time you group guns into 1 or 2 groups for fights. This is a fleet based design idea for large numbers of pilots using up as little CPU time as possible.

With correct balances to tracking/Explosion Rad/Velo these ships wouldn't need to be pre-nerfed with poor tank or fitting and would become a class of ship unto themself
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#37 - 2014-04-22 14:54:56 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
I've often thought there needs to be a step between BS -> Dreadnaught. Flying Mauraders atm and they are nice (bastion mode is EXCELLENT) i don't think this bridges the gap however.

The idea of making a current hull-size fit oversized weapons could work, but it's a little uninventive... perhaps a new hull size is required to fill the gap, but have it keep racial flavour Examples:

Gallente mini-Carrier: Can field 5 Fighters or Fighter Bombers. Bonus to damage for these and bonus to fitting Warfare Links.
Amarr mini-Carrier. Can field 5 Fighters or Fighter Bombers. Bonus to armor resist and bonus to fitting Warfare Links.
Caldari mini-Dread. Uses a Torpedo sized assault launcher (like' HAM's). Bonus to Assault Torpedo damage/Explo-Radius and bonus to Warfare Links.*
Minmatar mini-Dread. Uses Artillery (think 2500mm, but not 6x 2500 from a Nagl). Bonus to Projectile RoF and bonus to Warfare Links**

*Or to save server lag, a 'shotgun' torp launcher. Uses multiple charges but coded as 1 projectile, Lower ROF, higher alpha. This would have massive fitting Req and only have 1 Launcher slot

**Again, only uses 1 turret slot and the Arty has massive fitting Req.

90% of the time you group guns into 1 or 2 groups for fights. This is a fleet based design idea for large numbers of pilots using up as little CPU time as possible.

With correct balances to tracking/Explosion Rad/Velo these ships wouldn't need to be pre-nerfed with poor tank or fitting and would become a class of ship unto themself




Please list 1 way that fitting capital weapons to subcaps will improve the game
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-04-22 19:15:09 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
I've often thought there needs to be a step between BS -> Dreadnaught. Flying Mauraders atm and they are nice (bastion mode is EXCELLENT) i don't think this bridges the gap however.

The idea of making a current hull-size fit oversized weapons could work, but it's a little uninventive... perhaps a new hull size is required to fill the gap, but have it keep racial flavour Examples:

Gallente mini-Carrier: Can field 5 Fighters or Fighter Bombers. Bonus to damage for these and bonus to fitting Warfare Links.
Amarr mini-Carrier. Can field 5 Fighters or Fighter Bombers. Bonus to armor resist and bonus to fitting Warfare Links.
Caldari mini-Dread. Uses a Torpedo sized assault launcher (like' HAM's). Bonus to Assault Torpedo damage/Explo-Radius and bonus to Warfare Links.*
Minmatar mini-Dread. Uses Artillery (think 2500mm, but not 6x 2500 from a Nagl). Bonus to Projectile RoF and bonus to Warfare Links**

*Or to save server lag, a 'shotgun' torp launcher. Uses multiple charges but coded as 1 projectile, Lower ROF, higher alpha. This would have massive fitting Req and only have 1 Launcher slot

**Again, only uses 1 turret slot and the Arty has massive fitting Req.

90% of the time you group guns into 1 or 2 groups for fights. This is a fleet based design idea for large numbers of pilots using up as little CPU time as possible.

With correct balances to tracking/Explosion Rad/Velo these ships wouldn't need to be pre-nerfed with poor tank or fitting and would become a class of ship unto themself


No turret slot. Even with **** poor trackign stats a small hull can counter some of the enemy transversal and they you get a stupid blap fit.

Every single oversize weapon on a small hull should be missiles to be sure no combination of any module can give you a blap fit. No level of "**** tank" can counter the power of volleying the opposition especially if the ship is designed to be able to boast enough alpha to matter in a cap/supercap fight.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-04-22 19:19:08 UTC
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:
Imagine this in Wormholes ..... a fleet with cap guns on anything below a cap will instantly turn a solo triage into a useless dustcloud ... however i like the idea of having a counter to capitalblobs in c5 & c6 .... Pirate


Now imagine vindi webbing + golem painting anything above cruiser with a few of these arty fit @optimal. It gets stupid real fast imo.
Thellero Orlenard
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-04-23 08:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Thellero Orlenard
How about they add subsystems to strategic cruisers to equip the launchers.? Increase their tankability but make the mass of the launcher enormous so that the warp time is massive.
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