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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

First post First post First post
Author
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#661 - 2014-04-16 16:48:31 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think the SoE ships should get the Guristas drone bonuses and we should just make the Gursitas Pirate line missile-based and be done with it. As the only remaining drone-based ship, the Nestor might actually have some appeal.

The missile Pirate Race is in the works (Caldari+Minm)..

Ask me I think they should give the new Drone changes to the Rattlesnake and Co. to the SoE Line.. To the people that love em, it'll make the nester Viable, to the people that hate em, they would still have their Rattlesnake, one of the tried and true ships that really didn't need such a massive change, and limits its utility that I for one, love.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#662 - 2014-04-16 16:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Aralieus wrote:
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates?


Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here


The issue is with the GILA it has been said repeatedly that it is an annoyance in the rattler nothing more. Quite easily dealt with but
You naturally want to snipe frigates at range, the actual post as it is written is discussing the need to drop a DLA to fit the missile launcher, If you do that you naturally fit for missile damage not drone damage to get the maximum effect, therefore your drones are unbonused, and round and round and round..

So the post actually is asking for a 25km drone control range bonus for the ship, to replace the DLA that is lost fitting the new launcher, what you are replying to was a post that (deliberately?) took things out of context.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#663 - 2014-04-16 17:02:02 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
The missile Pirate Race is in the works (Caldari+Minm).

And you're basing this on...?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#664 - 2014-04-16 17:02:37 UTC
so since we all are theorycrafting about changes that will never see sisi here is my idea on gurista ships
we make them missle dps + drone optimal we change the tank bonus to smt like 100% launcher damage normal drone bay slots 5/7/7
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#665 - 2014-04-16 17:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think the SoE ships should get the Guristas drone bonuses and we should just make the Gursitas Pirate line missile-based and be done with it. As the only remaining drone-based ship, the Nestor might actually have some appeal.

It certainly would work on the stratios, that ship is like the gila, mobility is it's friend. Being stuck nursemaiding sentries is not a great idea in anything less tanky than a battleship.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#666 - 2014-04-16 17:04:00 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Actually Arthur, a good point, the beauty of this ship is that (assuming 25km drone range bonus) this new rattlesnake can be either a drone focused boat, or a primarily missile firing boat, with drone assist. Or a bit of both, The way we fit the damage mods makes it one or the other. Nice to have the choice.

I would honestly rather see a missile-hybrid than a missile-drone setup.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Ahernar
Perkone
Caldari State
#667 - 2014-04-16 17:05:32 UTC
Quote:

Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here


No problem , but can you imagine that we had 7.5 lights boosted by 3XDDA''s ?

I'm sure that we will use rigs for link range so in the end the tank or cap will suffer a little .

Ok , the gods should check their spreadsheets and make a decision .

Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#668 - 2014-04-16 17:06:50 UTC
These rebalances are effectively lacking imagination.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#669 - 2014-04-16 17:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
These rebalances are effectively lacking imagination.



You say that but I would far far more have the Gila with a covert ops cloak and the stratios bonuses than the stratios. Even though the stratios is so pretty and the gila is a gorilla carrying a suitcase. So they must be doing something right, and the rattlesnake if it does not get hobbled by losing a DLA is again really nice.
I do not fly the others, so not sure, but worm looks good too.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#670 - 2014-04-16 17:24:47 UTC
Ahernar wrote:
Quote:

Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here


No problem , but can you imagine that we had 7.5 lights boosted by 3XDDA''s ?

I'm sure that we will use rigs for link range so in the end the tank or cap will suffer a little .

Ok , the gods should check their spreadsheets and make a decision .


Rigs for link range only if you don't plan on applying your missile damage that well.
And rigs for missile application only if you don't plan on using your drones at range.
If only weapons had more than 1 module that affected their stats so you aren't forced to use rig slots.... Oh wait, everything except missiles does.
Sigras
Conglomo
#671 - 2014-04-16 17:26:50 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
In each case the bonus to Gurista ships states "bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage" without refering to heavy, heavy assault, etc.

Does this mean that each ship will have bonuses that apply to all missiles that do said damage?

To state more clearly, can we expect the damage bonus on the RS to also apply when firing thermal and kinetic missiles from RHML and RLML?


Yes, the damage bonus will apply to RHML and RLML.

I'm not sure if it helps settle anything but from my perspective the angel ships aren't necessarily meant to be armor or shield. They are capable of both and even though the ISIS says shields we are very happy with the versatility that Angel ships are capable of.

Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Cry

I think this bothers so many people because the mach is by far the best looking ship in the game, and the non symmetrical turret just takes away from that in a big way.

That said, this is how I would rebalance the mach to give it an even number of turrets:

MACHARIEL

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Battleship Bonus:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
37.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire (was 25%)
note: This ship has increased warp speed and warp acceleration


Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L; 6 turrets(-1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG(-1450), 575 CPU(-25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9320 / 9250 / 8260
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5800 / 1154000ms(-875) / 5.02
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .096(+.012) / 94680000 / 12.60(+1.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+13km) / 125(-25) / 7
Sensor strength: 26
Signature radius: 350(+10)

The mach looses 2/3 a turret of damage and a high slot but gains some fitting room in exchange making it easier to fit a full loadout.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#672 - 2014-04-16 17:34:00 UTC
Mach, best looking? Can't. Stop. Laughing.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#673 - 2014-04-16 17:38:09 UTC
Big smile
Mr Floydy wrote:
Mach, best looking? Can't. Stop. Laughing.

There's a lot worse looking Shocked

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#674 - 2014-04-16 17:38:31 UTC
Sigras wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
In each case the bonus to Gurista ships states "bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage" without refering to heavy, heavy assault, etc.

Does this mean that each ship will have bonuses that apply to all missiles that do said damage?

To state more clearly, can we expect the damage bonus on the RS to also apply when firing thermal and kinetic missiles from RHML and RLML?


Yes, the damage bonus will apply to RHML and RLML.

I'm not sure if it helps settle anything but from my perspective the angel ships aren't necessarily meant to be armor or shield. They are capable of both and even though the ISIS says shields we are very happy with the versatility that Angel ships are capable of.

Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Cry

I think this bothers so many people because the mach is by far the best looking ship in the game, and the non symmetrical turret just takes away from that in a big way.

That said, this is how I would rebalance the mach to give it an even number of turrets:

MACHARIEL

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Battleship Bonus:
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
37.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire (was 25%)
note: This ship has increased warp speed and warp acceleration


Slot layout: 7H(-1), 5M, 7L; 6 turrets(-1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG(-1450), 575 CPU(-25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 9320 / 9250 / 8260
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5800 / 1154000ms(-875) / 5.02
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 161 / .096(+.012) / 94680000 / 12.60(+1.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km(+13km) / 125(-25) / 7
Sensor strength: 26
Signature radius: 350(+10)

The mach looses 2/3 a turret of damage and a high slot but gains some fitting room in exchange making it easier to fit a full loadout.

arty mach would still be a pain to fit - qq arty powergrid Ugh
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#675 - 2014-04-16 17:55:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
The missile Pirate Race is in the works (Caldari+Minm).

And you're basing this on...?

CCP Devs said it in a few threads now. Don't expect it for the summer, might be next winter like SOE was, but it is coming.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#676 - 2014-04-16 17:59:26 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
The missile Pirate Race is in the works (Caldari+Minm).

And you're basing this on...?

CCP Devs said it in a few threads now. Don't expect it for the summer, might be next winter like SOE was, but it is coming.


pretty sure they weren't saying yes for sure. sucks that they arsed up on armour + drone faction.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#677 - 2014-04-16 18:04:21 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Aralieus wrote:
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates?


Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here


The issue is with the GILA it has been said repeatedly that it is an annoyance in the rattler nothing more. Quite easily dealt with but
You naturally want to snipe frigates at range, the actual post as it is written is discussing the need to drop a DLA to fit the missile launcher, If you do that you naturally fit for missile damage not drone damage to get the maximum effect, therefore your drones are unbonused, and round and round and round..

So the post actually is asking for a 25km drone control range bonus for the ship, to replace the DLA that is lost fitting the new launcher, what you are replying to was a post that (deliberately?) took things out of context.


6 low slots gives 3 BCU and 3 DDA or 3 and 2 plus a damage control. What else do you want to put in your lows?
Also my point with triangles earlier was that if you have ships 20km away your MJD doesn't have to take you 120 or 80 km away

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#678 - 2014-04-16 18:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Op+Falloff on T2 Bouncers is > 90km before skills. So half of the sentries can reach past the 85km allowed by a single T2 DLA.

With V skills a Curator is 52.5km/24km, Garde is 30km/12km and the Bouncer is 60km/24km - all of which fall under the 84km effective range with a single T2 DLA. Granted, this is before omni modules - but you won't be hitting anywhere the previous Rattlesnake distances with missiles, either. Dropping a launcher or utilizing rigs aren't attractive options, and neither is trading another mid or low slot to gain another utility high (especially since drone damage is now secondary). In fact, with the passive drone modules being released in the summer expansion you'll probably want every low slot for drone and ballistic modules. I guess a Black Eagle DLA gets you another +4km - but that's not really practical outside of high-sec PvE.

With such a huge damage buff, I'm pretty sure Rattlesnake owners can adapt...


Arthur, the reason Is MJD. Waiting and waiting before your drones can fire, is just a pain in the ass, you have gained DPS with one hand and lost more with the other.....
Now 85 k? At last now you pull some back.

It really needs a 25km drone control range bonus, an extra high or keep the same number of launchers and increase the missile damage bonus, any would work. After all it is now a missile boat as well as a drone boat the old argument that drone boats need 1 (well 2 in this case) less slot no longer applies.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#679 - 2014-04-16 18:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Silvetica Dian wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Aralieus wrote:
Morukk Nuamzzar wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

So what are you saying, that 5 unbonused light drones are suddenly unable to deal with a few frigates?


Not only will you be able to field a full flight of lights but lights that are boosted by 3x DDA's. I dont really see a problem here


The issue is with the GILA it has been said repeatedly that it is an annoyance in the rattler nothing more. Quite easily dealt with but
You naturally want to snipe frigates at range, the actual post as it is written is discussing the need to drop a DLA to fit the missile launcher, If you do that you naturally fit for missile damage not drone damage to get the maximum effect, therefore your drones are unbonused, and round and round and round..

So the post actually is asking for a 25km drone control range bonus for the ship, to replace the DLA that is lost fitting the new launcher, what you are replying to was a post that (deliberately?) took things out of context.


6 low slots gives 3 BCU and 3 DDA or 3 and 2 plus a damage control. What else do you want to put in your lows?
Also my point with triangles earlier was that if you have ships 20km away your MJD doesn't have to take you 120 or 80 km away


Note:- rattlesnake is often passive tanked so shield recharge modules. (Shield power relay)

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#680 - 2014-04-16 18:26:23 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Note:- rattlesnake is often passive tanked so shield recharge modules. (Shield power relay)


lol