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Interceptor fleet are not fun at all
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Diivil
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2014-04-16 00:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Diivil
Dynamiittiukko wrote:


A lot of what you wrote above sounds nice and all, and I may even generally agree with a lot of it but this last bit is such an easy thing to say by someone in the biggest independent entity in game. "Just fight us. C'mon, we only outnumber you by 247:1 against, that's like almost fair".

One of the reasons (AFAIK) for the whole inty gang concept was to make your fleet size as irrelevant as possible. For once, CFC is not able to win through sheer number of pilots present. That, IMO, is much more balanced than what you suggest above.

You should not be any more safe than any other pilot in the Eve universe and, currently, you are not.


Fleet size and numbers are irrelevant. People would fight a 10 man interceptor gangs alone in cruisers if they could. The problem is that they can't because they can't catch them.


Dynamiittiukko wrote:

PPS. I'll have to agree with the "fight in the anomalies" stuff above. I've been on at least 3 inty roams where CFC had an instalock camp at a gate, we avoided it and killed an Ishtar or two in the anomalies in the same system while your instalock camp just instalock camped at the gate. Maybe if they'd actually warped to the anomalies the Ishtars would have lived. I don't know, maybe not, but it's a possibility your Ishtars never had because it was more important to instalock camp the gate. You know, defending your space.


Hydro Gen wrote:
well the repsonse fleet could just warp in to anomalies where the ratters are tackled.


Are you both suggesting that the only way to fight roaming interceptors should be to put a defensive fleet in every single system? Sounds quite excessive just to deal with roamers now doesn't it?
Born2beSlut
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2014-04-16 00:45:19 UTC
Diivil wrote:


First of all I have made my opinions on 2.0s interceptors very clear from day one. While that was in more regarding using them as cyno platforms that still stands. Uncatchable ships are not fun to me and I think they take a lot away from this game.


Eve in nullsec is based on communities. In communities we help each other. Corporations in your alliance may hate each other and do stuff behind each others' back but I want to help the fellow goon. Unfortunately, as it has often been advertised over the years, the fellow goon happens to be rather slow and not very good at playing this game. So I want to assist him to gather ISK for his battleship so that he can continue making money by losing that battleship and getting 200% reimbursement every time. And as it happens the best way of dealing with roaming gangs is to kill them. The worst way of dealing with roaming gangs is to ignore them.

You realise it just as well as anyone else that there are pointing rats in pretty much every anomaly nowadays. Do you really suggest that the only workable tactic against roaming fleets should be getting safe whenever one gets within 3 jumps from you. What about if they log out somewhere and come back unscouted after some time?

You are suggesting that the only working tactic against roamers should be ignoring them. I shouldn't have to tell you just how stupid that whole notion is.

Ratters died just as much before these changes were introduced as they do now. People like wheniaminspace and that lazerspewpew guy from BL were extremely successful at killing ratters solo. I'm sorry you didn't manage to do the same as them then.



hate to break to you buddy but for every ratter they catch they are at least 5 ratters that get away and all they find are wrecks in the anomalies .
The ceptors have so little dps that earlier today a Myrmi with two guardian spider tanking were making fun of us cause we couldnot break their tank with 10 ceptors . Also if you have ship with long web/points Loki/huggin/Proteus/Lachesis and decent tank etc they will get dumpstered or run away so you can continue to do AFK ratting .
Many times the ceptors are vollyed if the pilot is not careful , there is no room for mistakes with so little tank .
Bottom line deal with it untill the mittani makes a campaign to nerf them .
Hydro Gen
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2014-04-16 00:46:15 UTC
keep going with the spin. Everyone knows that if you are not in goons, you and your corp are illoyal
to both alliance and even your own corp.

Also you cant praise BL anymore, you know how they went from being OMGWTFAWSOME to being nothing, about the excact time they broke with goons.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#64 - 2014-04-16 00:57:15 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Where is the fun?
You dieing in a warpcored ****-fit ishtar to an inty fleet :
https://zkillboard.com/detail/37773002/

My guess.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Diivil
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2014-04-16 01:00:09 UTC
Born2beSlut wrote:


hate to break to you buddy but for every ratter they catch they are at least 5 ratters that get away and all they find are wrecks in the anomalies .
The ceptors have so little dps that earlier today a Myrmi with two guardian spider tanking were making fun of us cause we couldnot break their tank with 10 ceptors . Also if you have ship with long web/points Loki/huggin/Proteus/Lachesis and decent tank etc they will get dumpstered or run away so you can continue to do AFK ratting .
Many times the ceptors are vollyed if the pilot is not careful , there is no room for mistakes with so little tank .
Bottom line deal with it untill the mittani makes a campaign to nerf them .


