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NERF Hisec?

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#381 - 2014-04-19 03:33:58 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Opinion

Opinion

Opinion

Opinion

None of which address the fact that an Ultra-Sec with mining, PvE, and exploration could be introduced without having an actual catastrophic impact other than some people arguing the ideology of a place existing where they're not allowed to shoot someone else's ships.

Where Player and Player interaction could still exist because asteroids being a finite resource, there would be competition to accurately time their respawn and go out and mine them, competition between miners organizing mining efforts to strip the rocks bare before others. Competition in noticing, locating, and hacking out exploration sites (with low rewards of course) before others, and ship limitations imposed upon low level missions for people wishing to do PvE missions. Not to mention the form of PvP many refer to as "station trading".


Yes. Opinion. Also common factor in PVE based space games.

X series - NPC's equivalent to players in capability.
STO - NPC's equivalent or stronger to players in capability.
Elite series- NPC's equivalent or stronger to players in capability.

Even 4x's - Star ruler, Sword of the Stars, Galactic Civilizations, MOO series, just to name a few - NPC's operate under rules similar or equivalent to the player.

EVE - NPC's are slightly more intelligent than a carrot. Their battleships are incapable of using drones, giving them no defense against small ships. They have hit points and firepower mostly equivalent to about 10% of a player ship.

If you look at the specs, a player frigate often has more firepower & EHP than a level 4 pirate battleship - and the pirate battleship is incapable of using those tools which a player battleship would use against a player. My Mach puts out more firepower than 12 drone battleships in a level 4 mission, for instance.

The entire play balance treats NPC's as next to meaningless. What inference would any reasonable person draw from that, in terms of the intent of EVE?




So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#382 - 2014-04-19 03:38:27 UTC
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#383 - 2014-04-19 03:40:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


Which no one is. No one is requiring anyone to go into "ultra-sec". If someone doesn't want to go into a portion of space where they cannot attack other ships, they do not have to.

Just as a person doesn't "have" to go into Null sec, a person wouldn't "have" to go into "ultra-sec" if it were implemented.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#384 - 2014-04-19 03:42:20 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


Which no one is. No one is requiring anyone to go into "ultra-sec". If someone doesn't want to go into a portion of space where they cannot attack other ships, they do not have to.

Just as a person doesn't "have" to go into Null sec, a person wouldn't "have" to go into "ultra-sec" if it were implemented.


As I write this, I am in a cruiser fleet PVPing.

Ultra-sec is a bad idea because if you can make even one ISK per hour, then you will break the economy. Therefore it is pointless.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#385 - 2014-04-19 03:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Divine Entervention wrote:
Which no one is. No one is requiring anyone to go into "ultra-sec". If someone doesn't want to go into a portion of space where they cannot attack other ships, they do not have to.

Just as a person doesn't "have" to go into Null sec, a person wouldn't "have" to go into "ultra-sec" if it were implemented.

The fact that you dont see the limitations on choice that this stupid idea imposes is either a sign of a lack of ability to think logically, or deliberate ignorance.

I dont think you lack intelligrnce so in my opinion, its no more than deliberate ignorance designed to continue a ridiculous thread going for your own fun and enjoyment.

The rest of us that keep responding to you are equally ignorant.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#386 - 2014-04-19 03:44:27 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


Which no one is. No one is requiring anyone to go into "ultra-sec". If someone doesn't want to go into a portion of space where they cannot attack other ships, they do not have to.

Just as a person doesn't "have" to go into Null sec, a person wouldn't "have" to go into "ultra-sec" if it were implemented.


As I write this, I am in a cruiser fleet PVPing.

Ultra-sec is a bad idea because if you can make even one ISK per hour, then you will break the economy. Therefore it is pointless.


Which is of course, your opinion.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#387 - 2014-04-19 03:45:16 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Which no one is. No one is requiring anyone to go into "ultra-sec". If someone doesn't want to go into a portion of space where they cannot attack other ships, they do not have to.

Just as a person doesn't "have" to go into Null sec, a person wouldn't "have" to go into "ultra-sec" if it were implemented.

The fact thst you dont see the limitations on choice that this stupid idea imposes is either a sign of a lack of ability to think logically, or deliberate ignorance.

I dont think you lack intelligrnce so in my opinion, its no more thsn deliberate ignorance designed just to continue a ridiculous thread going.

The rest of us thst keep responding to you are equally ignorant.


Prove it. Prove the point you're trying to make.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2014-04-19 03:48:27 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


This.

The point is that EVE is balanced around player vs player interaction. Rewards are based on our risk of interactions with other players being the dominant factor, not the environment.

Our superiority to the environment is such that the risk vs reward balance for pure environmental interaction is minimal, with a few exceptions for things such as incursions, which purposely include a lot of player vs. player completion in the completion of sites, etc.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#389 - 2014-04-19 03:48:41 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The real issue is there are too many new players being attracted to EVE that don't have the "right stuff" for a long learning curve sandbox that requires team play and quit again when they cannot be awesome solo within 6 months like other games :D

Hisec does not help because:
- new players should be teaming up with other new players and forming new corps, highsec encourages them to stay in NPC corps while whining about how none of the "awesome big player corps" will take them
- new players should be finding a niche and working towards it, highsec instead encourages an obsession with battleships for no other reason then they are the biggest ships allowed in highsec and whine about how it takes too long to get a battleship
- the politics behind EVE is based around SOV and bluesec entities with some minor influence by the bigger "noob" hisec entities like BNI and EVE Uni. New Order have some influence but they are more talk than actually effective. Highsec encourages new players to ignore the politics altogether and focus on personal achievements.

Baasically Highsec encourages new players to adopt an "I want to be cool and awesome pay attention to me while I solo about like a badass" attitude that gets old quick ... then they quit.

On the otherhand highsec is necessary for many of the reasons outlined above.

The solution? Stop seeding new players in highsec. Spawn them in lowsec or nullsec schools instead.


No one has the "right stuff" and very few people are willing to teach the new players the "right stuff."

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#390 - 2014-04-19 03:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


This.

The point is that EVE is balanced around player vs player interaction. Rewards are based on our risk of interactions with other players being the dominant factor, not the environment.

Our superiority to the environment is such that the risk vs reward balance for pure environmental interaction is minimal, with a few exceptions for things such as incursions, which purposely include a lot of player vs. player completion in the completion of sites, etc.


And no one(or at least I'm not) is making a suggestion to remove all pvp from "Ultra-Sec". Only the ability to shoot other person's ships.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#391 - 2014-04-19 03:54:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Which no one is. No one is requiring anyone to go into "ultra-sec". If someone doesn't want to go into a portion of space where they cannot attack other ships, they do not have to.

Just as a person doesn't "have" to go into Null sec, a person wouldn't "have" to go into "ultra-sec" if it were implemented.

The fact that you dont see the limitations on choice that this stupid idea imposes is either a sign of a lack of ability to think logically, or deliberate ignorance.

I dont think you lack intelligrnce so in my opinion, its no more than deliberate ignorance designed to continue a ridiculous thread going for your own fun and enjoyment.

The rest of us that keep responding to you are equally ignorant.


I'm currently at a place where I can post, but not play, else I'd be doing other things. Big smile It passes the time.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#392 - 2014-04-19 03:56:06 UTC
leavemymomalone idiot wrote:
how about CCP making an area of space where it is actually SAFE, where any aggression like locking up a ship or bumping results in ship and pod being destroyed..a super safe hisec ultra sec if you will.

Almost impossible to gank in these areas. i say almost, but i mean NEVER.

everyone is banging on about getting more players into the game, welll...this post is directed to all the risk adverse pilots who want to carebear without worry. knowing that gankers and griefers cannot operate as they do now in normal hisec..


i am certain that an area of ultra-sec would be stuffed with pilots every day. and the forums filled with the raised voices of all those pvp pilots who want more access to victims to fatten up killlboards and being denied. let the tears of frustration flow.


nerf hisec ? no i say make ultra sec.

what do you think?



"Only 'tears of frustration" flowing right now is from you and your cancerous ilk because you don't like people.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Lady Areola Fappington
#393 - 2014-04-19 04:00:02 UTC
CCP makes design decisions with a generous helping of "does this encourage player conflict in the game?" They go towards "Yes". Eve is a game that revolves around conflict. Removing conflict would be a silly move.

Sandbox does not mean "I can do whatever I want." Sandbox means "I can attempt to do anything I want. Others can attempt to stop me."

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#394 - 2014-04-19 04:03:14 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
CCP makes design decisions with a generous helping of "does this encourage player conflict in the game?" They go towards "Yes".


Which isn't the case every time.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#395 - 2014-04-19 04:05:21 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


This.

The point is that EVE is balanced around player vs player interaction. Rewards are based on our risk of interactions with other players being the dominant factor, not the environment.

Our superiority to the environment is such that the risk vs reward balance for pure environmental interaction is minimal, with a few exceptions for things such as incursions, which purposely include a lot of player vs. player completion in the completion of sites, etc.


And no one(or at least I'm not) is making a suggestion to remove all pvp from "Ultra-Sec". Only the ability to shoot other person's ships.


Plenty of people are making that assertion, that ultrasec means no player can harm you in any way.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#396 - 2014-04-19 04:09:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
La Nariz wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine wrote:
So then why does PvE exist in EvE if it's not intended for people to PvE?

no one is claiming people cant't PvE.

People can choose to do whatever they want, including both PvE and PvP.

What people cant do is choose how someone else should play. That doesnt need to change.


This.

The point is that EVE is balanced around player vs player interaction. Rewards are based on our risk of interactions with other players being the dominant factor, not the environment.

Our superiority to the environment is such that the risk vs reward balance for pure environmental interaction is minimal, with a few exceptions for things such as incursions, which purposely include a lot of player vs. player completion in the completion of sites, etc.


And no one(or at least I'm not) is making a suggestion to remove all pvp from "Ultra-Sec". Only the ability to shoot other person's ships.


Plenty of people are making that assertion, that ultrasec means no player can harm you in any way.


Not me though. Considering that everything within EvE is PvP, someone would "harm" someone in Ultra-sec by mining all the asteroids before they can. They can "harm" someone in Ultra-sec by noticing, finding, and hacking an exploration site in Ultra-Sec faster than another person. The only way that one could not "harm" someone in Ultra-Sec would be to try and shoot their ship. Other aspects of "PvP" would still exist.

Which if you wanted to play in a system where you can shoot others ships, you could go to High, Low, Null, and WH space.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#397 - 2014-04-19 04:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassandra Aurilien
Divine Entervention wrote:


And no one(or at least I'm not) is making a suggestion to remove all pvp from "Ultra-Sec". Only the ability to shoot other person's ships.


The risk vs reward for an area with no chance of other player interaction is simple. (As EVE is based on risk vs. reward.)

With a small modicum of research and skills above the most basic, it's quite easy to fit a cruiser which can complete almost any level 2 mission (which is what you suggested should be in this area) at 0 risk from NPCs.

Therefore, as the risk can be made to be 0, the reward should be 0.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#398 - 2014-04-19 04:29:31 UTC
Quote:
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

Thread closed.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department