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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1681 - 2014-05-01 09:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mournful Conciousness
While I agree that the rattlesnake on offer is not a compelling buy (certainly for pvp), I am not sure I agree that it can be made into a pirate-worthy combat ship by merely fiddling with the drones. DPS is not this ships's problem. It's the lack of any ability to bring asymmetric warfare to a fight. (being in this context defined as neuts, speed, webs, ecm, target painting, scram ranges and so on)

That's my view on its PVP-worthiness (in which I am interested).

If we're discussing PVE ships, we already have many excellent choices, raging from the cheap dominix and ishtar through to the downright extravagant marauders.

In that role, the rattlesnake is nothing more than a drop-in replacement for a navy dominix, which has dubious utility in PVE as it is.

It's going to be a damn shame to see this ship spending another 3 years as a capless level 5 mission runner and killboard fodder.

It could have been a contender. Even a simple thing like a range/strength bonus to ECM BURST (only) would give it an edge in its obvious role as a heavy brawler.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1682 - 2014-05-01 09:40:07 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
motie one wrote:


If it is overall speed and or tracking speed/range I will cheer too and give them a go again, if it is just a MWD improvement then they get to be useless sooner, not such a buff.


I have to disagree. I use ogres on a brawling ishtar very often. I find them very effective. They are even better than you might suppose for disposing of a frigate once the target is webbed and scrammed. This is unsurprising since the natural tracking speed of T2 ogres on an ishtar is 0.495 - nearly that of a light electron blaster II.

The argument for ogres being useless is the same as the argument for heavy assault missiles being useless - that the target needs to be webbed. OK, so web the target! :-)

The travel speed bonus is very welcome as it shortens time between targets once the primary is down. At 2100m/s on an ishtar, ogres are starting to look very attractive indeed since they're now able to keep up with the ship as it travels to its next victim.

Where they may be less effective is when facing an AB nightmare or its cruiser equivalent, the phantasm. That's fine. These ships needed something special to make them useful in pvp. If they have the ability to temporarily escape heavy drones then that's something in their favour. Against these ships, there are always sentries.


The natural tracking speed of T2 Ogres on an Ishtar is indeed 0.495 but then picking the only ship to get such a bonus to what is considered the worst drone line is probably not a good or fair comparison.

What it does really, is show yet again where the new Snake will be lacking. Even with buffs (lol) it is still worse than a T2 cruiser at using the drones it is being specialized into.

For every Heavy Drone Ishtar there are 100 Sentry Ishtar's and those actually see daily use with pretty good success rates.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1683 - 2014-05-01 09:45:03 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The natural tracking speed of T2 Ogres on an Ishtar is indeed 0.495 but then picking the only ship to get such a bonus to what is considered the worst drone line is probably not a good or fair comparison.

What it does really, is show yet again where the new Snake will be lacking. Even with buffs (lol) it is still worse than a T2 cruiser at using the drones it is being specialized into.

For every Heavy Drone Ishtar there are 100 Sentry Ishtar's and those actually see daily use with pretty good success rates.



First things first, I am in complete agreement that the RS is substandard (see above).

Un-bonused ogres still track as well as light neutron blasters. It's not really fair to say that the tracking is poor...

I agree that sentry ishtars are (rightfully) more common than brawler ishtars. I find that people will willingly engage an ishtar at close range believing it to be a sniper. I believe that this gets me fights I might not otherwise have, and very often surprises my opponents.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1684 - 2014-05-01 10:01:27 UTC
motie one wrote:
I was trying to clarify the point of microwarp drive being described as speed, I wondered what I was missing. Now I know I had not missed a buff.

Heavy drones as I said have very limited effectiveness "unless you web the Target".
So they really do not make effective superdrones, and having to web the target now is adding even more levels of micromanagement to a ship that has OcD about it's OcD!

Everything can be worked around, everything can be used.
But the question is should it.

It is not a bad ship as offered, just not fun to use, so why should anyone pick it over the alternatives?


Just give the ship a full Flight of 4/5 Gila class medium superdrones or even 2/3 obliterator (double Gila bonus) class medium drones and all the problems and issues magically disappear and you get a good ship.

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of the Super Drone.

Switching the Snake to medium super drones is as good as saying, remove heavy drones from the game, they have no role. (not true, they just have a very limited role)

Heavy drones on a Snake with a bonus to Activation Proximity would work very well.
Or
A bonus so Heavy Drones get to ignore Activation Proximity and simply fire once in range. Balanced so they do less damage in falloff as Turrets do. (much harder to implement I imagine)

(Sorry, can't do that, it would give the Snake something worth while in a Pvp role)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1685 - 2014-05-01 10:13:41 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The natural tracking speed of T2 Ogres on an Ishtar is indeed 0.495 but then picking the only ship to get such a bonus to what is considered the worst drone line is probably not a good or fair comparison.

