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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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marVLs
#501 - 2014-04-15 14:08:29 UTC
Are there eft files for summer changes?
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#502 - 2014-04-15 14:17:01 UTC
Frayze Nissai wrote:

You have heard of a module called the Mobile Depot yes? The one that allows you to change modules AND DRONES whilst in space? Or are you arguing that you would use your salvage drones whilst still engaged?

I also fly an RS, i also chose it for its versatility. Do i feel screwed over by these new changes? Hell no, i have never been happier. I can now focus more on what is going on around me than on my 5 little guys HP bars, i can do significantlymore DPS, and with the mobile depot i keep a very high degree of versatility.

'I picked a ship with a large drone bay' - yes, one that at the time had a justifiably large bay as it needed to field 5 sentry drones (read 125 m3 of space) to put down maximum DPS. We now need to field 2 sentries (or 50m3) to do EXACTLY the same. So please, justify how we should keep a 400m3 drone bay???


As much as I agree that the 175 m3 bay is fine, using the Mobile Depot should not be used as a crutch for balancing a ship.

The argument "The ship is fine because you can use Mobile Depot" is a bad one. It takes 60 seconds to activate, or are you seriously going to plop one down for every pocket you warp into, then hope you don't need to move or you don't get bumped away from it?

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#503 - 2014-04-15 14:25:22 UTC
Cheekything wrote:
I still think the Vindicator needs some separation from the Megathron Navy Issue in terms of roles they both seem to fit the same job but the Navy Mega at the current moment does it a bit better.

But it's nice to see the range has been made better that helps it being more useful for PVP and not just PVE.

Maybe increase the range a bit for for sniping.


ok then we will just nerf the megathron.

cuz the way things are going ccp wont change OP ships and nerf everything else that has serp bonus's.

give blasters more range wee
give blasters OP damage bonus
give 90% webs to blasters never miss
and give it tons of mids and lows for optimal fitting

cruor stepping on toes because it can kill a daredevil? nerf the cruor, take away its 90% web make it ****
ashimmu stepping on vigilants toes? nerf the ashimmu take away its 90% web that outta fix things o and nerf its power grid too.
bhaal? we wont touch that people love the bhaalgorn! people love the vindicator they keep us the most subs!

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#504 - 2014-04-15 14:29:40 UTC
I think the changes are ok. As Kubiq said "sweet."


Can we make the RS the raven hull? I'll sub for life. The scorpion just looks so bad to me. Silly nitpick I know. Also <3 Rise
Frayze Nissai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#505 - 2014-04-15 14:30:18 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
Frayze Nissai wrote:

You have heard of a module called the Mobile Depot yes? The one that allows you to change modules AND DRONES whilst in space? Or are you arguing that you would use your salvage drones whilst still engaged?

I also fly an RS, i also chose it for its versatility. Do i feel screwed over by these new changes? Hell no, i have never been happier. I can now focus more on what is going on around me than on my 5 little guys HP bars, i can do significantlymore DPS, and with the mobile depot i keep a very high degree of versatility.

'I picked a ship with a large drone bay' - yes, one that at the time had a justifiably large bay as it needed to field 5 sentry drones (read 125 m3 of space) to put down maximum DPS. We now need to field 2 sentries (or 50m3) to do EXACTLY the same. So please, justify how we should keep a 400m3 drone bay???


As much as I agree that the 175 m3 bay is fine, using the Mobile Depot should not be used as a crutch for balancing a ship.

The argument "The ship is fine because you can use Mobile Depot" is a bad one. It takes 60 seconds to activate, or are you seriously going to plop one down for every pocket you warp into, then hope you don't need to move or you don't get bumped away from it?

I completely agree with you, i was attempting to show the stupidity of a post saying 'QQ, my ships rebalance is broken as i cant fit in salvage drones.'

The RS now has sentries that have an incredibly high number of HP, this, coupled with the fact that you now only have to pay attention to 2 of the thing, means it is a LOT less likely you are going to lose any, so sure, carry spares, but you are lot less likely to need them. Myself? Yeah, i will carry spare sentries...in my hold along with my MD. That room i just saved? guess i could fit a full flight of salvage drones in that space....

This is my signature. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#506 - 2014-04-15 14:35:36 UTC
Damn, I think I will just take my not-nerfed Mach and go home with it.

