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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#1741 - 2014-05-02 09:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Lin
Hilarious that I can call out Kaarous Aldurald stupidity at any time of the day and within a couple minutes he is there to respond with some equally asinine drivel. Lol

It just goes to show you. It must really suck to be that clown. He seems to think a feedback thread is some place for him to have a social life. Roll

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1742 - 2014-05-02 09:15:18 UTC
Priestess Lin wrote:
Hilarious that I can call out Kaarous Aldurald stupidity at any time of the day and within a couple minutes he is there to respond with some equally asinine drivel. Lol

It just goes to show you. It must really suck to be that clown. He seems to think a feedback thread is some place for him to have a social life. Roll


That, or I subscribe to F&I ship balancing threads...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1743 - 2014-05-02 09:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:

I have backed up my statements much more than you, kiddo. This is a feedback thread. That is fact.

Now quit throwing a tantrum about it. You are wrong. Deal with it. Try to find something more productive to do than living on these forums. It is pathetic.


You haven't backed up anything. Mostly you just personally attack me because I have stated emphatically that the loss of bonused light drones in exchange for a massive drone hitpoint boost and a highly adaptable missile damage bonus is more than worth the tradeoff.

Because if you bought a pirate battleship to use light drones, then you're doing it so wrong that it can't be explained in words.

Woah there, back up a minute......
Massive drone hitpoint boost in exchange for losing light drones?.

We got nothing of the sort, that is what all the upset is about.
We Got sentry and heavy drones with absolutely ZERO extra abilities. The bonus simply gives 2 sentries the DPS of the current 5.
Since the omninerf sentries hit for **** anyway. Frustrating as hell.

We do not mind, in fact we WANT decent useable superdrones, not pretend flight of superdrones that are just 5 squashed into a smaller package of two.

Give us superdrones that do not force you to use just missiles for small ship control, because with cruise missiles, you will take forever to kill elite frigates or spider drones, and sentries will not kill them, killing angel elites with gardes? Good luck with that.

There is only one fit now possible, rapid heavy , rigors, with T2 launchers. Anything else is an accident waiting to happen, and there are far better ships cheaper, easier to skill for, and just plain better.
The rattlesnakes passive fit advantage has gone with the need to fit rigors, so why on earth would anyone fly it except as an expensive Gankmobile.

So Give the rattlesnake DECENT superdrones, that can also kill elite frigates, and the ship will have a real following. Without just a waste of space.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1744 - 2014-05-02 09:20:15 UTC
motie one wrote:

Woah there, back up a minute......
Massive drone hitpoint boost in exchange for losing light drones?.


Yes, and the super drones get the dps and effective hitpoints of 5 drones.

The major balancing point of drones is their ability to be destroyed. The super drone concept mitigates that rather well, especially as it really helps them against bombs and smartbombs, two common counters.

Whatever else, the hitpoints is a fairly decent buff against one of the major weaknesses of drones.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1745 - 2014-05-02 09:25:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Hilarious that I can call out Kaarous Aldurald stupidity at any time of the day and within a couple minutes he is there to respond with some equally asinine drivel. Lol

It just goes to show you. It must really suck to be that clown. He seems to think a feedback thread is some place for him to have a social life. Roll


That, or I subscribe to F&I ship balancing threads...


Let it go m8 - Everyone is entitled to an opinion on how much use feedback threads are (Rapid Launcher threads spring to mind) and right or wrong their opinion is theirs and doesn't have to agree with others.
There are many in this thread have had many differing points of view on the "New & Improved" (LOL) Snake but bickering over points of view, right and wrong, does no more than derail the thread.

If we want Devs to take the thread and feedback within seriously it needs to remain, civil.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1746 - 2014-05-02 09:27:22 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:

Woah there, back up a minute......
Massive drone hitpoint boost in exchange for losing light drones?.


Yes, and the super drones get the dps and effective hitpoints of 5 drones.

The major balancing point of drones is their ability to be destroyed. The super drone concept mitigates that rather well, especially as it really helps them against bombs and smartbombs, two common counters.

Whatever else, the hitpoints is a fairly decent buff against one of the major weaknesses of drones.


What has that got do do with the issue!?

The super drone concept is fine, can we have a type that is of some damn use please? The sentries and heavies on this ship suck, that is what these 80+ pages are about.
The loss of the other drone functionality had been replaced with nothing, absolutely nothing, It has made the ship much less capable, requiring way, way more management, the only possible fits to try to overcome the issues, lose the only advantage the rattlesnake had. And it does nothing better than other ships.

Excuse capitals.