What it does really, is show yet again where the new Snake will be lacking. Even with buffs (lol) it is still worse than a T2 cruiser at using the drones it is being specialized into.

For every Heavy Drone Ishtar there are 100 Sentry Ishtar's and those actually see daily use with pretty good success rates.



First things first, I am in complete agreement that the RS is substandard (see above).

Un-bonused ogres still track as well as light neutron blasters. It's not really fair to say that the tracking is poor...

I agree that sentry ishtars are (rightfully) more common than brawler ishtars. I find that people will willingly engage an ishtar at close range believing it to be a sniper. I believe that this gets me fights I might not otherwise have, and very often surprises my opponents.


Yes people often make the mistake of trying to engage Ishtar's at close range, although I use Gardes rather than heavies, I have T2 Heavies trained but never really found them much use, except in Pve where a battleship has closed range (or I've landed at the wrong range - more likely).

I will post summer, give heavies another try, I do believe on a bonused hull (Ishtar) the mwd speed buffs will have a pretty big affect on damage application.
The new Gecko may also find a place on my Ishtar. Launching 2 bonused frigates from a cruiser class ship has appeal Blink

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
motie one
Secret Passage
#1686 - 2014-05-01 11:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
Sgt Ocker wrote:
motie one wrote:
I was trying to clarify the point of microwarp drive being described as speed, I wondered what I was missing. Now I know I had not missed a buff.

Heavy drones as I said have very limited effectiveness "unless you web the Target".
So they really do not make effective superdrones, and having to web the target now is adding even more levels of micromanagement to a ship that has OcD about it's OcD!

Everything can be worked around, everything can be used.
But the question is should it.

It is not a bad ship as offered, just not fun to use, so why should anyone pick it over the alternatives?


Just give the ship a full Flight of 4/5 Gila class medium superdrones or even 2/3 obliterator (double Gila bonus) class medium drones and all the problems and issues magically disappear and you get a good ship.

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of the Super Drone.

Switching the Snake to medium super drones is as good as saying, remove heavy drones from the game, they have no role. (not true, they just have a very limited role)

Heavy drones on a Snake with a bonus to Activation Proximity would work very well.
Or
A bonus so Heavy Drones get to ignore Activation Proximity and simply fire once in range. Balanced so they do less damage in falloff as Turrets do. (much harder to implement I imagine)

(Sorry, can't do that, it would give the Snake something worth while in a Pvp role)


I am not saying heavies have no role, just not on this ship.
Fitting 5 gila class superdrones, transforms this ship.
With a full rack of RHML and a full flight of Gila class medium superdrones, the Rattlesnake becomes a true brawler, both for PvP and PvE. Playing to it's strength and getting something new, a close in , in your face , pedal to the metal, hybrid.

What's not to like.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1687 - 2014-05-01 11:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Barton Breau
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Ugh, do we really need a kinetic damage bonused raven hull? Or a split weapon Scorpion/Raven with rails and missiles? OTOH, given the attention to drones, aside from the RP concerns (although SoE may alleviate that,) what about Rogue Drone ships?

Perish the thought! I would certainly be ok with a Rogue Drone line that was drones, drones and more drones.


POTATOES WITH LEGS!!!!

Anyways, 1-2 turret bs with extra drone bonus aside, it would need something more of a theme, passive armor rep or rep bonus or something else.

Or if everyone would have to capture and tame his own bs...

EDIT: or even more wishful thinking:

- every fitted module needs an hour of flight time to grow in
- can fit 2 reactive hardeners, -100% cap cost
motie one
Secret Passage
#1688 - 2014-05-01 11:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: motie one
So the lore behind it.
The guristas high command has been exploring new tactics to take advantage of the temperament of their recruits.
Never being ones to run away from a fight, the problem has been keeping them alive when they charge into combat, death or glory!

Unfortunately less glory and more death.

Their main line of ships over the years has had superb defence but engaged at range, this did not mesh with the pilots who flew them..
What is the solution.......?

Quote:
Our renowned Guristas engineers, looking at the existing systems decided that the stationary and ranged emphasis of the weapons systems needed changing.

Heavy drones and sentries, did not suit the high speed mobile nature of Guristas tactics.

So taking the very best of modern technology, they focused on the most rapid lethal weapons on the market, and set to improve them.

With great effort they fitted an extra launcher to the Gila and Rattlesnake, and made them not only more powerful, but they enabled the monstrous Rapid heavy Missile launcher as a Primary system, whilst retaining the long range cruise missile,for traditional tactical pilots. This came with reduced range,but a small price to pay for such abilities. On the Gila, rapid lights are the preferred missile, with heavy missiles as the choice of the traditionalist

The drones were more of a problem, whilst a full flight of mediums were possible on the rattlesnake,the Gila could just not fit the bandwidth of the new technology.

Our guristas engineers using technology liberated from codreon, managed to resolve the issue by redesigning the drone bay, giving entangled communication to both the drone weapons system and the nanite control processors.
This gave medium drones the effective capability of 6 unbonused drones each, two could be fitted, rivalling the previous capabilities whilst giving unprecedented mobility.

This stunning breakthrough was then able to be carried through to the Rattlesnake, due to the increased power and fitting space for larger and more powerful equipment, the Rattlesnake was able to fit a full set of these highly advanced drone upgrades.
Using a flight of standard commercially available medium drones, it enabled them to reach the potential of sentry and heavy levels of damage.

The new dronebay design is strictly limited to these exact drone types. Sacrificing all other drone fitting. Just doing a single job spectacularly well.

Our brave and committed Guristas pilots are training in the new tactics made possible through these developments,
things will become very "interesting" for our enemies

Fly Dangerous, Fly hard.

Rabbit
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1689 - 2014-05-01 12:29:58 UTC
motie one wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
motie one wrote:
I was trying to clarify the point of microwarp drive being described as speed, I wondered what I was missing. Now I know I had not missed a buff.

Heavy drones as I said have very limited effectiveness "unless you web the Target".
So they really do not make effective superdrones, and having to web the target now is adding even more levels of micromanagement to a ship that has OcD about it's OcD!

Everything can be worked around, everything can be used.
But the question is should it.

It is not a bad ship as offered, just not fun to use, so why should anyone pick it over the alternatives?


Just give the ship a full Flight of 4/5 Gila class medium superdrones or even 2/3 obliterator (double Gila bonus) class medium drones and all the problems and issues magically disappear and you get a good ship.

That would pretty much defeat the purpose of the Super Drone.

Switching the Snake to medium super drones is as good as saying, remove heavy drones from the game, they have no role. (not true, they just have a very limited role)

Heavy drones on a Snake with a bonus to Activation Proximity would work very well.
Or
A bonus so Heavy Drones get to ignore Activation Proximity and simply fire once in range. Balanced so they do less damage in falloff as Turrets do. (much harder to implement I imagine)

(Sorry, can't do that, it would give the Snake something worth while in a Pvp role)


I am not saying heavies have no role, just not on this ship.
Fitting 5 gila class superdrones, transforms this ship.
With a full rack of RHML and a full flight of Gila class medium superdrones, the Rattlesnake becomes a true brawler, both for PvP and PvE. Playing to it's strength and getting something new, a close in , in your face , pedal to the metal, hybrid.

What's not to like.

I understand that, what I am saying is it would be better to give the Snake a bonus to Heavy drones, rather than change it to medium drones. The only real drawback with heavy drones is, orbit speed + activation proximity.
A 50% increase to "Heavy Drone Activation Proximity" would see them able to "apply" reasonable damage

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1690 - 2014-05-01 13:02:35 UTC
While the medium superdrones are nice, I dont agree that just giving more of them to the Rattlesnake is a good answer.

Traditional drone systems are balanced so that its not a problem that heavier hulls can field lighter drones. The superdrone concept does away with that.

What is needed is a proper bonus to the large drones.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1691 - 2014-05-01 13:15:49 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
While the medium superdrones are nice, I dont agree that just giving more of them to the Rattlesnake is a good answer.

Traditional drone systems are balanced so that its not a problem that heavier hulls can field lighter drones. The superdrone concept does away with that.

What is needed is a proper bonus to the large drones.


IMO the sentries are well served by the current bonus. The heavy drones are the likely candidates for a bit of extra help.

I still want to see them on SiSi before I get the particulars though. Especially once I get the chance to apply them with the new lowslot tracking modules, see how that plays out.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1692 - 2014-05-01 13:47:59 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The natural tracking speed of T2 Ogres on an Ishtar is indeed 0.495 but then picking the only ship to get such a bonus to what is considered the worst drone line is probably not a good or fair comparison.

What it does really, is show yet again where the new Snake will be lacking. Even with buffs (lol) it is still worse than a T2 cruiser at using the drones it is being specialized into.

For every Heavy Drone Ishtar there are 100 Sentry Ishtar's and those actually see daily use with pretty good success rates.



First things first, I am in complete agreement that the RS is substandard (see above).

Un-bonused ogres still track as well as light neutron blasters. It's not really fair to say that the tracking is poor...

I agree that sentry ishtars are (rightfully) more common than brawler ishtars. I find that people will willingly engage an ishtar at close range believing it to be a sniper. I believe that this gets me fights I might not otherwise have, and very often surprises my opponents.


Yes people often make the mistake of trying to engage Ishtar's at close range, although I use Gardes rather than heavies, I have T2 Heavies trained but never really found them much use, except in Pve where a battleship has closed range (or I've landed at the wrong range - more likely).

I will post summer, give heavies another try, I do believe on a bonused hull (Ishtar) the mwd speed buffs will have a pretty big affect on damage application.
The new Gecko may also find a place on my Ishtar. Launching 2 bonused frigates from a cruiser class ship has appeal Blink


if the geckos turn out to be real they're definitely going on my Ishtar, along with 2 mediums and a light.
no way would I waste them on a rattlesnake.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1693 - 2014-05-01 15:20:33 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The natural tracking speed of T2 Ogres on an Ishtar is indeed 0.495 but then picking the only ship to get such a bonus to what is considered the worst drone line is probably not a good or fair comparison.

What it does really, is show yet again where the new Snake will be lacking. Even with buffs (lol) it is still worse than a T2 cruiser at using the drones it is being specialized into.

For every Heavy Drone Ishtar there are 100 Sentry Ishtar's and those actually see daily use with pretty good success rates.



First things first, I am in complete agreement that the RS is substandard (see above).

Un-bonused ogres still track as well as light neutron blasters. It's not really fair to say that the tracking is poor...

I agree that sentry ishtars are (rightfully) more common than brawler ishtars. I find that people will willingly engage an ishtar at close range believing it to be a sniper. I believe that this gets me fights I might not otherwise have, and very often surprises my opponents.


Yes people often make the mistake of trying to engage Ishtar's at close range, although I use Gardes rather than heavies, I have T2 Heavies trained but never really found them much use, except in Pve where a battleship has closed range (or I've landed at the wrong range - more likely).

I will post summer, give heavies another try, I do believe on a bonused hull (Ishtar) the mwd speed buffs will have a pretty big affect on damage application.
The new Gecko may also find a place on my Ishtar. Launching 2 bonused frigates from a cruiser class ship has appeal Blink


if the geckos turn out to be real they're definitely going on my Ishtar, along with 2 mediums and a light.
no way would I waste them on a rattlesnake.


Personally, I believe that only the rattlesnake will be able to launch Geckos. Only personal opinion though.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1694 - 2014-05-01 16:14:52 UTC
Joe Boirele wrote:


Personally, I believe that only the rattlesnake will be able to launch Geckos. Only personal opinion though.


If that turns out to be the case, (CCP Rise please start listening now...) that would be another unfortunate design decision.

Here's why:

Eve is interesting and consuming because players can make pretty much any fitting choices that works for them. 100mn afterburners on a cruiser? done (with compromises). A heavy neut on a recon? done (at the expense of everything else)... and so on. Fitting your fleet is a fun optimisation game in itself, even before the fight.

When we start introducing 'special' modules to go on 'special' ships, we start to pigeonhole ships into narrow roles, so fitting diversity suffers and the game is less enjoyable.

The bastion module is an example of this. The marauder without it is unusable. With it is completely predictable.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1695 - 2014-05-01 16:24:24 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
If that turns out to be the case, that would be another unfortunate design decision.

Foreshadowing...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1696 - 2014-05-01 17:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Boirele
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


When we start introducing 'special' modules to go on 'special' ships, we start to pigeonhole ships into narrow roles, so fitting diversity suffers and the game is less enjoyable.

The bastion module is an example of this. The marauder without it is unusable. With it is completely predictable.


I'm not quite sure of this. I believe you can still use a marauder, even without bastion (though I admit I have no experience in marauders). In addition, covert op cloaks are ship restricted, so are siege, doomsday, triage, and a wide array of inferno prototype modules. The only thing special modules add are more options. You don't have to fit a triage module on your carrier, but you can if you want. You don't have to fit your stealth bomber with a covert ops cloak, but if you want to you can.

EDIT: I by no means recommend not fitting a stealth bomber with a covert ops cloak. I was only pointing out that you aren't forced to use it.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1697 - 2014-05-01 18:51:13 UTC
Joe Boirele wrote:
I'm not quite sure of this. I believe you can still use a marauder, even without bastion (though I admit I have no experience in marauders).

