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Interceptor fleet are not fun at all
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Bezdar22
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#161 - 2014-04-25 22:20:15 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
You don't see them anymore because they are pointless against blobs. Roll Too slow, too flimsy, easily nuked of the field. I'm sure, the Myrm pilot from the recent Aubenal fight can confirm that. Twisted


Yes I love BCs but I don't see what to do with now. Slow and witout enough range and without enough tank...
It is sad.


ppl fly BC mostly in high sec now .. just dont fly much in null sec.. just guess what will happen if some one goes in deklain or any other sov space with a BC .???

Taint Stain
Doomheim
#162 - 2014-04-27 07:59:27 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
it's a gang that's easily counted by a gang of the same make up of a larger size (as is the way of blob war) it's easily counted by any gang with recons and the whole lot dies to smart bombing i'm still not seeing the problem

oh and rlm cruiser gangs wipe the floor with them too can we stop this yet it's not like there is no counter people just don't like it because it lets people run around space quickly and makes fools of their cap ship blobs which are rendered useless


Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#163 - 2014-04-27 08:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Taint Stain wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
it's a gang that's easily counted by a gang of the same make up of a larger size (as is the way of blob war) it's easily counted by any gang with recons and the whole lot dies to smart bombing i'm still not seeing the problem

oh and rlm cruiser gangs wipe the floor with them too can we stop this yet it's not like there is no counter people just don't like it because it lets people run around space quickly and makes fools of their cap ship blobs which are rendered useless


Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.


Do you really expect people to willingly and knowingly run into a knife and die to you? If you fight them with guns or knifes they cannot win against, it's only natural to not engage ... then again, CFC recently started fighting a fight in Aubenal/Oulley they could impossibly win, so people on the far end of the intelligence spectrum exist. Roll

And if they don't fight you on your terms and instead run, you have won anyways. You defended your space and they didn't get kills. All good from my point of view.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#164 - 2014-04-27 09:31:22 UTC
Taint Stain wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
it's a gang that's easily counted by a gang of the same make up of a larger size (as is the way of blob war) it's easily counted by any gang with recons and the whole lot dies to smart bombing i'm still not seeing the problem

oh and rlm cruiser gangs wipe the floor with them too can we stop this yet it's not like there is no counter people just don't like it because it lets people run around space quickly and makes fools of their cap ship blobs which are rendered useless


Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.



and that is true with all gangs of throughout all of eve what's your point?
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2014-04-27 10:57:23 UTC
Diivil wrote:

Ratters died just as much before these changes were introduced as they do now. People like wheniaminspace and that lazerspewpew guy from BL were extremely successful at killing ratters solo. I'm sorry you didn't manage to do the same as them then.


So, Interceptors are over-powered and unfair because they kill your ships. Yet here you say that just as many ships died before interceptors were buffed. So, which is it? Either interceptors are the problem, or ratters died just as often before. Choose one.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2014-04-27 11:06:58 UTC
Dynamiittiukko wrote:

Instead, the results of the recent couple of weeks should be a wake-up call. Those sleepy ratters should be more alert (because currently they get what they deserve - a pod express back home), intel should be more active and those so-called defense fleets should actually help out their fellow ratters which, so far, they have not done (see the PPS. part above again).

Isn't it funny how when the gankers go after AFK miners in hi-sec the nullbears tell the miners to HTFU, and to stop being AFK in untanked (i.e. efficiently fitted for mining output) ships, and yet when the same thing happens to them it's way unfair? I suggest that if it's reasonable for hi-sec miners to be told to HTFU and either eat the losses or tank their ships properly, it is also reasonable for nullbear to HTFU and eat their losses, and tank their ships right.

Quote:

As Ugly Eric wrote, I'm pretty sure we haven't caught a single pilot who was actually awake. We've seen so many Ishtar and Navy Vexor tail lights with only wrecks and drones left behind. A very crude guess is that we catch something like 1 out of every 20 or so ratters. Those drone boats should never be within point range of the rats anyway.