GIVE US DECENT SUPERDRONES WORTHY OF THEIR NAME,

we do not care if they are called lights, mediums, heavies, or obliterators, superdrones need to kill small large and medium targets, as they replace the existing drone weapons system. You cannot rip out the drone bay, and fill it with a few drones with existing stats, (or even worse removing the bonus) and a couple of unimproved fat ones and call it done.

The new superdrone weapons system overall, as a system, is far far worse than the existing system, overall.

Decent superdrones that do the job properly, and replace the existing system,in it's ability to deal with targets of all sizes, will give a decent result. Without, overall in spite of apparent "shineys" it will be a worse ship overall.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1747 - 2014-05-02 09:32:52 UTC
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1748 - 2014-05-02 09:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.

We see and overcome, the complications, and limitations of drones, sentries, every day, every hour, we understand the frustrations, of switching sentry type, switching size, as range changes, and for new spawns of different sized ships. We deal with this and overcome.

The effect of this new drone weapons system is how it totally changes all that, change is fine, but this is not fine change. It is a deformed montrosity.

Decent superdrones replacing the existing is fine.

But if you replace an entire weapons system, you need to replace the existing weapons system as a whole.
Not drop in a couple of fat boys and we are done.
Israeli Shitbag
Doomheim
#1749 - 2014-05-02 09:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Israeli Shitbag
You people would have to be ******** to think these changes are a good thing. The torpedo range made torpedoes actually viable. I flew mine with a Rapier and my DPS was excellent. Fury torpedos take out battleships in no time and the +50 drones clean up everything else very quickly. Now everything will just fly out of range and I will be forced into using heavy drones. Ugh

+50% DPS doesn't matter when the target is out of range, and that happens easily when you are using Furys in a ship as slow as a Snake. Losing 400m3 drone bay also sucks. Not looking forward to these horrible changes.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1750 - 2014-05-02 09:40:52 UTC
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.


You are right that it loses something.

I believe they are intending the extremely powerful and adaptable missile bonus as the compensation for that.

The drones are the "Large guns", now, it seems to me.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1751 - 2014-05-02 09:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.


You are right that it loses something.

I believe they are intending the extremely powerful and adaptable missile bonus as the compensation for that.

The drones are the "Large guns", now, it seems to me.


I believe, that the concept just needs a tiny bit more thinking through. And the poor scaling to battleships was the result of fanfest coming and a high workload. Just missing the issues that are created here. That is quite understandable.

I also believe that the rattlesnake is NOT in a place that CCP will leave it.

Small changes, remembering they are ripping out a weapons system that needs replacing with the superdrone system, that works. And listening to the feedback and we will get to a good place.

Otherwise we will end up with a ship that a very few like, and they will soon realise that there are better ships for that exact job, maybe not using exactly that weapon, but that do the job better.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1752 - 2014-05-02 09:50:42 UTC
Again, not arguing that heavy drones leave something to be desired.

Merely putting forth what I suspect the design intent was behind the changes as they exist.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1753 - 2014-05-02 09:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.


You are right that it loses something.

I believe they are intending the extremely powerful and adaptable missile bonus as the compensation for that.

The drones are the "Large guns", now, it seems to me.


And that is the horrifying thought.

Imagine ripping out the drones on the rattlesnake and replacing with large railguns?

Somewhat changes it doesn't it.Sad

Honestly one would need to be wrapped like a christmas turkey in tinfoil. To believe that Rise would Try to slip that through without anyone noticing.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#1754 - 2014-05-02 09:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Lin
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Hilarious that I can call out Kaarous Aldurald stupidity at any time of the day and within a couple minutes he is there to respond with some equally asinine drivel. Lol

It just goes to show you. It must really suck to be that clown. He seems to think a feedback thread is some place for him to have a social life. Roll


That, or I subscribe to F&I ship balancing threads...



Accept that you are wrong. People have valid complaints and you respond to every one of them like a blithering *****.

These valid complaints about the RS are as follows.

The loss of 400m3 Drone bay. The loss of missile velocity bonus. Multiple Role changes. The loss of +50% damage on light and medium drones. Greatly increased weaknesses to Ewar due to new dependance on missiles as primary DPS system and using 2 drones instead of 5. Specialization of DPS.

Despite all your shrieking and jumping around, trying to deny the obvious, these facts remain. The additional DPS the Snake needed to come in-line with other pirate faction battleships was obvious not worth this heavy price it unnecessarily has to pay.

Accept you are wrong and respect other peoples opinions. The new Rattlesnake sucks. Deal with it.

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1755 - 2014-05-02 09:56:39 UTC
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.


You are right that it loses something.

I believe they are intending the extremely powerful and adaptable missile bonus as the compensation for that.

The drones are the "Large guns", now, it seems to me.


And that is the horrifying thought.

Imagine ripping out the drones on the rattlesnake and replacing with large railguns?

Somewhat changes it doesn't it.Sad


Correct. Like I said a while back (probably got deleted since it was a reply to epicurus' epic trolling), I believe the Snake is now supposed to treat it's drone systems like they were the primary weapon on a battleship, while the missiles, given the Snake's fitting issue (seriously needs more CPU, dammit) constrain it to one of the Rapid series, which act as a powerful secondary weapon system.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1756 - 2014-05-02 10:02:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.


You are right that it loses something.

I believe they are intending the extremely powerful and adaptable missile bonus as the compensation for that.

The drones are the "Large guns", now, it seems to me.


And that is the horrifying thought.

Imagine ripping out the drones on the rattlesnake and replacing with large railguns?

Somewhat changes it doesn't it.Sad


Correct. Like I said a while back (probably got deleted since it was a reply to epicurus' epic trolling), I believe the Snake is now supposed to treat it's drone systems like they were the primary weapon on a battleship, while the missiles, given the Snake's fitting issue (seriously needs more CPU, dammit) constrain it to one of the Rapid series, which act as a powerful secondary weapon system.



You really are an unpleasant piece of trash, aren't you?
I am keeping my peace, trying to keep my balance after your trolling war against me as I dared to raise this issue in the first place.
The ONLY posts of mine that were deleted were ones replying to other posts in defence against trolls.

Your sole intention is to get the Ship you want, and you use any means possible to get it, even if you destroy people, and destroy a decent ship for other people.

I will not tell you what I think of you and your many, many, characters as that would make me as much a despicable troll as you.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1757 - 2014-05-02 10:03:13 UTC
I think it's fair to say that the dev team are quite taken with the super-drone thing at the moment.

I have yet to see the dev team change its mind significantly in response to player feedback, so it's a fair bet that we'll see super drones this summer, along with helpless rattlesnakes taken apart by frigate gangs. (hint: I'll be in the frigate gang)

Hopefully some future dev team will realise the error of their predecessors and re-think it.

I guess we'll see the results on eve-kill.net pretty soon...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
motie one
Secret Passage
#1758 - 2014-05-02 10:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I think it's fair to say that the dev team are quite taken with the super-drone thing at the moment.

I have yet to see the dev team change its mind significantly in response to player feedback, so it's a fair bet that we'll see super drones this summer, along with helpless rattlesnakes taken apart by frigate gangs. (hint: I'll be in the frigate gang)

Hopefully some future dev team will realise the error of their predecessors and re-think it.

I guess we'll see the results on eve-kill.net pretty soon...



I agree that they are taken with the idea of superdrones.
So we should try to help them to get them on this ship in a healthy and useful form before all hell breaks loose.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1759 - 2014-05-02 10:07:24 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Motie, I genuinely don't see what the problem is with the sentries.

The heavies, yes, they are rather likely to have application issues, but hopefully we can establish that once both this and the drone rebalance hits SiSi.

But the sentries really should be fine.


The important word is overall.
I just explained it above, but your post came in, in the meantime, I really hope it helps you see what everyone is so worried and concerned about.


You are right that it loses something.

I believe they are intending the extremely powerful and adaptable missile bonus as the compensation for that.

The drones are the "Large guns", now, it seems to me.


And that is the horrifying thought.

Imagine ripping out the drones on the rattlesnake and replacing with large railguns?

Somewhat changes it doesn't it.Sad


Correct. Like I said a while back (probably got deleted since it was a reply to epicurus' epic trolling), I believe the Snake is now supposed to treat it's drone systems like they were the primary weapon on a battleship, while the missiles, given the Snake's fitting issue (seriously needs more CPU, dammit) constrain it to one of the Rapid series, which act as a powerful secondary weapon system.

Careful there, i am trying to discuss things in a reasonable way, but theres probably not a single poster here who does not realise what you tried to do to him.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1760 - 2014-05-02 10:08:45 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

You really are an unpleasant piece of trash, aren't you?
I am keeping my peace, trying to keep my balance after your trolling war against me as I dared to raise this issue in the first place.
The ONLY posts of mine that were deleted were ones replying to other posts in defence against trolls.


No, the posts of yours that were deleted were because you spew personal attacks the moment any disagreement pops up. Much like the one above.

And didn't you say you blocked me?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.