To be sure. You basically end up with a slightly less tanky version of the Faction equivalent, although it uses less ammunition, has better damage application and offers built-in salvage capabilities with substantial cargo space. It's a bit slower and less agile, but has increased warp speed for missioning. Bastion allows you to really expand damage application at the expense of running a very light tank, and is essentially a "get-out-of-jail-free" card if you take on too much aggro or get EW'd.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#1698 - 2014-05-01 18:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Joe Boirele wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:


When we start introducing 'special' modules to go on 'special' ships, we start to pigeonhole ships into narrow roles, so fitting diversity suffers and the game is less enjoyable.

The bastion module is an example of this. The marauder without it is unusable. With it is completely predictable.


I'm not quite sure of this. I believe you can still use a marauder, even without bastion (though I admit I have no experience in marauders). In addition, covert op cloaks are ship restricted, so are siege, doomsday, triage, and a wide array of inferno prototype modules. The only thing special modules add are more options. You don't have to fit a triage module on your carrier, but you can if you want. You don't have to fit your stealth bomber with a covert ops cloak, but if you want to you can.

EDIT: I by no means recommend not fitting a stealth bomber with a covert ops cloak. I was only pointing out that you aren't forced to use it.


I love my marauders. I use a bastioned Golem for 4s and an unbastioned Vargur for incursions. I love them both. Even when you have the bastion mod fit you don't use it 100% of the time. It's a nice OPTION to have.

Edit: Cleared up foggy wording.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#1699 - 2014-05-01 19:47:58 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Joe Boirele wrote:
I'm not quite sure of this. I believe you can still use a marauder, even without bastion (though I admit I have no experience in marauders).

To be sure. You basically end up with a slightly less tanky version of the Faction equivalent, although it uses less ammunition, has better damage application and offers built-in salvage capabilities with substantial cargo space. It's a bit slower and less agile, but has increased warp speed for missioning. Bastion allows you to really expand damage application at the expense of running a very light tank, and is essentially a "get-out-of-jail-free" card if you take on too much aggro or get EW'd.

They're also pretty handy for Incursions with the utility highs. Except the Golem because missiles are incursion heresy, other than that though you fit them with cap xfers and armor/shield reps and your fleet is pretty well covered in case of logi DC or a Napoc gets into fleet.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#1700 - 2014-05-01 19:54:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
motie one wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


And I see we still aren't reading the dev blog.

They're getting a 43% speed buff.


Yay!


Yep. Heavies are getting the biggest bonus, but the other 2 sizes are getting some speed increase also.



kaarous? Genuine question, you are talking about speed getting a 43% buff, I am assuming you are referring to the MWD increase, but is it stated somewhere there is a bonus to the overall speed of the drones? I can't find it.
MWD bonuses will get them to the area quicker but would do nothing for their ability to hit targets. That is the major problem with Heavies, that they are lumbering beasties that are effectively almost useless unless you double web your target if it is smaller than a battlecruiser.

If it is overall speed and or tracking speed/range I will cheer too and give them a go again, if it is just a MWD improvement then they get to be useless sooner, not such a buff.


The dev blog does only mention MWD, yes.

My major issue with heavy drones has always been travel time, honestly. As far as them slugging it out with something small, they honestly still can't do that easily. As has been mentioned, orbit speed is the issue there.

But depending on the distance, in fact honestly not, sentries are the better option for firing at smaller targets. I simply don't throw out heavy drones against small targets. Even unbonused lights are a better choice if you have a target painter.

But that's the part where I'm also rather happy to have a missile bonus now. Even Rapid Heavies, with decent skills, a rig or two, and a target painter can lay down the pain against pretty much anything but an interceptor, or a Cynabal or something.

For that matter, if we aren't considering drone sniping, the Rattlesnake does have a spare highslot for a large neut, which makes the frigate issue fairly moot. (and if we're talking NPC frigates, the sentry drones take care of that reasonably well)

I had also considered that the Rattlesnake may be in a position to make good use of faction drones, since their expense can be abrogated by the increased resiliency of super drones.

Per the dev blog, faction drones will have better tracking and hitpoints than T2 drones, and are getting buffed in all other areas to be equal. So those may certainly be worth a look in regards to damage application.


If you fit your launchers primarily to kill smaller targets, you are doing it wrong.

frigates and cruisers can be easily cleaned up by +50% bonused drones.

Face it, the new Rattlesnake sucks.Stop being terrible at the game.






When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049