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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Hi/Low Sec Covert Ops Hauling

Author
Lazy Eye McGriff
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-04-15 02:03:00 UTC
I'm thinking about trying to make some money hauling items from high sec trade hubs to low sec hotspots. I know that jump freighters do the heavy lifting in this area, but i'm thinking that there is a little bit to be made without all the extra expense and complication. Assuming I get into a covert ops transport, where are the biggest risks?

It seems like as long as I have a bookmark for an instant undock warp point, the risk is pretty low as long as I stay out of nullsec and the bubbles that accompany gate camps there. Will gate campers in hi/low sec have enough time to lock me before I can cloak after breaking the gate cloak?

Are there danger points other than docking/undocking and reestablishing my cloak after I travel through a gate? Those seem to be the only points where I would be vulnerable. Am I missing something?

I'm open to any suggestions on things to look out for or ways that I can mitigate risk while delivering to lowsec (I know about using the star map to look for lots of ship kills before I jump into a system). I won't fly a ship I can't replace, but I would like to minimize the number of times I get kaboomed and I'm afraid that I'm missing some big picture dangers.

Thanks!
Lemon Nado
The Circus Corp
#2 - 2014-04-15 02:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lemon Nado
Check out red frog.

Www.red-frog.org

Used them.... Great! Also null sec transport....

Look at their site. They got a good skill list and hints on how they organize. And yes..... There is much more to it than meets the eye.

L

Ps: here is a cool tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLdYVELWrQ
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#3 - 2014-04-15 02:48:07 UTC
You can be caught by instalock gatecamps, as well as by gatecamps that use tricks to break your cloak.

Docking is particularly dangerous unless you have pre-prepared instadock bookmarks.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#4 - 2014-04-15 03:16:12 UTC
I've never once in the entire time I've played been caught in low-sec in a stealth-capable ship in any encounter I did not personally initiate.

Honestly, the number of times I've been caught even in a null-sec bubble-camp in a stealth boat is well below the number of times I've gotten an expensive ship blown up by NPCs in a mission or site because I fell asleep or was drinking.

Basically if you're running a stealth transport I wouldn't worry about safety much at all, just:

-- Don't fit things that increase your sig radius (faster locks on you)

-- Don't ever stop along your route just to hang out

-- Have a safe spot in every system and one or two instant-undock points for every station (I like to have one at 200 km and one at 10 or 11 Mm). Keep these somewhere where you can hit them fast and rarely hit the wrong one so you can beat your undock immunity timers.

I mean, that SOUNDS kinda like it's necessary paranoia, but most of it really falls under basic competence. The only part you'll have to put a lot of real thought or skill into is figuring out what to ship where and when shipping contracts are an intentional trap/scam.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-04-15 14:21:35 UTC
Confirming covops hauling in lowsec is extremely safe.

For stations, insta-undocks are a must, along with insta-docks (just warping @zero can actually land you 2km+ from docking range, fast-locking high-alpha ships can blap you while you're slowboating).

On gates, being locked before you cloak is almost impossible. BUT you are vulnerable to being decloaked, either by random objects (wrecks, corpses Smile, ...) or fast ships burning for your position (you appear on overview and in space for a second). You can counter this with good piloting, fast align time, a warp stab or two. Or holding your gate cloak hoping that someone else will jump in and get caught first! Or convoing the intie pilot to distract him Smile.

If you want to be paranoid, use a disposable scout to jump ahead of you. In a big system with long warps, you can even set up a safespot close to the out-gate to minimize the time between you're scout giving you the thumbs up and you actually landing on gate and jumping. Pre-align to the out-gate while in the safespot.

Nothing in EVE is 100% safe (at the very least, connection and/or server problems can ruin your day) but, crossing my fingers, I have never been blapped in lowsec with a covops cloak and only once in a mwd+normal cloak Iteron V, and that was only because I got cocky and jumped into a gate camp on purpose, appearing 1.5km from a nasty pirate Big smile.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#6 - 2014-04-15 14:40:07 UTC
Biggest problem you're going to have using a blockade runner is cargo space. They can barely fit a packaged cruiser.