Don't worry about us turret asymmetry guys, you have enough to deal with in the Rattlesnake people it seems.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Callic Veratar
#507 - 2014-04-15 14:49:17 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:

700 cruise dps before any BCS's or drones. dream on lol


Maybe replace the ROF bonus with a 25% explosion radius bonus, but the overall point still stands.

As much as I LOVE the new Rattle (compared to it's current form) I would LOVE LOVE LOVE it to be an 8 launcher 1500+ missile dps boat. (Think vindi, but with missiles and shield tanked)


Like the last time this was suggested, I think a better option that stealing from what the Guristas ships will become would be to add a new line of pirate ships that are designed to run with 8 missiles (possibly specifically Rockets/HAMs/Torpedos) with other endemic side effects meaning it won't immediately destroy everything.

I'm thinking a Caldari/Minmatar (Mordu's Legion?) based on the Kestrel/Caracal/Raven each with way too many missile hard points and not much else.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#508 - 2014-04-15 15:04:38 UTC
So you want eight-launcher shield-tanked missile boats with precision bonuses?

Well, it's your lucky day!
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#509 - 2014-04-15 15:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Last Wolf
Gypsio III wrote:
So you want eight-launcher shield-tanked missile boats with precision bonuses?

Well, it's your lucky day!



We have an 8-turret armor tanked hybrid boat with tracking bonus (and 90% web). Your point?

Never mind, you're talking about the Raven Navy Issue.

Where it its damage bonus? Fleet Issue Typhoon does more missile DPS than the Raven, and with heavy/sentry dronese to boot! (and with 2 ROF bonused Arties!)

My point is there is currently no Pirate boat used for pure missile damage.

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#510 - 2014-04-15 15:27:43 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Large Energy Turret Damage
note: Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level


I think given the amount of vamps a bhaal can fit, this might be overpowered (much more so than the ashimuu/cruor - and probably means that in reality the ashimuu will rarely be used).
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#511 - 2014-04-15 15:42:46 UTC
Last Wolf wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
So you want eight-launcher shield-tanked missile boats with precision bonuses?

Well, it's your lucky day!



We have an 8-turret armor tanked hybrid boat with tracking bonus (and 90% web). Your point?

Never mind, you're talking about the Raven Navy Issue.

Where it its damage bonus? Fleet Issue Typhoon does more missile DPS than the Raven, and with heavy/sentry dronese to boot! (and with 2 ROF bonused Arties!)

My point is there is currently no Pirate boat used for pure missile damage.


The "pirate" thing is simply a label.

You said you wanted a precision bonus, so use the CN ships. If you actually want raw damage instead, use the fleetphoon.

What on earth would be the point of the current CN ships if your pirate faction got introduced? Pointless duplication of existing ships.
Morukk Nuamzzar
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#512 - 2014-04-15 15:43:51 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:

I think given the amount of vamps a bhaal can fit, this might be overpowered (much more so than the ashimuu/cruor - and probably means that in reality the ashimuu will rarely be used).

So what if it's overpowered? Some ships should be stronger and better than others. Balancing is overrated.
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
#513 - 2014-04-15 15:44:34 UTC
So I guess they should delete Navy Mega and Fleet Tempest?

That awkward moment at the Gentlemen's Club when you see your sister on the stage....and you're not sure where to put the money....
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#514 - 2014-04-15 16:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
i will not read the entire topic lest it eats my brain and entrails. the changes overall are pretty nice, but there are a few minor things i would like to criticize:
- the machariel warp speed buff is a little too strong given its excellent performance even without it. i would propose lowering the warp speed bonus to the base line of marauders or lowering the dps to roughly the level of the vargur.

- i agree with the criticism of role bonuses versus battleship skill bonuses. it's kind of silly that a paladin with Marauders IV deals less dps than a nightmare with Caldari and Gallente Battleship I (disregarding the range bonuses ofc.). in my opinion there is nothing wrong with splitting the bonuses into one basic part and one scaling part and have the hulls get three or even four scaling bonuses total.

- come on, fix the asymmetries in the mach hull already. i'm sick and tired of asking myself why it has the vestigial propulsion engine on one side and not the other, and the seven turret slots do not help.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#515 - 2014-04-15 16:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Daniel Plain wrote:
i will not read the entire topic lest it eats my brain and entrails. the changes overall are pretty nice, but there are a few minor things i would like to criticize:
- the machariel warp speed buff is a little too strong given its excellent performance even without it. i would propose lowering the warp speed bonus to the base line of marauders or lowering the dps to roughly the level of the vargur.