It is your own fault that you engage a Myrmidon that has 2 guardians assisting. That's just basic decision making. Can our fleet break Guardian reps on a ship that has tech 2 resist? No? Well don't engage it then. You willingly went in to a situation you must have known you can't win and give this as an example how interceptors are balanced. Convincing argument.

I mean you absolutely have to be an idiot to engage anything except ratters in a fleet doctrine that is designed to kill ratters and nothing else. Or do you really claim that if I sit in an anomaly with my Loki and 2 Guardians you would come running and started shooting at me?

Oh and I only need to dedicate another account to babysit my ratting alt in nullsec nowadays?
Dynamiittiukko
Fistful of Finns
#66 - 2014-04-16 01:02:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dynamiittiukko
Diivil wrote:
Fleet size and numbers are irrelevant. People would fight a 10 man interceptor gangs alone in cruisers if they could. The problem is that they can't because they can't catch them.


Again, a comment that can pretty much only originate from a member of CFC. I don't mean to attack the coalition with these comments per se but numbers are only irrelevant to those who know they can overpower practically any enemy anytime (comparison: "money is irrelevant" is basically only true to those who have more than they can spend).

We fly outnumbered 8/10 times. To us the numbers usually matter. The interceptor roams are just a way of mitigating the effect as much as we can and this forum thread alone proves it's working. However, that's no reason to do any kind of nerfing. Even if for no other reason than that it would be the cheap, lazy way out.

Instead, the results of the recent couple of weeks should be a wake-up call. Those sleepy ratters should be more alert (because currently they get what they deserve - a pod express back home), intel should be more active and those so-called defense fleets should actually help out their fellow ratters which, so far, they have not done (see the PPS. part above again).

As Ugly Eric wrote, I'm pretty sure we haven't caught a single pilot who was actually awake. We've seen so many Ishtar and Navy Vexor tail lights with only wrecks and drones left behind. A very crude guess is that we catch something like 1 out of every 20 or so ratters. Those drone boats should never be within point range of the rats anyway.

Diivil wrote:
Are you both suggesting that the only way to fight roaming interceptors should be to put a defensive fleet in every single system? Sounds quite excessive just to deal with roamers now doesn't it?


Nah. I do have some ideas but damned if I'll tell my enemy how to defeat me. Figure it out yourself. In the meantime, we will keep harvesting the sleepy ratters like there's no tomorrow. Because they deserve nothing less.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2014-04-16 01:08:34 UTC
A big issue with removing interdiction nullifiers is it makes it impossible to safely move stuff into nullsec without the use of a second account. While making it harder/less safe to transport into nullsec isn't necessarily bad, the fact that it would remain just as trivial to do so with a second account (the second account is either a scout or cyno alt for your carrier) means it's a stupid idea. It just reinforces pay to win to an extreme degree. It's already way too easy to completely avoid various forms of PvP in Eve by just buying a second account. Worried about suicide ganking in high sec? Use a daredevil on a second account to web your freighter into warp. Can't mission because you have a bunch of outstanding wardecs? Train up a mission alt on a second account.
Icewolf7
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2014-04-16 01:15:04 UTC
The problem is, they cant be caught in any normal typical fit, hell even naked they an almost get through, We found a counter in wh's which I wont share here but its to time consuming to setup.

So if a Ceptor jumps through a wh there is no stopping him unless he gets an extra second of lag.

A simple script for Hics that create a bubble that only effects ceptors when they attempt to start warp and NO other ships would be more than fair for all parties involved.
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
#69 - 2014-04-16 02:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ugly Eric
Icewolf7 wrote:
The problem is, they cant be caught in any normal typical fit, hell even naked they an almost get through, We found a counter in wh's which I wont share here but its to time consuming to setup.

So if a Ceptor jumps through a wh there is no stopping him unless he gets an extra second of lag.

A simple script for Hics that create a bubble that only effects ceptors when they attempt to start warp and NO other ships would be more than fair for all parties involved.


Naah. I do not agree. That would just mean, ever gatecamp would need not one, but two different bubblemachines. This again is no problem for any big entity, but will totally kill all the roming pvp alltogether. The effect of that is just as to remove the nullification alltogether. Or even just one hic with two bubblemachines, as they already now often are fitted.

I suggest you use your brains a bit before posting.

edit. Also few more points:

- There is no way whatsoever you can fit a interceptor to warp in less than 2s with a cyno fitted and the LO needed to light the cyno. Just no way.

