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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

First post First post First post
Author
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#561 - 2014-04-15 21:46:05 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
In case people are interested, that's around 13400 new moons added to the pool of highsec anchorable moons (currently around 33000)


Hello, Steve, who I will vote for CSM.

I would not really make too many calculations over spare moons or similar, EvE has this excellent feature called (almost) "free market" that settles down these things. And ISK shall still be ridicolously easy to make to pay for added costs. Blink
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#562 - 2014-04-15 21:46:50 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If it's possible, I'd like to see the following added:

All stations with rookie industry agents are limited to 'civilian' blueprints.

That way, the cost for rookies shouldn't be too bad, when they're going through their tutorials, rather than the stations being constantly jam packed.

Then just make sure the free venture bpc is tagged civilian.


you can always simply make sure the rookie systems are uneffected by the congestion charges. or make sure the charge formula takes the length of the job into account.



Problem with the removal of the congestion charge in rookie systems is: Everyone manufactures in a rookie system.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#563 - 2014-04-15 21:47:31 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If it's possible, I'd like to see the following added:

All stations with rookie industry agents are limited to 'civilian' blueprints.

That way, the cost for rookies shouldn't be too bad, when they're going through their tutorials, rather than the stations being constantly jam packed.

Then just make sure the free venture bpc is tagged civilian.


you can always simply make sure the rookie systems are uneffected by the congestion charges. or make sure the charge formula takes the length of the job into account.

Well, making rookie systems unaffected would simply serve to make them the new industry hubs.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

El 1974
Green Visstick High
#564 - 2014-04-15 21:47:50 UTC
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#565 - 2014-04-15 21:47:54 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
In case people are interested, that's around 13400 new moons added to the pool of highsec anchorable moons (currently around 33000)


Hello, Steve, who I will vote for CSM.

I would not really make too many calculations over spare moons or similar, EvE has this excellent feature called (almost) "free market" that settles down these things. And ISK shall still be ridicolously easy to make to pay for added costs. Blink



Heh. Just thinking it'll take a wee while to fill up.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#566 - 2014-04-15 21:47:55 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Or...as the next 4 dev blogs will reveal, this is just the first step in eviscerating high sec industry and null sec industry will be given even MORE advantages that make it impossible to run either a casual high sec indy corp or a large scale dedicated industrial corp.

Why would they do that, though? And if that's the goal, why would they start with a significant buff to highsec industry?
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#567 - 2014-04-15 21:48:57 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.

If offline pos spam is a concern, this is an elegant solution.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#568 - 2014-04-15 21:50:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Or...as the next 4 dev blogs will reveal, this is just the first step in eviscerating high sec industry and null sec industry will be given even MORE advantages that make it impossible to run either a casual high sec indy corp or a large scale dedicated industrial corp.

Why would they do that, though? And if that's the goal, why would they start with a significant buff to highsec industry?

Well that's easy, because they need to do that first before they never.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#569 - 2014-04-15 21:50:20 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If it's possible, I'd like to see the following added:

All stations with rookie industry agents are limited to 'civilian' blueprints.

That way, the cost for rookies shouldn't be too bad, when they're going through their tutorials, rather than the stations being constantly jam packed.

Then just make sure the free venture bpc is tagged civilian.


Of all the things mentioned in this blog this is all you have to say? I thought you were running on the industry platform?

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#570 - 2014-04-15 21:50:39 UTC
Querns wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.

If offline pos spam is a concern, this is an elegant solution.

Why isn't the wardec solution sufficient?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#571 - 2014-04-15 21:50:46 UTC
Querns wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.

If offline pos spam is a concern, this is an elegant solution.



How about:

POS without charters are free to shoot?

And they continue to tick down, even if the tower is offline. Possibly at an elevated rate.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#572 - 2014-04-15 21:51:44 UTC
Querns wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.

If offline pos spam is a concern, this is an elegant solution.

Yeah, I kind of like that.

If you let the lights go out, it is considered abandoned unless or until you turn them back on.

Removing shields (which require power) would not go amiss either.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#573 - 2014-04-15 21:51:55 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If it's possible, I'd like to see the following added:

All stations with rookie industry agents are limited to 'civilian' blueprints.

That way, the cost for rookies shouldn't be too bad, when they're going through their tutorials, rather than the stations being constantly jam packed.

Then just make sure the free venture bpc is tagged civilian.


Of all the things mentioned in this blog this is all you have to say? I thought you were running on the industry platform?



You missed my first post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4474425#post4474425

I've just spent the last 5 hours stuck doing a deployment at work. I'm just settling down to read it now.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#574 - 2014-04-15 21:53:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Querns wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.

If offline pos spam is a concern, this is an elegant solution.

Why isn't the wardec solution sufficient?

It gives the pos haver warning and lets them online the tower.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#575 - 2014-04-15 21:53:05 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Or...as the next 4 dev blogs will reveal, this is just the first step in eviscerating high sec industry and null sec industry will be given even MORE advantages that make it impossible to run either a casual high sec indy corp or a large scale dedicated industrial corp.


I am not known to be a strenuous (sov) null sec supremacy "because it's Good" supporter.
But give CCP some slack please.

The potential nerf to Supercaps Online(tm) is sublime and hi sec was a TERRIBLE mechanic to begin with, seeing it slowly phased out imo is a good idea, as long as there are new mechanics to allow the individuals to still afford playing this game.


Think about this: in the vituperated WoW, you are statistically LESS safe against ganking than in EvE's hi sec.

EvE is marketed as cold, harsh universe, if CCP makes it really so, they are just delivering what they have written on the tin.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#576 - 2014-04-15 21:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Tippia wrote:
Querns wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
No need to remove offline POSses. Allow players to shoot them without a wardec and they will clear them. Perhaps make attackers suspect, but keep concord out. Give players a chance, you can always remove POSses later if that doesn't work.

If offline pos spam is a concern, this is an elegant solution.

Why isn't the wardec solution sufficient?

i think the wardec solution works great vs an active corp.. however vs abandoned POS's that are out of fuel I think a simpler, shorter, (and less expensive) option would not go amiss.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#577 - 2014-04-15 21:53:40 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If it's possible, I'd like to see the following added:

All stations with rookie industry agents are limited to 'civilian' blueprints.

That way, the cost for rookies shouldn't be too bad, when they're going through their tutorials, rather than the stations being constantly jam packed.

Then just make sure the free venture bpc is tagged civilian.


Of all the things mentioned in this blog this is all you have to say? I thought you were running on the industry platform?



You missed my first post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4474425#post4474425

I've just spent the last 5 hours stuck doing a deployment at work. I'm just settling down to read it now.


My apologies, I assumed you were back from work and replying already P

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#578 - 2014-04-15 21:54:21 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
In case people are interested, that's around 13400 new moons added to the pool of highsec anchorable moons (currently around 33000)


Hello, Steve, who I will vote for CSM.

I would not really make too many calculations over spare moons or similar, EvE has this excellent feature called (almost) "free market" that settles down these things. And ISK shall still be ridicolously easy to make to pay for added costs. Blink



Heh. Just thinking it'll take a wee while to fill up.


Now translate it like a good trader would do: any transition times equal to trends, and trends mean dynamism, creativiy and PROFIT!
Thead Enco
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#579 - 2014-04-15 21:56:00 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Quote:
Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures. Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.


This is the worst single idea I have ever seen from a dev. DO NOT DO THIS CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!

We already risk a large amount of isk in just having the labs/datacores/decryptors and all of the copies needed out at a pos. Forcing us to either risk a huge amount more than that, or move the bpos to other much more populated stations that are already overpopulated (that don't have corp offices available or available for anywhere near a reasonable price) and incur a high cost that will greatly reduce production profit or negate it all together, is a horrible change. You as devs do not understand the amount of bpos required to make copies for t2 invention. And you clearly don't understand the organization and the necessity of being able to efficiently access bpos and the time commitment that industry already takes. It is incredibly shortsighted and ignorant of you to assume that it is only a slight amount of isk that we will be risking. We use and need easy access to hundreds of bpos to make the copies we need to be able to do invention. Asking us to risk multiple billions in bpos is insane. And no, I know I don't have to keep all of the bpos I am not using at the pos. However, the addition of moving around the needed bpos from the station to the pos adds an additional step and organizational nightmare to an already complicated system. Because of the nature of industry NOTHING you do with the UI and other new features will change this.

This change will also create an additional hassle organizational nightmare for players who need to find or move bpos around. Industry is already complicated enough without having to deal with moving all of the bpos around. DO NOT take away our ability to organize bpos in one central station corp office so multiple characters can easily have access to them and can quickly and efficiently install jobs. DO NOT make us do more work and take more time to do industry jobs.

Another severely overlooked issue that this creates: This removes the ability of safely sharing bpos by locking them down in corp hanger in a station. BPOs can't be locked down at a pos. This change will limit how and where we can play severely. It forces people who want to play together to use certain systems and certain stations, to pay for spots at those stations and it practically makes setting up a pos a waste of time and effort, because it limits its usefulness. In the culture of eve (griefers/corp thieves/all) this change removes several much needed elements of safety that allow us to enjoy playing and interacting with a larger player base.

If you have decided to do this, as is suggested by other statements in this dev blog, because you haven't worked out how to deal how the slot change affects pos mods, then DO NOT make this change until you come up with a better solution. Because this is NOT the way to make this change happen.

POSes are expensive, take time, effort and a good amount of isk to maintain already. Forcing us to risk a considerable amount more and in doing so increase the amount of busy work that is required for doing industry is not a good change.

I personally have been playing Eve for 5 and a half years. Industry is one part of the game that I greatly enjoy doing. If this change does go through I will have to seriously consider if it is worth it to keep paying for my 4 accounts. Many of my friends who like this element of the game are already talking about leaving because of this. I sincerely hope that you will not go through with this change and that the other forthcoming industry changes are much more intelligently and thoughtfully crafted than this. If not, you will be losing a large group of your paying customers.


This. I'm not planning to quit but if this change goes through you can bet your ass you will be shutting down most of the REAL industry corporations with REAL members as well as mass producers as the risk and effort will no longer be worth it.



Here we go,, if people are already claiming to unsub before reading the rest of CCP's dev blogs on this without any in depth analysis then they were never a "Real" industrist to begin with. God forbid if everything is not handed to you on a silver plater.
Canenald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#580 - 2014-04-15 21:56:15 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Canenald wrote:
Sounds to me like manufacturing and research is about to be dumbed down.

Yeah, just like the creation of a GUI dumbed down computer use. Roll

Hell, now EVERONE will be able to do it... sheesh.


We talk a lot about good and bad complexity within the team. A fair portion of the industry changes are pretty clear examples of removing bad complexity, while still keeping the interesting problems for players to solve.

Some of the changes are also centered around cleaning up years of legacy code, freeing us up to better iterate on the feature and do more sexy looking UI Cool

Success in industry should be about knowing what to build, how, where, when, sourced from where and sold at the right place and at the right time.

Edit: and for the right price.

It should never be about to be able to stand or navigate a stupid UI.


I wasn't referring to the new UI, which I also like. I was referring to the changes to R.A.M. and similar components, the extra materials and the station slots. As with many features of EVE, variety, complexity and realism is what sets eve apart from generic MMOs. Take that away and manufacturing in EVE will become more like crafting in every other game.

It makes more sense for tools like R.A.M. to be gradually damaged than consumed by the process of manufacturing. If you wanted to do away with the randomness, just give them a limited number of uses rather than making them consumable materials like everything else.

Extra materials also add a nice non-generic flavour to the manufacturing process.

Removal of extra materials and semi-consumable components is justified by the fact that many less experienced players are calculating their manufacturing costs wrongly, but then you replace manufacturing slots with gradually increasing manufacturing fee. Don't you think many newbies will engage in unprofitable manufacture because they will not notice that they are being charged more than their eventual profit by manufacturing in a busy system?