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Interceptor fleet are not fun at all
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Alundil
Rolled Out
#21 - 2014-04-15 15:00:04 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
this would be game breaking - so no
the damn things are so fragile...... I imagine an assault frig fleet might have some fun, as would a smart-bombing BS group

Assault frigs are bad news for ceptor fleets...as they should be. Nice counter to them.

OP is mistaken though.

Ceptor fleets are fun.
Contrary to his stated claim, no Sov is in danger of being lost to roving gangs of interceptors.
It is possible to kill them.
It is possible to bait them (think very tanky xlasb rlml stuff - and enjoy George R. R. Martin's newest story "A game of wrecks").

OP (and his friends) simply needs to make a concerted effort to stop them and not rely on placing 20+ bubbles on gates for "security". Fun fact - there's a large number of CFC and PL renter systems with well over 20 large bubbles on multiple gates. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me (but perfect for interceptor fleets).

I'm right behind you
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#22 - 2014-04-15 15:33:31 UTC

3 Points:

1.) Interceptor fleets are fun to fly in. It makes traveling 80 systems while roaming reasonable, and allows even the farthest areas of space to be visited.

2.) Interceptors can be countered. You just need the right ships to do it. We all understand they run away when you do this, but everyone runs away when you bring a counter to their fleet. Tis the way of things.

3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic, and should not have been implemented on ANY ships. I would very much like this mechanic nerfed some.
♦ Note: A several years ago CCP "accidentallied" the interdiction nullification subsystem so nullified ships could warp out of a bubble, but if there was a drag/catch bubble properly setup at their destination, they'd get pulled into it. I desperately wish CCP would again "accidentally" implement this change again, and leave it there forever! That would go a long way in balancing this ugly mechanic.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#23 - 2014-04-15 15:35:03 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic


No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.


Bacon makes us stronger
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#24 - 2014-04-15 15:55:21 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic


No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.




Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game.

Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#25 - 2014-04-15 16:18:22 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic


No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.




Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game.

Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship.


Different strokes, I guess. In my opinion, bubbles give the campers/home team a game-breaking advantage, and I think you know this. Before the interceptor change, traveling from point A to point B could be completely shut down by an active gate camp. On paper, this might sound very appropriate for EVE's harsh universe, but I think that in practice, it just translated to poor gameplay.

After having tried hisec, lowsec, and nullsec, I'm starting to think that lowsec offers some of the best gameplay, and the lack of bubbles is a huge part of this. When we get a pod in low, it means we had competent fast-tackle, and even then, the pilot probably still had a chance to get his pod out provided they knew what they were doing.

I respect that you enjoy the null-life, and support your right to bubbles. Just saying that nullified intys provided a much needed fix to this broken game mechanic.

Bacon makes us stronger
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#26 - 2014-04-15 16:45:11 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

3.) Interdiction Nullification is a terrible mechanic


No, bubbles are a terrible mechanic.




Bubbles are one of the most interesting, tactically useful mechanics in the game.

Sure, gate camps are boring, but my suggestion doesn't prevent a nullified ship from passing through a gate camp. It does, however, mean that you have to be a bit more prepared in your travels than simply boarding a nullified ship.


Different strokes, I guess. In my opinion, bubbles give the campers/home team a game-breaking advantage, and I think you know this. Before the interceptor change, traveling from point A to point B could be completely shut down by an active gate camp. On paper, this might sound very appropriate for EVE's harsh universe, but I think that in practice, it just translated to poor gameplay.

After having tried hisec, lowsec, and nullsec, I'm starting to think that lowsec offers some of the best gameplay, and the lack of bubbles is a huge part of this. When we get a pod in low, it means we had competent fast-tackle, and even then, the pilot probably still had a chance to get his pod out provided they knew what they were doing.

I respect that you enjoy the null-life, and support your right to bubbles. Just saying that nullified intys provided a much needed fix to this broken game mechanic.


I'm not a fan of "You shall not pass" gate camps. When I'm out soloing though, I often use drag/catch bubbles to pull ships off a gate or a Jump bridge so I can destroy them, as well as dictate my engagement starting range.

My changes to Nullification would still allow you to move from point A to point B fairly unmolested. It does mean that you cannot warp gate to gate though, as you may be caught in a drag bubble. This makes having tacs around a gate and preplanning yoru route much more important, as obstacles may exist on your route.

Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes. However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.


Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#27 - 2014-04-15 16:57:39 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I'm not a fan of "You shall not pass" gate camps. When I'm out soloing though, I often use drag/catch bubbles to pull ships off a gate or a Jump bridge so I can destroy them, as well as dictate my engagement starting range.

My changes to Nullification would still allow you to move from point A to point B fairly unmolested. It does mean that you cannot warp gate to gate though, as you may be caught in a drag bubble. This makes having tacs around a gate and preplanning yoru route much more important, as obstacles may exist on your route.

Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes.


I think maybe we're forgetting that we're talking about a single ship class here. Interceptors used to be fairly useless flying coffins. Now they actually have a role which you already covered: "having tacs around a gate and preplanning your route". The only opposition I have to your idea is that it proposes a nerf where I'd rather see a buff. If interdiciton nullifier was a module that could be fit to any ship, that would be a different situation.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.


I haven't done much with covops, so I can't speak to that. Perhaps they need to be nullified too? Pirate

Bacon makes us stronger
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#28 - 2014-04-15 17:07:02 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:

I think maybe we're forgetting that we're talking about a single ship class here. Interceptors used to be fairly useless flying coffins. Now they actually have a role which you already covered: "having tacs around a gate and preplanning your route". The only opposition I have to your idea is that it proposes a nerf where I'd rather see a buff. If interdiciton nullifier was a module that could be fit to any ship, that would be a different situation.


Our opinions are so opposite. I have been using interceptors in fleets for the last 5 years, and I've never had the opinion that they are "fairly useless flying coffins". In my experience, that statement is so far from the truth I can't comprehend how you came to that belief. Perhaps you simply PvP in lowsec as a pirate, where gate guns destroy interceptors and ruin much of their utility. In nullsec, a good inty pilot is often the MVP of the fleet.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-04-15 17:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
The idea of a scout able to pass though hostile barrages and tackle something seemed really cool.

But in fact we see now only fleets of inties.

They roam across all systems in total (near total) impunity they engage lone targets and run if something able to kill them arrive.

If the goal was to find a way to reduce farming, I think there was other options.

It is nearly impossible to protect your SOV against these fleets. It is as boring as afk cloakers to hunt.

Where is the fun?

I always thought that each type of fleet should have an appropriate response. But as for the AFK cloakers the only appropriate response is docking or moving away...

I don't see the point.

EDIT: Heavy dictors bubble should be able to catch nullified ships... Perharps with a special script.

really? again? AFK cloaking is not a thing.; at best it's a misnomer for someone laying in wait not afk. You don't have to leave or log. You have a lot of options.. it's not my fault you can't think of them. Just one is you can set up a trap using your own cloakers. The AFK can't hurt you...a cloaked ship cannot hurt you.. watch local and go about your business.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#30 - 2014-04-15 17:22:09 UTC
Introduce a new kind of probe for the dictors and/or a script for the hictors that adds mass to things around it (increasing align time, reducing speed) and I'll support it. None of this "disrupts warp through immunity" bollocks.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-04-15 17:28:54 UTC
There's lots of fun to be had, at least for us anyways :)

On the plus side we're doing our bit to keep the demand for ishtars steady.
Lin Fatale
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-04-15 17:48:59 UTC
In my opinion the ceptor nulify thing is a bad design
why were they introduced?
- to make scouting easier?
--> was fine before

- that you can catch something behind 50T2 anchored bubbles on evry ratting systems
--> sure always good idea to introduce a bad design to counter antoher bad design

- to travel faster
--> you can do this w/o nulified thingy
--> maybe a better map design helps as well

how is it used today
50+ ceptors fleets evry day
to gank one ship and run away as soon as 3 ships undock
the running away mode starts as soon as your ceptor fleet undock
must be the fun for the real man which I just dont understand

and the counters are very limited
- smartbomb theory, yeah show us your dozen of killed ceptor fleets please
- the truth is, by the time you have found the right pipe and moved your BSes 3 jumps there are in the next region already
Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-04-15 18:24:12 UTC
No. Just because you are a goon and i see lots of goons in Inty fleets.
Dave Stark
#34 - 2014-04-15 18:35:01 UTC
isn't the counter just high scan res high alpha ships?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#35 - 2014-04-15 19:33:03 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:



Currently, the nullified system essentially allows you to ignore obstacles, and I don't think that is a good thing. Granted, a ReSebo'd ship can still catch your inty, especially thanks to the agility changes. However, now the inty is a better recon ship than covops, and that is just wrong.




In my covert ops I can fly behind a fleet all day and report on their whereabouts, set up and tactics without being seen. Interceptors are not designed to do that.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2014-04-15 19:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Lin Fatale wrote:
and the counters are very limited
- smartbomb theory, yeah show us your dozen of killed ceptor fleets please
- the truth is, by the time you have found the right pipe and moved your BSes 3 jumps there are in the next region already


Oh dear lord ... I really have to write counters down after all. I would be embarrassed, but I am not you:


  1. T1 Destroyers like Arty Thrashers or Talwars eat ceptors for breakfast.
  2. Smartbomb camps
  3. insta-locking camps/ships
  4. long range ceptor fleets
  5. Cruiser fleets
  6. Assault Frig fleets
  7. Any fleet with webbing/long range tackle ships
  8. Any fleet with webbing ships and drone boats
  9. Any fleet that can neut on medium and long range
  10. ...


You see, this is at least 9 general counters to any ceptor fleet. LEARN. TO. PLAY.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#37 - 2014-04-15 20:07:54 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

maybe counter an inty gang with an ACTUAL INTY gang


Your solution to a person annoyed by the number of Indy gangs is: Moar inty gangs.
Just saying lol
Lin Fatale
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-04-15 20:38:32 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lin Fatale wrote:
and the counters are very limited
- smartbomb theory, yeah show us your dozen of killed ceptor fleets please
- the truth is, by the time you have found the right pipe and moved your BSes 3 jumps there are in the next region already


Oh dear lord ... I really have to write counters down after all. I would be embarrassed, but I am not you:


  1. T1 Destroyers like Arty Thrashers or Talwars eat ceptors for breakfast.
  2. Smartbomb camps
  3. insta-locking camps/ships
  4. long range ceptor fleets
  5. Cruiser fleets
  6. Assault Frig fleets
  7. Any fleet with webbing/long range tackle ships
  8. Any fleet with webbing ships and drone boats
  9. Any fleet that can neut on medium and long range
  10. ...


You see, this is at least 9 general counters to any ceptor fleet. LEARN. TO. PLAY.


I guess you did not get it
it is not a question of whatever fleet concept can kill them

The issue is, ceptor fleets usually dont fight anything
most of them avoid every possible fight
they jump in and warp off if you have more than 3 ships of whatever

no and I dont want to setup remote sebo gate camps to maybe kill 1 ceptor
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2014-04-15 20:44:38 UTC
Lin Fatale wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lin Fatale wrote:
and the counters are very limited
- smartbomb theory, yeah show us your dozen of killed ceptor fleets please
- the truth is, by the time you have found the right pipe and moved your BSes 3 jumps there are in the next region already


Oh dear lord ... I really have to write counters down after all. I would be embarrassed, but I am not you:


  1. T1 Destroyers like Arty Thrashers or Talwars eat ceptors for breakfast.
  2. Smartbomb camps
  3. insta-locking camps/ships
  4. long range ceptor fleets
  5. Cruiser fleets
  6. Assault Frig fleets
  7. Any fleet with webbing/long range tackle ships
  8. Any fleet with webbing ships and drone boats
  9. Any fleet that can neut on medium and long range
  10. ...


You see, this is at least 9 general counters to any ceptor fleet. LEARN. TO. PLAY.


I guess you did not get it
it is not a question of whatever fleet concept can kill them

The issue is, ceptor fleets usually dont fight anything
most of them avoid every possible fight
they jump in and warp off if you have more than 3 ships of whatever

no and I dont want to setup remote sebo gate camps to maybe kill 1 ceptor


Then stop complaining if you don't want to put effort into catching a fleet and fight anyways. And if they don't fight, everything is fine for you renters to begin with...

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-04-15 21:53:31 UTC
Grab some of those fancy Caracals, load up some RLMLs, and reduce those inty gangs to dust.

Things are only impossible until they are not.