- All of you yay sayers seems to think, that all the ceppies need to do is to warp from gate to gate and kill ratters in every system. Wrong. Every single ishtar with ec-300's or warriors in it can already kill a careless ceppiepilot. When the fit is so specialized to warp as fast as possible, they are not exactly very tanky ships. Any cruisersize pvp fitted ship will 2 volley them ceppies, if the pilots makes the slightest error. I know, I have lost a ton of them. Ever single time I lost a ceppie there was 2 reasons to it
1) my target was prepared to be tackled and to fight us of
2) I made piloting error and thus ended up not being able to GTFO in time

So once again. Buy a ceppie, and go roaming with it, and you can see, its not very easy to stay alive with them. Our lads have now hundreds of hours of practice to stay alive. Every time we get new dudes to fleet they die. It takes practice to stay alive.
Diivil
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2014-04-16 02:34:58 UTC
Ugly Eric wrote:


- There is no way whatsoever you can fit a interceptor to warp in less than 2s with a cyno fitted and the LO needed to light the cyno. Just no way.


I'm just quoting this part riiiight here.

Ugly Eric wrote:

- All of you yay sayers seems to think, that all the ceppies need to do is to warp from gate to gate and kill ratters in every system. Wrong. Every single ishtar with ec-300's or warriors in it can already kill a careless ceppiepilot. When the fit is so specialized to warp as fast as possible, they are not exactly very tanky ships. Any cruisersize pvp fitted ship will 2 volley them ceppies, if the pilots makes the slightest error. I know, I have lost a ton of them. Ever single time I lost a ceppie there was 2 reasons to it
1) my target was prepared to be tackled and to fight us of
2) I made piloting error and thus ended up not being able to GTFO in time

So once again. Buy a ceppie, and go roaming with it, and you can see, its not very easy to stay alive with them. Our lads have now hundreds of hours of practice to stay alive. Every time we get new dudes to fleet they die. It takes practice to stay alive.


You are fully aware just how little warriors hurt interceptors. Meaning there is no way in hell warriors drive away a Malediction before his buddies arrive to secure the tackle. EC-300s might work but it's entirely random especially considering how drastic the sensor strength buffs have been lately. Miss the first jam and you are dead in any case.

I'm sure you tackle many cruiser sized non-drone boats. Yeah, that happens. There is a lonely Cynabal in a belt, will you engage? Of course not. You are presumably not an idiot. The fact that the Cynabal would kill you doesn't matter when you can decide if you want to engage or not.

Quite honestly there are only two ways to lose these interceptors, getting baited or bad FCing (mostly target selection). If it takes hundreds of hours to train your guys to stay alive and they still die to things that aren't baits then quite clearly the issue is with the FCing.
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
#71 - 2014-04-16 03:14:26 UTC
Diivil wrote:


You are fully aware just how little warriors hurt interceptors. Meaning there is no way in hell warriors drive away a Malediction before his buddies arrive to secure the tackle. EC-300s might work but it's entirely random especially considering how drastic the sensor strength buffs have been lately. Miss the first jam and you are dead in any case.

I'm sure you tackle many cruiser sized non-drone boats. Yeah, that happens. There is a lonely Cynabal in a belt, will you engage? Of course not. You are presumably not an idiot. The fact that the Cynabal would kill you doesn't matter when you can decide if you want to engage or not.

Quite honestly there are only two ways to lose these interceptors, getting baited or bad FCing (mostly target selection). If it takes hundreds of hours to train your guys to stay alive and they still die to things that aren't baits then quite clearly the issue is with the FCing.



and now you are assuming we are killing nothing but ratters. Actually we would engage the cynbal, unless a clear tarp. It is killable, however not an easy task.

Warrior II's actually does hurt the malediction. The pilot needs to have proper implants and eat a quafe for them not to do very much dmg. set of 3% hardwires and quafe close to triples the value of the ceppie. And as I said, it needs piloting skills to stay alive. If you fly like a average eveplayer and press orbit and f1 and wait, you sill get annihilated.

I am by no mean trying to say that we are superior pilots, we just have trained this one thing quite a bit. Like all actions in eve, you can get some level of success with casual playing and just pressing orbit + f1. However if you practice it, and focus on how things work and how you do them, you get more success. In the end the numbers always wins. I'm sure you know it very well. Not a single ceppieroam have gone by without us seeing a responsefleet outnumbering us by many times. Then we just haveto GTFO. JUST like you guys push the IWIN button in fleetwarfare by dropping 100 carriers on everything nowdays. We just burn out. Deal with it.
Dynamiittiukko
Fistful of Finns
#72 - 2014-04-16 03:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dynamiittiukko
Diivil wrote:
Quite honestly there are only two ways to lose these interceptors, getting baited or bad FCing (mostly target selection). If it takes hundreds of hours to train your guys to stay alive and they still die to things that aren't baits then quite clearly the issue is with the FCing.