As a wormholer, I have no time for this 'not fair that I can't be half-asleep' BS. Plan your outings to match the threat levels - if roaming interceptor gangs are common in your region, stay awake, have scouts out, or pay attention to your intel channels and local, and if things feel risky, dock up. We have scouts out at all neighbouring WHs, and have to be ready to run at a moment's notice, and that's when in a fleet of 8-12 with 3 logis, because that's how it goes when ratting in WH space. Frankly, if null-sec is so safe that people are complaining because solo ratters get hit from time to time when they're not paying attention, it shouldn't be giving the income that it does.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2014-04-27 11:51:40 UTC
Burneddi wrote:
Diivil wrote:
A single 2.0s align time interceptor has no problems of killing stuff like Ishtar/VNI ratters which are popular enough that probably 30-40 die every day in Deklein.

Peaceful ratting realm attacked by interceptor.

Truly it's a travesty that people can't AFK rat in drone cruisers anymore and have to instead actually pay attention to the game. What has Eve become?

I have no idea, seeing I can't see how a single intie can out-DPS a properly fit Ishtar's tank. I suppose if it was already at max incoming from rats it could happen, but then you kill a couple of rats, and watch your armour or shields just rep right back up while the intie flails futilely at your tank and watches his melt away (you did think to bring some Warriors, right?). IF you're armour tanked you can even mount EWAR. Fancy that.
Quote:

There's so many ways not to die to roaming ceptor gangs, but instead of using them you're sitting here whining about how you can't beat them by camping gates and ratting in Afktars.
It's amazing, isn't it?
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#168 - 2014-04-27 13:49:07 UTC
even with 5000+ scan resolution I don't catch these inties most of the time.

It happens about 1/10 times I catch one inty with instalock. But it is really randomly.

Not realy interestening. I think that when everybody will just dock the game will be really more interetening....

Now time to play Elder Scroll online ;-)

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#169 - 2014-04-27 13:55:27 UTC
I don't dock when I see ceptors, I and we turn them into space dust - unless it's 50+ and we aren't in the mood to sit in vacuum. Then I either dock or sit in space cloaked and watch; and I have fun watching all the lovely gifs in Local and talk about the Ceptor fleet FC's mom and sister; 2 things that somehow always come up.

I also don't need to catch them. They want something from us, so either they come for us or they don't, I am fine with either. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Taint Stain
Doomheim
#170 - 2014-04-27 18:16:04 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
Taint Stain wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
it's a gang that's easily counted by a gang of the same make up of a larger size (as is the way of blob war) it's easily counted by any gang with recons and the whole lot dies to smart bombing i'm still not seeing the problem

oh and rlm cruiser gangs wipe the floor with them too can we stop this yet it's not like there is no counter people just don't like it because it lets people run around space quickly and makes fools of their cap ship blobs which are rendered useless


Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.



and that is true with all gangs of throughout all of eve what's your point?


Firstly the only intys i have an issue with are the crow and malediction. They are completely out of line with all the other interceptors due to light missiles, they engage / dps outside of any range that a non-obvious bait ship can potentially tackle them, as they orbit outside of any e-war capable of holding them outside of a recon. to do similiar dps pretty much all other intys have to at least be inside neut range of a bs, but most others will go 10-12k ish. Interceptors were buffed to be used as interceptors to support in fleets, they should not be viable as without the inclusion of non-interceptors.

Maledictions and Crows Are what drakes were in 2009-2011, its a matter of time until someone abuses them enough to get the usage stats high enough for CCP to properly balance them.

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#171 - 2014-04-27 18:29:20 UTC
Taint Stain wrote:

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.


Where do you get the 60-70 km range from? oO

With a Malediction,I have 36 km with Meta 3 launchers and faction light missiles with a volley/DPS of 385/50. With T2 Prec/Fury you have below 20 km and have to make major trade-offs in terms of fitting, which makes them not feasible at all. So where do you get your 60 km from? I see the 60 km on the Crow, but where is the Malediction there? How is the Malediction OP in a way the Crow might be considered OP?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Taint Stain
Doomheim
#172 - 2014-04-27 21:44:26 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Taint Stain wrote:

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.


Where do you get the 60-70 km range from? oO

With a Malediction,I have 36 km with Meta 3 launchers and faction light missiles with a volley/DPS of 385/50. With T2 Prec/Fury you have below 20 km and have to make major trade-offs in terms of fitting, which makes them not feasible at all. So where do you get your 60 km from? I see the 60 km on the Crow, but where is the Malediction there? How is the Malediction OP in a way the Crow might be considered OP?


the malediction is used in smaller groups of ~30 for casual roaming almost exclusively. The 36km missile range is still too long for an interceptor, all light missiles should be removed from all interceptors (the crow and malediction) Compare the damage / range to any turreted inty. No Interceptor should be powerful enough to be used a one stop solution to a fleet doctrine, and if they are the damages should be exceptionally low unless they're at extreme short range, you know some form of risk vs reward vs this no risk do whatever you want and get away with it nonsense that is currently happening.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#173 - 2014-04-28 06:25:23 UTC
I don't see no "no risk" at all. Quite in contrast, the long range of the Crow makes it very vulnerable to long range medium weapons in combination with target painters and webs. Other than that fast moving ships are an easy counter to ceptors: Kill - This Crow died a horribly slow death and could not manage to kill my Crusader at all; it didn't even manage to get my armor down to 50% (You can obviously ignore the Talos).

So, if you are in a fast ship, Light Missiles bounce off of you like pebble on a cruise liner, if you are in a slow ship, they cause you damage. If you are in a counter fleet designed for frigates, Ceptors are at great risk; if you are in a counter fleet not designed for frigates, you will have a bad day. If you don't use the right tools, you cannot expect to achieve the right results.

As with your linked fight: First off: It's CO2, that disqualifies them from winning to begin with. Secondly, it shows that the CFC FC did not deem a Ceptor fleet a threatening target and did not call in reinforcements, as s/he would have most certainly done if the BL guys were in Cruisers or bigger ships. This was not the first fight, BL and other entities used Crows this way and everyone knows what they are capable of. If your FC doesn't know or doesn't want to go the usual CFC way (although I have to commend him/her for that), it's her own fault for engaging with unsuitable ships in the first place.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2014-04-28 07:08:08 UTC
Interceptors changed. It's a common theme amongst players of online games that once they have understood in depth the mechanics of the game they become very resistant to any changes to those mechanics. I think the complaints about the new-style inties come from this attitude. If it's considered too much effort to devise ways to counter these changes then just avoid them; come to hisec. If the changes are genuinely game-creaking then have a word with CCP. However, leave the nerf bat in the cupboard.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#175 - 2014-04-28 08:57:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
Malediction and Crow are really powerful today.
Long range warp disruptor, long range light missiles, quite good dps.

2 Maledictions can easily kill lot of farmer ships, 5 to 10 will be able to take down nearly any farmer.
Most of the time they will deny any other fight.

Even with high scan resolution it is rare you can catch one of them just because of latency. (And mine is really huge)

The only efficient counter measure I found is otther inties.

So I think that time will come where there will be only inties and docked ships in Eve...

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#176 - 2014-04-28 09:16:45 UTC
Points & scrams with fall off. So you can point an inti at 30k, as long as you have multiple points or there are several of you each using you 0.34 strength point on it. While it uses it's 1.0 point on one of you.

That would shake things up. (Hmmm, Do Webs have similar fall off mechanics, or rather lack of fall off)
DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2014-04-28 09:24:30 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Malediction and Crow are really powerful today.

The only efficient counter measure I found is otther inties.

So I think that time will come where there will be only inties and docked ships in Eve...




Go roam around Providence in your "uncatchable" intie and see how many jumps you can do... in minutes there will be a gate camp waiting for you with someone with a loaded scan resolution and being remote sensor boosted. You either dont risk and burn back to the gate or trust your bubble immunity and... you're dead...

Yes they are fast and buble immune but they are tacklers by definition, that means they have to commit and became vulnerable when they are doing what they are supposed to do: Tackle.

A neut will ruin a inty day, a RLML will ruin the inty day, a sniper will ruin ...
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#178 - 2014-04-28 09:31:07 UTC
Taint Stain wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
Taint Stain wrote:
Gawain Edmond wrote:
it's a gang that's easily counted by a gang of the same make up of a larger size (as is the way of blob war) it's easily counted by any gang with recons and the whole lot dies to smart bombing i'm still not seeing the problem

oh and rlm cruiser gangs wipe the floor with them too can we stop this yet it's not like there is no counter people just don't like it because it lets people run around space quickly and makes fools of their cap ship blobs which are rendered useless


Anything that wipes the floor with them they will not engage unless they're morons, they then travel faster than anything that can engage them can travel to somewhere else to be annoying. Its not balanced and defending the point that they can be countered if they're used incorrectly is silly.



and that is true with all gangs of throughout all of eve what's your point?


Firstly the only intys i have an issue with are the crow and malediction. They are completely out of line with all the other interceptors due to light missiles, they engage / dps outside of any range that a non-obvious bait ship can potentially tackle them, as they orbit outside of any e-war capable of holding them outside of a recon. to do similiar dps pretty much all other intys have to at least be inside neut range of a bs, but most others will go 10-12k ish. Interceptors were buffed to be used as interceptors to support in fleets, they should not be viable as without the inclusion of non-interceptors.

Maledictions and Crows Are what drakes were in 2009-2011, its a matter of time until someone abuses them enough to get the usage stats high enough for CCP to properly balance them.

example of what crows are capable of for blob warfare http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21586198 lets average down the volley damage to a crow to 600, with 100 crows you have a volley damage of 60k, 200 crows is 120k, they start getting to the point where they can warp on grid and start volleying off all the support ships while kiting or warping off. With an engagement range of 60-70km they will pretty much always be able to find a safe warp in to shoot from.


the funny thing is a gang of any frigates in the game would have kill all those battleships as they had nothing to kill frigates AND being outnumbered 10 to 1, The problem there isn't the intercepters it's the fact the battleship pilots were incompetant and the fc failed to form a proper fleet. I also note that the domi's didn't use light drones, you know the ones that are designed to catch and kill small fast stuff instead they used sentries which are just the opposit. I see a couple of armageddons on that too which didn't die. Do you think that's because the intercepters stayed away from them because if they got within it's neut range, which is long enough to reach to the point range of a cepter and to neut a cepter flat with a single neut in a single cycle, they'd die in a fire?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#179 - 2014-04-28 09:50:13 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Malediction and Crow are really powerful today.
Long range warp disruptor, long range light missiles, quite good dps.

2 Maledictions can easily kill lot of farmer ships, 5 to 10 will be able to take down nearly any farmer.
Most of the time they will deny any other fight.

Even with high scan resolution it is rare you can catch one of them just because of latency. (And mine is really huge)

The only efficient counter measure I found is otther inties.

So I think that time will come where there will be only inties and docked ships in Eve...


My Ratting Ishtar can tank the 150 DPS of 2 Crows and turn them to rubble while flying at max MWD speed, causing them to fly after me and not circle jerk me. I don't know what you fly, but even in my ratting ships I actively engage Ceptors. Naturally, I don't fly an AFKtar. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#180 - 2014-04-28 09:51:53 UTC
Light drones don't actually work to catch fast ships because the drone MWD mechanics are stuffed. Sentry drones from longer range (I.E. Fleet scatters so you always have half your fleet at good sniping range from the other half) actually do just as well. Which isn't to say they will do well, but the light drones waste 90% of their time MWD'ing into range, then drop MWD and fall out of range, rinse & repeat. And only get a few shots off in that time.