- come on, fix the asymmetries in the mach hull already. i'm sick and tired of asking myself why it has the vestigial propulsion engine on one side and not the other, and the seven turret slots do not help.


1. Removing the one themed role bonus from the Mach, the one we all lobbied to get, is a terrible idea. And you are the only one I have seen say it is in any way OP. Most seem to feel it is not enough. Personally, I think it will be much stronger than it seems on paper and will most certainly add to the existing flavor of the Angel Cartel ship line.

2.Changing DPS is bad for so many reasons.

3.No, canceling the warps will not increase the agility. good ninja edit.

4. The ship model is fine and attractive and mean looking. If anything it is an example of how all ships should look. The asymmetry in the turret hardpoints is mildly irritating but hardly deal-breaking or T_T worthy.

As I said in the post above, I mentioned the asymmetry in the beginning as a 'why not' suggestion but considering the amount of craziness that has followed that suggestion I think it is best we just take our ship and go home while Rise deals with these Rattlesnake people.

Even though in the ghost site video they had 8 turrets, even though it should be an easy fix (hint it doesn't look like it is going to be), it is hardly worth the pages of posts regarding it, changing the entire ship with slot movement like +1 mid, Or even just dropping to 7 highs and folding it into the ROF bonus. (shadow nerfs artillery fits), or folding it into the damage bonus (shadow buffs damage slightly). Hell, even changing the role and skill bonuses around...

Are all far to much just to get the prettiest ship in the game a little bit prettier

I will still wish that the empty slot is on the same side as the big cylinder on top to at least give it asymmetrical balance. ...but only when ship spinning.

And never ever when I am cycling my XLSB, managing range and dunking hardcore on things only to moonwalk out at 3AU/sec

Rise has enough to deal with in the Rattlesnake people to stress-test every possible combination of minor changes that make the Machariel potentially symmetrical. Though I would not turn my nose up at any of them ofc.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Garak n00biachi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#516 - 2014-04-15 16:33:25 UTC
That Mach buff makes no sense at all....this dev fell for the powercreep trap like many developers have fallen to it before him.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#517 - 2014-04-15 16:38:05 UTC
Garak n00biachi wrote:
That Mach buff makes no sense at all....this dev fell for the powercreep trap like many developers have fallen to it before him.


You mean making it exactly the same as it was pre-rubicon ?

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#518 - 2014-04-15 17:00:56 UTC
What's the logic behind three 19-slot ships and two 20-slot ships?
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#519 - 2014-04-15 17:11:04 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
i will not read the entire topic lest it eats my brain and entrails. the changes overall are pretty nice, but there are a few minor things i would like to criticize:
- the machariel warp speed buff is a little too strong given its excellent performance even without it. i would propose lowering the warp speed bonus to the base line of marauders or lowering the dps to roughly the level of the vargur.

- i agree with the criticism of role bonuses versus battleship skill bonuses. it's kind of silly that a paladin with Marauders IV deals less dps than a nightmare with Caldari and Gallente Battleship I (disregarding the range bonuses ofc.). in my opinion there is nothing wrong with splitting the bonuses into one basic part and one scaling part and have the hulls get three or even four scaling bonuses total.

- come on, fix the asymmetries in the mach hull already. i'm sick and tired of asking myself why it has the vestigial propulsion engine on one side and not the other, and the seven turret slots do not help.

Concerning the comments on the mach, I think they might make the decision between mach/vargur more difficult, which is a good thing... but it would do it by making them more similar, which is a bad thing.

IMO mach needs to be more unqiue on the offensive side.
One example might be: vargur gets better dmg at rng, while the mach gets higher paper dps i.e. swapping mach's falloff bonus with a tracking bonus or increasing the vargur's projection
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#520 - 2014-04-15 17:14:01 UTC
Garak n00biachi wrote:
That Mach buff makes no sense at all....this dev fell for the powercreep trap like many developers have fallen to it before him.


While Rattlesnake loses more things than it gains and gets gimped on top of it all. 5 drones are better than 2.

Just give us an extra mid slot on the Rattlesnake and the current 400m3 drone bay on a BATTLESHIP we trained for and you won't be shitting on your customers.