If you're moving small items around, it can work, but it's not sufficient for any meaningful volume of goods.
Lazy Eye McGriff
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-04-15 15:27:46 UTC
Thanks for all the tips.

Sounds like I need to skill and fit for quick align times and I will be in pretty good shape.

If you see me on local.... my ship is empty. This is not the transport you are looking for. Lol
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2014-04-15 17:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
In general, lowsec is empty / low population.

If you have a second account with a scout, you can easily move an industrial or deep space transport through lowsec if you are cautions. You can even dock in every system along the path until the scout has cleared the next gate.

You can even move through w-space, which people often forget. It requires more prep work. but it can greatly simplify moving larger quantities bigger distances. Hence my Orca pilot can use probes [an Orca can use the majority of all wormholes]. Hisec-to-hisec wormholes can be really handy too, but are never where you want them.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#9 - 2014-04-15 22:56:18 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
In general, lowsec is empty / low population.

If you have a second account with a scout, you can easily move an industrial or deep space transport through lowsec if you are cautions. You can even dock in every system along the path until the scout has cleared the next gate.

You can even move through w-space, which people often forget. It requires more prep work. but it can greatly simplify moving larger quantities bigger distances. Hence my Orca pilot can use probes [an Orca can use the majority of all wormholes]. Hisec-to-hisec wormholes can be really handy too, but are never where you want them.



Wormholes are fantastic for getting stuff from deep null to a highsec trade hub, not sure I'd use them to avoid lowsec jumps, however. Too much chance of finding your route bubblecamped.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Ovv Topik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-04-15 23:29:39 UTC
Quicker than training for a Blockade Runner and just as effective in Low is to use a std hauler with a 10mn MWD (you need some PG mods in the lows) and just do the MWD/Cloak trick.

Guide here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4

Much cheaper and therefore less risky. And more cargo space than a BR.

But still use safes for docking/undocking.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-04-16 00:42:04 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:
Quicker than training for a Blockade Runner and just as effective in Low is to use a std hauler with a 10mn MWD (you need some PG mods in the lows) and just do the MWD/Cloak trick.

Guide here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4

Much cheaper and therefore less risky. And more cargo space than a BR.

But still use safes for docking/undocking.
Yes it works but a BR is so much better:

. Aligns in 5-6 secs instead of 10 (MWD cycle)

. Has some tank, meaning alpha (and smartbombs) will not always kill you (if for example you fit warp stabs to escape from a point or two)

. Is much faster (close to 2.000 m/s on oh'd mwd), has at least a chance to burn back to gate if not immediately scrammed & webbed, also a chance to quickly get out of decloaking range of any object you may be unlucky enough to land on

. Cloaks in warp, meaning smartbombers will not pick you up as incoming on dscan

. Warps at 6 AU/s instead of 3!!! This makes hauling infinitely less boring! <-- my personal favorite feature of BRs

. Costs 100M more, but that's nothing if you're regularly hauling 1B ISK of stuff


I agree on the cargo limitation obviously. But the double warp speed means you can do 2 runs in the same time you would do 1 in a 3au/s indy.


TL;DR use a mwd+cloak T1 indy to learn some tricks while you're training for a BR, then sell it and invest in a BR, best money you'll ever spend Smile

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Seraphi Nephalis
Seraphi Nephalis Corporation
#12 - 2014-04-16 02:47:25 UTC
Noob question: What is an insta dock/undock?

"What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness."  - Usagi Yojimbo

Forumata Altaris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-04-16 07:11:18 UTC
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:
Noob question: What is an insta dock/undock?


This is a bookmark you set up in a "straight line" outside the station, allowing you to spam "warp" as soon as you undock and immediately warp to this bookmark while still under the temporary immunity from having just undocked.

Example:
* Undock from your station with a fast ship.
* Don't change your direction, just keep burning in the same direction as the undock set you on.
* Once you are 150km+ away from the station, create a bookmark and name it something like [StationName_SafeUndock_1].
* Next time you undock, warp to this location.

