Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Faction battleship fleets don't work.

You cannot replace losses effectively and the market is far too easily manipulated.

Currently it has - 1 X flight Bouncer ll - 1 X flight garde ll - 1 X flight Valkyrie ll -1 X flight Hobgoblin ll - 2 X flight Warrior ll - 1 X flight ECM 300. All of which receive current bonuses.
The Valkyrie ll's and Hobgoblin ll's I could probably do with out, they see little use.
Although losing the damage bonus to lights, they may become a better option than the Warriors, as the warriors just may not be able to apply the damage to kill the frigates in some of the anoms.

You only need half the drones you had before. Heavy drones will still kill frigates and sentries will snipe them away easily enough. You can still have two flights of sentries and three flights of lights.

They kill them better than heavies

You know, this is a bit like folks complaining if the didnt let my Mach fit small guns, but buffed the crap out the big ones XoD

Well, it really is a bit silly.

They're "reduced" to using (3DDA's) "normal" light drones, like all other battleships. At a trade off giving it WAY more missile damage, a pair of far harder to kill uberdrones.

It's not like they're hard done by and if the bonused lights made or broke the boat, you're probably doing it wrong.

Drone boats have always been unique, as they are the only weapon system receives bonuses across all weapon sizes. (You can fit small guns on a Mach, they just don't get a bonus, not that you'd want to.)

Since drone boats have sufficient bay space to fit several flights of drones, that flexibility has always been taken for granted. In balance, of course, your drones are targetable, they have travel time, etc.

What's interesting is that on this new Rattler, it's the weapon system which received a bonus which operates independent of the weapon size.

I'd like to see how this all fits together once it's out on the test server. I think it will be balanced.

epicurus, how is that any different than if you had 5 regular bonused drones? Except these new ones don't die anywhere close to as quickly.

Well it is the morning, so i have a little patience left, probably after a couple of times repeating myself and banging my head against the wall I might give up for today so here goes.

Please pay attention. And try to read to the end before you jump on the most inconsequential part before leaping to completely wrong conclusions as to what is being said

The issue is that for both the Gila and the Rattlesnake in different ways, the drone weapon system is exactly that, an entire system with many checks and balances, plusses and minuses.-It has serious issues, and at some point will need a major rework.- but that is an aside.

Range of control and the fact that drones come in different sizes and abilities, and that these can be switched according to threat, are the pillars that support the system as a weapons platform.

The problem is the 2 main pillars have been disregarded whilst focusing on the new superdrone concept.
The superdrone concept has great potential to be a great addition to the game. But only if the smaller drones beneath the Superdrones are taken into account in the whole interplay of the system. And the battle-space these drones operate in and the control range applicable relates to the drones abilities.

But if you completely remove functionality and abilities of core components of the whole system, the balance is broken, and it will be impossible to know just how good they are,as one will be making continual comparisons with the other missing and changed elements.how can one compare the Gila and its use of wonderful bonused superdrones if you are struggling with losing 3.5 effective light drones and fighting to somehow stay alive.
When you change a core variable, you change only one at a time, or the data is meaningless.

There is also the issue that micromanagement of the lesser drones in the system is significantly more hands on, the unbonused drones (and fewer in the gila) are fragile and weaker, they need more effort to keep alive and are exposed to damage for longer as they do damage less quickly.
If it is necessary to use the MJD for range control then the MJD now takes one well out of drone control range adding to drone micromanagement. All of these issues are annoying an unpleasant rather than fatal, but is making the game more annoying a positive improvement?
This is over and above the more direct impacts that have been detailed en mass over dozens of pages, i know there is a lot to read but that is better than me typing pages for you now. Try to read, I will not do ALL the work for you!

So in short the rattlesnake has become a missile boat. With supporting drones. This is not the dual weapon system ship that we are used to. Whilst one can certainly adapt, the method of making the drones unpleasant to use, is a very poor way to introduce superdrones.

The Gila is severely hampered by the neglect of the entire drone weapon system, there are only 2 possible fits. T2 heavy missiles with precision missiles (if you have those skills) or rapid lights.

So the question is is it a good idea to rebalance a ship by neglecting the core concept of a weapons system being a system by ripping it out and just replacing part with a different mechanic. Or is it better to consider the whole system and doing it properly and not pissing off existing users and making it a pain for new ones?

I do not believe that is either deliberate or intended. The forums are here to give the Devs feedback, they are under considerable pressure to deliver changes, to a tight timescale, we NEED to point out issues when they are seen, to help them do their job for the BENEFIT OF ALL,

Aside from that the resolutions are remarkably simple.

Gila 100% bonus to damage and hitpoints for light drones. To keep approximately the same number of effective drones
Rattlesnake 50% bonus to damage and hitpoints for light and medium drones, keeps same number of effective drones
Rattlesnake either 25km to drone control range to keep same effective drone control range to prevent the new dead area, where drone damage will not be applied. Or drop the new launcher and add to the missile damage bonus,to keep it the same as originally suggested.

The idea is that the lesser drones are a valid part of the weapons system and deserve just as much attention if balance is to achieved, and that the whole battlespace needs to be considered in order not to create accidental deadspots that add nothing but annoyance to the game.

(If CCP Rise wanted to buff the ship some more, this could be also achieved by an additional high slot, his choice, naturally would effect the ability to fit other things too.) The other solutions would be just as effective without buffing anything.


NOTE:- NOWHERE IN THIS POST IS A REQUEST FOR A BUFF. (In capitals for the benefit of those who find it hard to read.)

The forum thread is so long because as in the case where one sees a nail on the floor, one can either pick it up and solve the problem, or argue incessantly for hours as to why it is not a problem and why it is too much effort to pick it up.

Until someone steps on it.

Seems that many still just want to argue and not actually deal with it.

I hope that finally you might understand other peoples issues, If not nothing anyone can write will persuade you.