Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Huh? I see 710tf currently on every resource I can find, same as the op. Are you making the mistake of comparing your bonused stats with the unbonused stats posted in the thread or are my sources wrong?

There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding from the people who somehow think it is fine for the Rattlesnake to lose its bonus to light and medium drones.

Brawlers can quickly get overwhelmed as soon as a new wave of whatever comes in because they are usually in range on everything. The scrams and webs quickly go up and brawlers need those things that are scramming them to die quickly. With these proposed changes, the Rattlesnakes increased reliance on missiles creates significant vulnerabilities to e-war, and with weaker drones, this creates a significant weakness that the Rattlesnake never had before.

These are significant changes to the Rattlesnake and it should be no surprise that many people are very unhappy with them. The nerfs to the Rattlesnake seem even greater than the buffs when considering everything. It got the DPS it needed, albeit specialized, but the price it paid seems unnecessary. I don't see why this ship's role and battleship bonuses had to change at all. The current Snake doesn't seem like an unacceptable amount of overlap with Gallente when you consider how they are different. People trained for it because they like it. It was never considered OP. Why ruin their fun? The 400m3 drone bay was my reason. Now gone.

The new Snake has too many weaknesses now to play as a brawler when you could be flying something else. There will be less vulnerable and higher real dps ships for every occasion.

The ship does get much better performance from half the missiles, but you will lose some of that by fitting launchers from lower weight classes, especially if you are concerned about dealing with smaller ships. The flexibility to engage smaller targets efficiently normally enjoyed by drones has been moved to the launcher bonus, and using it will cost you.

At the same time, the superdrone bonus remains weak on the Rattlesnake, sacrificing flexibility and the resilience to ewar, yet still suffering the normal drawbacks to drones as well in the form of the lost fitting slot, generally lower DPS, and weapon destructibility. Unlike the other ships in the Gurista line the superdrone bonus takes more than it gives.

With the missile bonus being irrespective of size it may be a bad idea to bonus small drones and make the ship a tanky battleship with a role as a dedicated frigate hunter like some kind of bloated destroyer, but the superdrone concept should not take more than it gives the ship either. Breaking even isnt enough.

How i that different from a turret battleship that cannot use its bonuses with medium guns? The Drone ships have an ADVATNGE on being able to do that.

Its not that the rattle is being given a drawback. It is just losing one of its advantages (that I always considered utterly unfair on all drone boats)

The new Rattlesnake makes frigates and cruisers obsolete. Fozzie and Rise are going to have to start all over again, rebalancing T1 frigs and cruisers so that there's a reason to fly them instead of just launching the Rattlesnake's super-drones.

Hold on a second here. "without compensation"?

So, the fact that the drones you do have in space now have multiple times as many hitpoints, which makes them MUCH more difficult to destroy and thus eliminates one of the primary disadvantages and balancing factors of drones in the first place... is nothing?

They are functionally eliminating one of the major drone weaknesses, that it can be destroyed. So yeah it makes sense that they MUST NOT allow that to apply across the board. You are seriously underestimating just how useful all those bonus hitpoints are going to be.

Nevermind that they very nearly doubled the ship's weapon dps with the best possible dps bonus for missiles.

Why shouldn't the new Snake be a brawler, exactly?

Oh, and as for "they get less support than other weapon systems".

They're adding modules. They're buffing drones across the board. That Dev Blog HAS to be taken into account when we talk about these changes, they will be simultaneous.

Heck, for all*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. who hate the idea of putting missiles on their ship, they are adding lowslot drone tracking modules now, they will even have Amarr and Gallente Navy versions.



So it's entirely possible that the Heavy Superdrones will have no issues whatsoever tracking frigates.

The Rattlesnake is NOT losing versatility here, and people need to stop repeating that lie. The Rattlesnake is going to be absurdly versatile.

No, what I am saying is that for all you lot complaining that it isn't a pure droneboat? You guys trying to pretend like missiles aren't a thing, and that light drones actually matter... for some reason? Just slap one or two of those on there instead of BCUs and enjoy Heavy Drone dps with good tracking.

On sentries, probably even more overpowered.

It still has exactly the same max drone dps as it did before.

The Superdrone bonus on the Rattlesnake is weak.

Yes, the drones are more survivable, but not to the point that they will be hard to kill. They are hardly functionally losing their destructibility.

The Worm got drone power roughly 60% higher than any other frigate class droneship in exchange for the additional drawbacks inherant to the superdrone concept. Those drones are nearly as hard to destroy as the ship itself, making them a poor target unless you simply cannot catch the Worm. The Gila is harder to quantify as it could previously field large drones, but it also got a 60% advantage over all other medium drone users. By comparison, the Rattlesnake just breaks even.

This means, at best, that you only delay the impact of attacking a drone, as you get exactly the same return for the effort expended in destroying one as you would have without the bonus, the results just come in bigger chunks.

All of those ships also benefit from the improved missile damage bonus. The tougness of the drones comes at the cost of increased vunerability to Ewar and if it only breaks even on DPS and hitpoints it is overall a nerf to the system. The Superdrone concept is scaling poorly into Battleships-the bonus needs to be larger to compensate the drawback.

I am not saying it needs to have the smaller drones bonused as well, unless the bonus to heavies remains as it is. The ship is not losing the ability to engage small targets, but shifting that ability to launchers removes the on-the-fly situational fexability to do so.

Even with lowslot tracking mods for drones, they will still lack implants and boosters to improve them. The recent years have seen this disadvantage of drones greatly relaxed, but it still applies. It was never more than the least of the drawbacks in any case, paleing before damage, destructibility and the lost slot.