It would seem to me that you are now mixing up two very distinctly different things:

1. The core group of people who have by now flown hundreds of hours of inty roams
2. The new people joining those roams who have maybe a few hours under their belt

The former group is the one that tends to stay alive. The latter group is the one where people tend to die more often.

The issue is not FCing because people operate mostly independently (well, unless you count each player as an FC for their own actions). The ones who don't have the experience may not always know what the right thing to do is and they may make a mistake and die. That's how they learn. That's how anyone learns.

.d

PS. Regarding that Myrmidon that was mentioned a few posts earlier: there were no Guardians on grid at first. They arrived later on, to help out their mates (that was one of maybe 5 times when anyone has defended anyone on our roams). We couldn't kill the Myrm (or the Guardians) because we couldn't break their reps. Well, that, and the 4 Armageddons and 2 Curses that also arrived on grid a little later that forced us to GTFO.
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#73 - 2014-04-16 05:23:07 UTC
The goon tears in this thread are exquisite...

I have seen almost every game mechanic I have used beeing nerfed at some point, 8 heat sink Geddon, 8 Ogre Thorax, precision cruise Raven, nano-Phoon, Blastethron, Masterplan BS TM, Capital nerfs, sentry drone assist Ishtar nerf, and now reliably ceptor nerf.

You know what? it matters not one little bit. No matter what is nerfed the same people woll be griefing goons with the next Fotm. Let's face it the problem is noobness and a certain non-combativeness in the way manypeopleapproach the game. No matter what mechanic is nerfed you ll always end up shafted. What can you do? Ugh
Amarant'h
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#74 - 2014-04-16 06:09:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarant'h
In my mind I find dosens of ways to be ratting safely if thats the case.
1. Be awake
2. Read intel
(Only by doing this youll be perfectly safe)

If you want to fight inties, dont camp at the gate. Why to do so, If you know its almost impossible? This is not a WoW...
Be creative, adaptive. If you want to fight inty blobs, bring curse and/or huginn with logistics and thats it.

Even by using dampers you can simply make inties useless and pop em one by one. Use your brains instead trying to change the game by making it dull. Inties having extremely limited range to fight, is making them so easy to counter.

I think whole discussion is because of ratting, since in real fights, they're very vulnerable.

I could keep on talking about ways to kill inties for rest of the day, but not gonna do that.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#75 - 2014-04-16 06:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Diivil wrote:
Hydro Gen wrote:
So basicly you just want to be able to gatecamp ?

What about bringing the fight in to the anoms like today?

yeah i know you lost a couple of carriers and some navy ships, but you also killed quite a few ceptors.


I want to be able to defend my space against a threat. Is that too much to ask? I know your alliance can't hold space or moons so maybe you don't know much about that.

I have no problems seeing an actual fight. I don't know which one you are talking about but if carriers died then your must have escalated which is exactly how it should go. However one fight out of a few hundred Ishtar/VNI kills is not a very good ratio wouldn't you agree?


I posted 9 possible counters to 1 fleet type. Do you expect more counter choice against just ONE single fleet type?

Funnily enough, on Page 2 a CFC renter complained that Inty gangs don't fight and just run away when they undock 50 people and they can't get them to fight their fleet (which is hilarious in itself), and here we have a CFC member complaining that Inty gangs fight and they can't handle them... Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
petition altternate
Med-Coy
#76 - 2014-04-16 06:48:05 UTC
Is this the Burn jita thread ??
Amarant'h
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#77 - 2014-04-16 06:53:07 UTC
petition altternate wrote:
Is this the Burn jita thread ??


This is SPART.... No.. This is goons trying to change game mechanics instead of using their brains. Well, in this case as normal, trying to change the game mechanics.
Jurgen Strottenpotten
Love Squad
#78 - 2014-04-16 06:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jurgen Strottenpotten
petition altternate wrote:
Is this the Burn jita thread ??


It surely looks like one, talking about un-counterable ways to die. It might as well be the wrecking ball thread.

How about we start copy-pasting Goon replies from the nerf suicide ganking thread, where high sec dwellers complain that goons' suicide ganks in high-sec can't be countered. You know, those threads where Goons tell the victims to HTFU, "Eve is not supposed to be safe", and "Your tears are delicious".
Jurgen Strottenpotten
Love Squad
#79 - 2014-04-16 07:06:44 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Where is the fun?


Inty gangs don't destroy the game, they destroy YOUR game (paraphrasing The Mittani and Darius JOHNSON).
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-04-16 07:07:05 UTC
- Find max 20man ceptor roam on Intel Channel
- No_ECM.jpg
- Fit pure tanky frig killer [cheap] i.e. Caracal, Stabber, Rupture, Thorax
- Welp into inty fleet. Kill two , loose one
- Isk and killwar won.
- Howtokillinties.jpg


http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif