Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Do we care?
We are trying to discuss the rebalance of the rattlesnake here, we are not discussing your dislike of drones.

The issues are relating to the way light drones have lost capability to deal with frigates on the Gila and rattlesnake, and with the effect of the method chosen to buff missile damage.

This relates to the overall capabilities of the ships and how they are rolled out.

This is not about your opinion of drones, and what we should expect from them.
We are trying to give CCP feedback on the changes and how we see the effect of them on the ships we fly,

There are no doubt threads on drone balance you can participate in, that is the place for them.

So can we please stay on topic?

He is on topic. What you are asking for is overpowered and i'd bet isk CCP won't do any of what you are asking for because of that.

I'm a lover of the Guristas ships, but all ships need downsides to be balanced. The balance here is "5 bonused launcers on a mid ranged killer or 4 bonused launchers and an extra DLA on a sniper". And the launchers (with appropriate ammo) + drones are all anyone needs to kill small ships.

I would like to think some care about logic, reason and a fair re-balance, do you?

Because it seems apparent that anybody who says differently from what your opinion is is a troll, going off-topic(lol) or not participating in the discussion in a manner of your liking and written off and blocked(lol)

I am also not here to discuss your assumption that I dislike drones (6 Million SP in Drones says I do btw) but to address the issue that it would not be wise to allow one ship to have so much power and handle so many different situations so efficiently with just a standard fit. This may rub you the wrong way however that's why we are here, to put our feedback on the table and let CCP sort it out.

Why are you quoting numbers that will be obsolete come the deployment of the changes being discussed. The RS is losing it's bonuses to light and medium drones. That number is wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Also, you seem to be missing the fact that the snake makes of for some vulnerabilities of drones by introducing others. I'm fine with the loss of a high slot. Some understandably aren't. But taking the RS and drone boats as a whole it isn't the prefect damage application that you seem to be insinuating, nor is the trade of drone number for HP a pure gain.

Yes my assumption on the post-patch numbers was incorrect however the point still stands...you will have means to swat off inty's and frigs with 5 lights boosted by 3 DDA's.

Which isn't a terribly unique ability nor will it likely play out as well as the term "swatting" would imply, else inty's would already be largely obsolete in any situation where a ship was present that had 25mb drone band.

I can see where the balance was struck here though, in trade for having much higher potential max DPS some specialized high application DPS was lost. Which is cool, I just had a bone to pick with the idea that 5 lights, bonussed or not reliably meant dead ceptors (it doesn't, and rightly so), and the inclusion of a bonus that would no longer exist when calculating effect.

Those aside we pretty much agree.

Can't you ******* retards do anything right? Rattlesnake is going to be worse than it was before now.

The sheer number of posts complaining about Guristas should tell you that your reluctant addition of sentries wasn't nearly enough to make your bad idea moderately acceptable. We spent a lot of time training these pirate faction battleships and now you are shitting all over us with major changes. **** you.

What role will the rattlesnake play now? Before the proposed change is was/is an awesome long range sniper.

By removing the size of the drone bay/bandwidth it is reduced to only a couple of sentry or heavy drones + it doesn't have the maneuverability to be a medium or up close brawler.

I do like the idea of the extra launcher though :)

Fair comments, i think however with these ships, they have focused on the big issue of the superdrones, expecting a reaction and preparing for it.
The problem is that drones are a weapons system, and accidentally they have not only changed the "headline" feature, they have missed the supporting pillars.

There is no practical way to add drone control range with any other mod than the drone link augmenter, rigs just do not work, horrid fitting cost for little gain, no one fits them since they corrected the stacking equation.

Lights are ones anti frigate weapon, there's no tracking bonus on the sentries,so you must either kill them with sentries at range or swap to lights.

The rattlesnake is less of a problem it is a lot tougher, there are ways around it, not ideal, but possible. More will be lost, but people can choose to fly it differently in different places. But is that a good thing if you want the ship to have wider appeal?

The Gila however really suffers, it loses 3.5 effective drones and all the hitpoint bonus to them. I am Not sure how that will survive now. That is a particular tragedy as it will be an amazing medium drone cruiser, possibly stratios and ishtar pilots will be quite envious, but only if they put the support of lights back in place.

The problem is that without the supporting pillars they will find it hard to convince people that the superdrone concept is good, I believe it is, and the Gila particularly will shine with mediums, if it can survive without lights.

This is the balance I am trying to achieve, workable,desireable ships that show off the new concept.

The missile damage bonus numbers are a good idea to let the rattlesnake be a valid choice of pirate ship, not just because it is half the price so worth trying if you can't afford a "real" one.

But if you have to destroy the survivabily and ability to test the superdrone concept, then you are better off not buffing the missiles, however without the buff, once again the ship will be just Meh.....

After spot checking it doesn't look like there are any inherent tracking buffs on the non-sentry drone front, so no difference there. We do still have the issue of drones turning off MWD's when they fire thus causing them to constantly play catchup, but that should be lessened quite a bit, 2.25km/s should still be nothing to disregard.