This should help you avoid the majority of nasty, evil stuff waiting for you outside the station before they can lock you.
Note: Should.
Ovv Topik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-04-16 10:40:55 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Ovv Topik wrote:
Quicker than training for a Blockade Runner and just as effective in Low is to use a std hauler with a 10mn MWD (you need some PG mods in the lows) and just do the MWD/Cloak trick.

Guide here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4

Much cheaper and therefore less risky. And more cargo space than a BR.

But still use safes for docking/undocking.




TL;DR use a mwd+cloak T1 indy to learn some tricks while you're training for a BR, then sell it and invest in a BR, best money you'll ever spend Smile

Yea, I kind of meant it like that. Use it enroute to a BR.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Ovv Topik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-04-16 10:44:35 UTC
Seraphi Nephalis wrote:
Noob question: What is an insta dock/undock?

And a safe docking BM is one that is made as close to the station as poss.

Undock. Burn back to the station until you are actually touching it and make a BM.

The reason is that station docking perimeters vary, and sometimes you can warp to 0 or click dock and warp in to a station from a gate, and still land 50km out having to coast in.

Warp to the instadock BM instead and spam 'dock' and you should be safe.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Lazy Eye McGriff
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-04-16 15:05:29 UTC
Oooh, I like the MWD/cloak thing. I can give that a try now until I get my skills up for the covert. Seems a bit more risky... but a great chance to learn and I can start moving stuff now to see if my planned route is as profitable as I think it will be.

One thing I love about this game is that many of the people who are so helpful here on the forums are the same ones who will be blowing up my ships in game. Love the PvP environment even though I am prey and not predator... it adds excitement. I'm happy to see that the total PvP atmosphere in game doesn't bleed over to completely juvenile forums like many other games.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-04-16 15:14:13 UTC
Lazy Eye McGriff wrote:
Oooh, I like the MWD/cloak thing. I can give that a try now until I get my skills up for the covert. Seems a bit more risky... but a great chance to learn and I can start moving stuff now to see if my planned route is as profitable as I think it will be.

One thing I love about this game is that many of the people who are so helpful here on the forums are the same ones who will be blowing up my ships in game. Love the PvP environment even though I am prey and not predator... it adds excitement. I'm happy to see that the total PvP atmosphere in game doesn't bleed over to completely juvenile forums like many other games.
Learning to be a 'smart prey' gets you one step closer to embracing both sides of PVP!

Looking forward to blowing you up in a combat ship someday Big smile.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#18 - 2014-04-16 15:43:02 UTC
Lazy Eye McGriff wrote:
Oooh, I like the MWD/cloak thing. I can give that a try now until I get my skills up for the covert. Seems a bit more risky... but a great chance to learn and I can start moving stuff now to see if my planned route is as profitable as I think it will be.

One thing I love about this game is that many of the people who are so helpful here on the forums are the same ones who will be blowing up my ships in game. Love the PvP environment even though I am prey and not predator... it adds excitement. I'm happy to see that the total PvP atmosphere in game doesn't bleed over to completely juvenile forums like many other games.


GD
>>

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#19 - 2014-04-16 19:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Lazy Eye McGriff wrote:
Oooh, I like the MWD/cloak thing. I can give that a try now until I get my skills up for the covert. Seems a bit more risky... but a great chance to learn and I can start moving stuff now to see if my planned route is as profitable as I think it will be.

One thing I love about this game is that many of the people who are so helpful here on the forums are the same ones who will be blowing up my ships in game. Love the PvP environment even though I am prey and not predator... it adds excitement. I'm happy to see that the total PvP atmosphere in game doesn't bleed over to completely juvenile forums like many other games.

GD
>>

Pffft, get real! There are more troll-laden forums than that:

* General Discussion (GD)
* Crime & Punishment (C&P)
* Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions (CAOD)

CAOD got so bad that I don't think anybody uses it anymore. Some corps / alliances have a "no posting" rule even. Kugu is used for "ship-toasting" instead.

EVE New Citizens Q&A is an oasis forum where trolling is forbidden. Skill Discussions forum is also pretty decent. I personally hangout a lot in these, as well as Science & Industry.