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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#601 - 2014-04-16 12:56:22 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I didn't say serious, I said significant. It wouldn't just be a damage increase. It would be a heavier importance placed on a required skill, changes to fitting balance, changes in ammo consumption, change in fitting cost, potential effects on damage output and/or alpha. It's not unsolvable or something, it's just a lot of things that need to be accounted for and we don't think it's worth it in this case.


Oh come on, live a little. What's a balance change without one slightly OP ship?

Besides, you nerfed it a little and it's new role bonus is only moderately useful. Let it live a little with 6 turrets, adjusted damage bonus to the same DPS, 2 utilities and call it a day.


If one OP slightly OP ship is not a problem then one slightly UP one won't be either right?

Just cut one turret and only compensate for 80% of the dmg lost to also cover for lower ammo usage and lower fitting cost. Little OP, little UP, whats the difference right?
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#602 - 2014-04-16 13:18:04 UTC
Look like some good changes. No complaints here.

(cept for the slot differences maybe, but on a vindi it wouldn't matter cause you need 8 guns. Mach gets that extra utility high...kind of annoying that it gets the extra slot)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#603 - 2014-04-16 13:22:42 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
In each case the bonus to Gurista ships states "bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage" without refering to heavy, heavy assault, etc.

Does this mean that each ship will have bonuses that apply to all missiles that do said damage?

To state more clearly, can we expect the damage bonus on the RS to also apply when firing thermal and kinetic missiles from RHML and RLML?


Yes, the damage bonus will apply to RHML and RLML.

I'm not sure if it helps settle anything but from my perspective the angel ships aren't necessarily meant to be armor or shield. They are capable of both and even though the ISIS says shields we are very happy with the versatility that Angel ships are capable of.

Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Cry


how weird cos i pointed out that the ISIS had the armour icon on the angel ships and Ytterbium said that it wasn't supposed to be there and that he would remove it which he duly did....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#604 - 2014-04-16 13:24:08 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
In each case the bonus to Gurista ships states "bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage" without refering to heavy, heavy assault, etc.

Does this mean that each ship will have bonuses that apply to all missiles that do said damage?

To state more clearly, can we expect the damage bonus on the RS to also apply when firing thermal and kinetic missiles from RHML and RLML?


Yes, the damage bonus will apply to RHML and RLML.

I'm not sure if it helps settle anything but from my perspective the angel ships aren't necessarily meant to be armor or shield. They are capable of both and even though the ISIS says shields we are very happy with the versatility that Angel ships are capable of.

Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Cry


Could always make whatever is in its last high slot show up as a different turret (yes, I mean making a model for neuts or something along those lines.)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#605 - 2014-04-16 13:25:16 UTC
NM looks good.

Bhaalgorn a bit to strong, then again solo BS is dead anyway.

Vindicator could use a bit more cap for free roaming with active tank.

Rattlesnake should have a extra spare high slot and 2 turret slots, it is one of the main features I miss compared to my fleet phoon. Give it a bit more speed(105-110 base at least), if you want to see it in pvp(and yes it got potential). Also same as on the gila a 2. lower bonus for light drones, for frig defence. 5 light drones with out a bonus are just embarrassing on a drone BS.

Mach, leave the scan resolution alone, it needs quick lock for alpha setups and kitting to get rid of tacklers. A bit more cap would be also nice as well as a extra 500-700 power grid would be most welcome for artillery fittings.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#606 - 2014-04-16 13:37:23 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I didn't say serious, I said significant. It wouldn't just be a damage increase. It would be a heavier importance placed on a required skill, changes to fitting balance, changes in ammo consumption, change in fitting cost, potential effects on damage output and/or alpha. It's not unsolvable or something, it's just a lot of things that need to be accounted for and we don't think it's worth it in this case.


Oh come on, live a little. What's a balance change without one slightly OP ship?

Besides, you nerfed it a little and it's new role bonus is only moderately useful. Let it live a little with 6 turrets, adjusted damage bonus to the same DPS, 2 utilities and call it a day.


If one OP slightly OP ship is not a problem then one slightly UP one won't be either right?

Just cut one turret and only compensate for 80% of the dmg lost to also cover for lower ammo usage and lower fitting cost. Little OP, little UP, whats the difference right?


Sure, slightly UP is fine too.

But if I'm going to pick one, I'd go with OP. :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#607 - 2014-04-16 14:02:00 UTC
Cut a turret/high, add role bonus of 17 percent damage? Rof stays the same, volley stays the same. You save a tiny amount of ammo and a few mil on a gun.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#608 - 2014-04-16 14:10:08 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?



Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill.
It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

It can work, sort of, but is that the plan?


No man. If you are afraid of small/medium enemies and you are clever you put RLMLs or RHMLs on the Rattlesnake.
You will find that with 7.5 effective launchers, the Rattlesnake will be one of the most powerful platforms (DPSwise) in the game for LIGHT MISSILES with a resistance bonussed battleship tank (omgwtflol?!?).
So you get like ~500 DPS from your drones vs. big targets while absolutely shredding the smaller ones at the same time.
I think both mission runners and PvPers alike will just love this unique design.

Oh and instead of a drone link augmentor think of a RR module. Should be manageable to keep your +275% HP Ogres alive in a brawl.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#609 - 2014-04-16 14:14:09 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Cut a turret/high, add role bonus of 17 percent damage? Rof stays the same, volley stays the same. You save a tiny amount of ammo and a few mil on a gun.


And change fittings since you freed a **** ton of PWG/CPU by not having to install a 7th gun.

Or you can leave it at 7 turrets because it just works...
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#610 - 2014-04-16 14:16:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
CCP Rise wrote:

Speaking of Angel ships, I looked into making the Mach turrets symmetrical and unfortunately it isn't going to happen. It would be almost impossible to avoid having a significant impact on balance for the ship and we don't feel that an aesthetic concern like this justifies making a change. Sorry Cry


I'm not even mad. Honestly if the rest of the BS line didn't all look so solid I would never have brought it up. Like I said elsewhere in the thread, you have enough to deal with these Rattlesnake people to give people like me a little symmetry just for kicks and giggles.

Edit: http://i.imgur.com/veeB63v.jpg (from CCP's Trailer for Rubicon)
...Just sayin :wink:

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#611 - 2014-04-16 14:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Edward Olmops wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?



Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill.
It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

It can work, sort of, but is that the plan?


No man. If you are afraid of small/medium enemies and you are clever you put RLMLs or RHMLs on the Rattlesnake.
You will find that with 7.5 effective launchers, the Rattlesnake will be one of the most powerful platforms (DPSwise) in the game for LIGHT MISSILES with a resistance bonussed battleship tank (omgwtflol?!?).
So you get like ~500 DPS from your drones vs. big targets while absolutely shredding the smaller ones at the same time.
I think both mission runners and PvPers alike will just love this unique design.

Oh and instead of a drone link augmentor think of a RR module. Should be manageable to keep your +275% HP Ogres alive in a brawl.


I agree there are lots of fitting choices, yes rhml, will fit, but really, a rattlesnake is not the ideal vehicle for the role you suggest. If you give up a high, you give up the bonus, you give up the gains, you put missiles in the highs, you lose the drone abilities. Applying damage is what matters, and you cannot fit missile and drone damage maximum mods at the same time, so mixing super powerful heavy rapid missiles with great application, with super damage drones with great application just ain't gonna happen.


Yes I am all for choices, but however you mix this up, you are not getting the buff this ship desperately needs at the moment to match the other pirate cruisers, yes any ship can be made into an Omg frig/dessie destructor, but what then? Just another comedy killmail.

What I am suggesting is to add 25km range bonus to drone control range, to allow the missile bonuses to make the ship benefit from the buff to missiles without making drones unusable at current ranges. in exchange we accept the recent rebalancing of omnidirectional tracking links and dropping from 7.5 to 5 effective medium and light drones.

I think that is more reasonable? No?Cool

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#612 - 2014-04-16 14:22:21 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
[quote=CCP Rise]
Like I said elsewhere in the thread, you have enough to deal with these Rattlesnake people to give people like me a little symmetry just for kicks and giggles.

I don't see him dealing with Rattlesnake people.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#613 - 2014-04-16 14:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Edward Olmops wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?



Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill.
It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

It can work, sort of, but is that the plan?


No man. If you are afraid of small/medium enemies and you are clever you put RLMLs or RHMLs on the Rattlesnake.
You will find that with 7.5 effective launchers, the Rattlesnake will be one of the most powerful platforms (DPSwise) in the game for LIGHT MISSILES with a resistance bonussed battleship tank (omgwtflol?!?).
So you get like ~500 DPS from your drones vs. big targets while absolutely shredding the smaller ones at the same time.
I think both mission runners and PvPers alike will just love this unique design.

Oh and instead of a drone link augmentor think of a RR module. Should be manageable to keep your +275% HP Ogres alive in a brawl.



+1

And no offense intended to others, but too many people are too orthodox and uncreative to see the massive new possibilities the Guristas ships have Like Edward Olmops can.

Like for instance in null sec I'm thinking I'm going to try a Rattlesnake with it's new tougher drones, a couple cheap small deadspace remote reps (1 for each drone) with 4 large faction smartbombs for anoms/ratting.

Because now I can sit on top of my drones and lightly rep them while i sit on the spawn point of a forsaken hub or pirate gate haven and let the isks roll in lol. And the smart bombs help tank because they pop npc missiles. Will probably throw in a Cetus (best named) ECM burst in a mid to hold aggro on the ship instead of the drones (which i will be smart bombing so extra aggro = bad lol).

If i were brave (and rich) I'd anchor a small bubble slightly behind my ship in the direction of the gate so that any interceptors that warp in land on me and thus my smartbombs and ECM burst LOL (and the WTFs in local would be epic till the next smart bomb cycle pods him). I could always just MJD out if too many came in at once.


Thinking outside the box is fun. Some of you guys should try it. Twisted
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#614 - 2014-04-16 14:30:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Edward Olmops wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?



Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill.
It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

It can work, sort of, but is that the plan?


No man. If you are afraid of small/medium enemies and you are clever you put RLMLs or RHMLs on the Rattlesnake.
You will find that with 7.5 effective launchers, the Rattlesnake will be one of the most powerful platforms (DPSwise) in the game for LIGHT MISSILES with a resistance bonussed battleship tank (omgwtflol?!?).
So you get like ~500 DPS from your drones vs. big targets while absolutely shredding the smaller ones at the same time.
I think both mission runners and PvPers alike will just love this unique design.

Oh and instead of a drone link augmentor think of a RR module. Should be manageable to keep your +275% HP Ogres alive in a brawl.



+1

And no offense intended to others, but too many people are too orthodox and uncreative to see the massive new possibilities the Guristas ships have Like Edward Olmops can.

Like for instance in null sec I'm thinking I'm going to try a Rattlesnake with it's new tougher drones, a couple cheap small deadspace remote reps (1 for each drone) with 4 large faction smartbombs for anoms/ratting.

Because now I can sit on top of my drones and lightly rep them while i sit on the spawn point of a forsaken hub or pirate gate haven and let the isks roll in lol. And the smart bombs help tank because they pop npc missiles. Will probably throw in a Cetus (best named) ECM burst in a mid to hold aggro on the ship instead of the drones (which i will be smart bombing so extra aggro = bad lol).

If i were brave (and rich) I'd anchor a small bubble slightly behind my ship in the direction of the gate so that any interceptors that warp in land on me and thus my smartbombs and ECM burst LOL (and the WTFs in local would be epic till the next smart bomb cycle pods him). I could always just MJD out if too many came in at once.


Thinking outside the box is fun. Some of you guys should try it.


Sounds like an interesting plan. Except the part where your bubble was going to catch interceptors :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#615 - 2014-04-16 14:34:03 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Edward Olmops wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?



Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill.
It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

It can work, sort of, but is that the plan?


No man. If you are afraid of small/medium enemies and you are clever you put RLMLs or RHMLs on the Rattlesnake.
You will find that with 7.5 effective launchers, the Rattlesnake will be one of the most powerful platforms (DPSwise) in the game for LIGHT MISSILES with a resistance bonussed battleship tank (omgwtflol?!?).
So you get like ~500 DPS from your drones vs. big targets while absolutely shredding the smaller ones at the same time.
I think both mission runners and PvPers alike will just love this unique design.

Oh and instead of a drone link augmentor think of a RR module. Should be manageable to keep your +275% HP Ogres alive in a brawl.



+1

And no offense intended to others, but too many people are too orthodox and uncreative to see the massive new possibilities the Guristas ships have Like Edward Olmops can.

Like for instance in null sec I'm thinking I'm going to try a Rattlesnake with it's new tougher drones, a couple cheap small deadspace remote reps (1 for each drone) with 4 large faction smartbombs for anoms/ratting.

Because now I can sit on top of my drones and lightly rep them while i sit on the spawn point of a forsaken hub or pirate gate haven and let the isks roll in lol. And the smart bombs help tank because they pop npc missiles. Will probably throw in a Cetus (best named) ECM burst in a mid to hold aggro on the ship instead of the drones (which i will be smart bombing so extra aggro = bad lol).

If i were brave (and rich) I'd anchor a small bubble slightly behind my ship in the direction of the gate so that any interceptors that warp in land on me and thus my smartbombs and ECM burst LOL (and the WTFs in local would be epic till the next smart bomb cycle pods him). I could always just MJD out if too many came in at once.


Thinking outside the box is fun. Some of you guys should try it.


Sounds like an interesting plan. Except the part where your bubble was going to catch interceptors :)


The ideas are fun if flawed, yes there will be lots of new and exciting ways to use these ships, i approve of that entirely, I have praised CCP rise for the courage to adopt the concept of super drones, it is an excellent direction, we need to keep the ships useful though outside of these niche examples though, encourage them yes, but not let a ship like the rattlesnake be dependant on them.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#616 - 2014-04-16 14:36:12 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Edward Olmops wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Dan Rae wrote:
Rattlesnake changes dont make any sense? Massive buff to sentries and heavies, except the RS can no longer field a flight of either? What's up with that?



Rattlesnake full flight is now 2 superdrones, the damage is the same as before and much much tougher to kill.
It gets an extra launcher in exchange for losing up to 25km off your drone control range (launcher takes the place of a drone link augmentor) and a missile damage bonus too! Frigates are an issue as Lights and mediums are unbonused so you best kill them at range, quickly.

But apparently, if nothing changes it is a medium range cruise missile sentry boat?Shocked

So Mjd would be needed purely for escape i guess. As if a few frigates gets through you are pretty borked otherwise.

It can work, sort of, but is that the plan?


No man. If you are afraid of small/medium enemies and you are clever you put RLMLs or RHMLs on the Rattlesnake.
You will find that with 7.5 effective launchers, the Rattlesnake will be one of the most powerful platforms (DPSwise) in the game for LIGHT MISSILES with a resistance bonussed battleship tank (omgwtflol?!?).
So you get like ~500 DPS from your drones vs. big targets while absolutely shredding the smaller ones at the same time.
I think both mission runners and PvPers alike will just love this unique design.

Oh and instead of a drone link augmentor think of a RR module. Should be manageable to keep your +275% HP Ogres alive in a brawl.



+1

And no offense intended to others, but too many people are too orthodox and uncreative to see the massive new possibilities the Guristas ships have Like Edward Olmops can.

Like for instance in null sec I'm thinking I'm going to try a Rattlesnake with it's new tougher drones, a couple cheap small deadspace remote reps (1 for each drone) with 4 large faction smartbombs for anoms/ratting.

Because now I can sit on top of my drones and lightly rep them while i sit on the spawn point of a forsaken hub or pirate gate haven and let the isks roll in lol. And the smart bombs help tank because they pop npc missiles. Will probably throw in a Cetus (best named) ECM burst in a mid to hold aggro on the ship instead of the drones (which i will be smart bombing so extra aggro = bad lol).

If i were brave (and rich) I'd anchor a small bubble slightly behind my ship in the direction of the gate so that any interceptors that warp in land on me and thus my smartbombs and ECM burst LOL (and the WTFs in local would be epic till the next smart bomb cycle pods him). I could always just MJD out if too many came in at once.


Thinking outside the box is fun. Some of you guys should try it.


Sounds like an interesting plan. Except the part where your bubble was going to catch interceptors :)


I meant coverts (that can light covert cynos), I don't worry about ceptors anymore, I just run away.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#617 - 2014-04-16 14:42:34 UTC
I don't think being a drone battleship or cruiser should entitle you to frigate-immunity
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#618 - 2014-04-16 14:42:50 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Yes I am all for choices, but however you mix this up, you are not getting the buff this ship desperately needs at the moment to match the other pirate cruisers, yes any ship can be made into an Omg frig/dessie destructor, but what then? Just another comedy killmail.

6 launchers would do the trick...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#619 - 2014-04-16 14:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
I don't want my previous reply sound like a criticism of new ideas, yes I agree there are new roles possible here to make an awesome ship using rapid launchers or even very close range torpedoes. One can choose ballistic controls or drone damage mods to vary damage dealt, great idea.

My current concern is that the rattlesnake has been passed over by players as it does not have enough "special" about it currently to match other, better ships.

The bonus to missiles, lifts it into the next level where it is an equal if different ship to the other pirate vessels.

However, there is an issue here, where the loss of the 25km drone range and loss of 2.5 effective light and medium drones , drops it back down again.

The light and medium drone issue, simply is only an annoyance, if the effective drone range is restored.

So very simply I applaud the options made possible by the new rattlesnake, but losing 25km of the drone range makes it effectively no better than the current rattlesnake, just different.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#620 - 2014-04-16 14:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Yes I am all for choices, but however you mix this up, you are not getting the buff this ship desperately needs at the moment to match the other pirate cruisers, yes any ship can be made into an Omg frig/dessie destructor, but what then? Just another comedy killmail.

6 launchers would do the trick...


Yes, yes it would too. And i know how much you love symmetry Big smile

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE