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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Abmeiz Keram
Eagle Nebula Industries
#3021 - 2014-06-01 16:57:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
As for prices, they have already gone up quite a bit despite our flooding the market. They will go up.
Or maybe you CFC's want 'us' to think that way, so you could continue to profit Blink .

Well, anyway, I'm not worried anymore that the ship will become somehow worse than it was before, but it's a shame, that it's not going to become better (or at least my passive tanked one) in a way Worm and Gila did (one thing about Gila: it's getting new, awesome model, so maybe that's where the price increase comes from and not the rebalance factorSmile).
Atach Hann
Jita Agile Police Department
#3022 - 2014-06-01 18:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Atach Hann
========================================================================================

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

========================================================================================

You killed my Rattlesnake !!!.

I am really schocked about the change of Curise missles, 50Mbit bandwidth and %275 and using only 1 or 2 drones. It is a Faction Pirate Battle Ship, not a toy. It has 400 m3 drone space but u can only use 1 Gecko, or 2 sentry drones :( 50 Mbit is nothing .. While many ships including cruises have more abilites then this Battleship.

In real I dont like changes in game, when players have those items, and spend money. I would prefer slightly improved or decressed abilities like %5 or %10 changes but you do massive changes in many things.

I know you try to decreese drones to prevent lags and server issues may be. But you also killed the fun of playing with 5 drones, and 125 Mbit and 400 m3 Drone bay things.

I also skilled to Cruise missles only cuz of this ship, and u earese the Cruise Missile bonus too :(

%275 increase is nothing, when u can only use 1 or 2 drones, u lost the sprit of this game :(

Too many bad changes here :(

Best regards

: (
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#3023 - 2014-06-01 18:14:04 UTC
Atach Hann wrote:
========================================================================================

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

========================================================================================

You killed my Rattlesnake !!!.

I am really schocked about the change of Curise missles, 50Mbit bandwidth and %275 and using only 1 or 2 drones. It is a Faction Pirate Battle Ship, not a toy. It has 400 m3 drone space but u can only use 1 Gecko, or 2 sentry drones :( 50 Mbit is nothing .. While many ships including cruises have more abilites then this Battleship.

In real I dont like changes in game, when players have those items, and spend money. I would prefer slightly improved or decressed abilities like %5 or %10 changes but you do massive changes in many things.

I know you try to decreese drones to prevent lags and server issues may be. But you also killed the fun of playing with 5 drones, and 125 Mbit and 400 m3 Drone bay things.

I also skilled to Cruise missles only cuz of this ship, and u earese the Cruise Missile bonus too :(

%275 increase is nothing, when u can only use 1 or 2 drones, u lost the sprit of this game :(

Too many bad changes here :(

Best regards

: (

That means it has the Same drone damage, with less drones. It is not hurting your DPS
Atach Hann
Jita Agile Police Department
#3024 - 2014-06-01 18:18:23 UTC
hehe so u have massive drone BATTLESHIP with 400m3 bay and u fly with 1 drone like a girl walking with a pet :(


LOL
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#3025 - 2014-06-01 18:26:57 UTC
Atach Hann wrote:
hehe so u have massive drone BATTLESHIP with 400m3 bay and u fly with 1 drone like a girl walking with a pet :(


LOL

No, You fly a massive BS with 2 Cruiser Escorts, also its dronebay is only 175 now
Nalarin
#3026 - 2014-06-01 19:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalarin
Atach Hann wrote:
I also skilled to Cruise missles only cuz of this ship, and u earese the Cruise Missile bonus too :(

Getting +50% damage to all missile sizes and an extra launcher hardpoint instead of a no damage bonus is a horrible change for the one you mentioned, which was hitting to outside your locking range already even without the velocity bonus.

Cruise Missile Launchers use missiles.
And they take Launcher hard-points.

In case I need to spell it out for you, your prescious Cruise Missiles got improved, twice.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3027 - 2014-06-01 19:02:40 UTC
Atach Hann wrote:
hehe so u have massive drone BATTLESHIP with 400m3 bay and u fly with 1 drone like a girl walking with a pet :(


LOL


The +275% is a non-change, cause in the end youll do as much damage with the two as you did with 5 before, and the missiles got +30-50% damage, so you should really pick something real to be angry about.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#3028 - 2014-06-03 01:23:19 UTC
Does the Gecko get the bonuses for the rattlesnake or will it be unbonused when used with the rattlesnake?

Is the Gecko drone considered a heavy drone for the rattlesnake bonus?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3029 - 2014-06-03 01:52:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Does the Gecko get the bonuses for the rattlesnake or will it be unbonused when used with the rattlesnake?

Is the Gecko drone considered a heavy drone for the rattlesnake bonus?


Gecko is considered heavy drone (I think it is in description and skill prereqs) and will recieve propper bonuses. However, after tomorrow they will not recieve the same buffs as all the other drones are getting in compensation for the drone interfacing skill change, so enjoy them while you can
stoicfaux
#3030 - 2014-06-03 02:56:24 UTC

    In the context of level 4s, after fiddling with the Rattlesnake some more on Sisi:
  • 2.0 AU/s is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. And you can't use warp speed rigs or the implant #6 for warp speed.
  • Ogre IIs are sloooooooooooooow. Use anything that's faster when killing lights. Especially against Serp frigates which like to orbit at 10+km.
  • Missiles are sloooooooooooooow, i.e. volley counting sucks (micromanagement or lose DPS.)
  • Sentries are sloooooooooooooooow. It's really annoying not to have drones out while you're moving to an acceleration gate which isn't that far away to begin with.
  • Rattlesnake is sloooooooooooooooooow. See previous.
  • Heavy drones require micromanagement since they tend to prefer non-frigate targets and/or whatever you're currently attacking. Ditto for sentries to a lesser degree. But at least sentries can't wander off.
  • Can only lock 7 targets. Which becomes a noticeable annoyance since you need to keep many targets locked in order to micromanage drone targets. Heavy drones tend to kill the frigates quickly, and it takes forever to lock a frigate, which makes it difficult to keep enough frigates locked to keep the heavies from being idle or from wandering off.
  • Locking is slooooooooooooooooooooow, which is compounded by being limited to 7 targets.
  • Tank is great.
  • Needs more CPU. Fitting is a pain even if you have perfect fitting skills.
  • Fitting a Rattlesnake can be sloooooooooooooooooow, because adding a prop mod requires non-trivial thinking to make it fit.
  • Ammo swapping is slooooooooooooooooooooow. Having to downgrade to T1 ammo to help kill frigate swarms faster was tedious.
  • No tractor beam is sloooooooooooooooooooow. Seriously, not having a utility high is painful.
  • Also, since when did level 4s have so many darn frigates?
  • Did I mention the tank was great? For a lot of missions the cap booster is superfluous.


tl;dr - I was considering getting a 1500+ DPS Rattlesnake, but after the slow warp speed, missile micromanagement, drone micromanagement, target locking micromanagement, and jumping through fitting hoops, the Rattlesnake is dead to me.



[Rattlesnake, Summer 33]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Garde II x2
Ogre II x2
Salvage Drone I x5
Bouncer II x2


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3031 - 2014-06-03 03:33:45 UTC
How are your complaints of things being slow any different from the way it is now?

Nothing about a battleship is fast.
stoicfaux
#3032 - 2014-06-03 03:48:11 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
How are your complaints of things being slow any different from the way it is now?

Nothing about a battleship is fast.

If 1500+ DPS and six (hundred) million dollars isk can't fix the Rattlesnake...

EVE Players: The Rattlesnake, pirate battleship. A ship rarely bought.
CCP Rise: Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the game's first desirable pirate missile drone shield tanked boat. The Rattlesnake will be that ship. Better than it was before. Better... stronger... faster.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3033 - 2014-06-03 04:19:43 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:

    In the context of level 4s, after fiddling with the Rattlesnake some more on Sisi:
  • 2.0 AU/s is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. And you can't use warp speed rigs or the implant #6 for warp speed.
  • Ogre IIs are sloooooooooooooow. Use anything that's faster when killing lights. Especially against Serp frigates which like to orbit at 10+km.
  • Missiles are sloooooooooooooow, i.e. volley counting sucks (micromanagement or lose DPS.)
  • Sentries are sloooooooooooooooow. It's really annoying not to have drones out while you're moving to an acceleration gate which isn't that far away to begin with.
  • Rattlesnake is sloooooooooooooooooow. See previous.
  • Heavy drones require micromanagement since they tend to prefer non-frigate targets and/or whatever you're currently attacking. Ditto for sentries to a lesser degree. But at least sentries can't wander off.
  • Can only lock 7 targets. Which becomes a noticeable annoyance since you need to keep many targets locked in order to micromanage drone targets. Heavy drones tend to kill the frigates quickly, and it takes forever to lock a frigate, which makes it difficult to keep enough frigates locked to keep the heavies from being idle or from wandering off.
  • Locking is slooooooooooooooooooooow, which is compounded by being limited to 7 targets.
  • Tank is great.
  • Needs more CPU. Fitting is a pain even if you have perfect fitting skills.
  • Fitting a Rattlesnake can be sloooooooooooooooooow, because adding a prop mod requires non-trivial thinking to make it fit.
  • Ammo swapping is slooooooooooooooooooooow. Having to downgrade to T1 ammo to help kill frigate swarms faster was tedious.
  • No tractor beam is sloooooooooooooooooooow. Seriously, not having a utility high is painful.
  • Also, since when did level 4s have so many darn frigates?
  • Did I mention the tank was great? For a lot of missions the cap booster is superfluous.


tl;dr - I was considering getting a 1500+ DPS Rattlesnake, but after the slow warp speed, missile micromanagement, drone micromanagement, target locking micromanagement, and jumping through fitting hoops, the Rattlesnake is dead to me.



Dunno, it kinda reads like a story starting with "so i put the 1400s and a lmjd on my mach..." :)
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#3034 - 2014-06-03 08:27:03 UTC
So, I know it's a bit late since these changes are happening in just a couple hours, but...

I tried out the Rattlesnake on Sisi. It was painful. Part of it was I think due to the Sisi lag, but overall impression wasn't that great compared to the current one.

I found myself really missing the lock range that I lost by fitting more rigors (since missile damage is now more important on things other than battleships).

I found myself somewhat missing the drone control range from the lost DLA, but not all that much, since I couldn't lock much farther than my drones could shoot anyway.

I found myself missing the extra drone optimal from the two missing omnis that I had to replace with more tank and a painter (more tank since it's now a brawler, a painter because missiles). Even for EM-weak enemies, curators with their pitiful falloff were awful.

One scenario that is significantly worse with the hero drones than before is dealing with several frigs that are approaching me. On TQ, I assign one drone to hit each target, and the sentries take out the frigs in a volley or two with very little "wasted" dps. On Sisi, I can only assign my drone damage in halves--and half of my drone damage is more than sufficient to blap any incoming frig with a lot of "wasted" dps. So, I miss being able to assign only 1/5th of my drone damage to a single target.

I'm fairly certain the missions took less time than on TQ, but it was rather more annoying and frustrating to work with.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3035 - 2014-06-03 08:41:35 UTC
lol at all these people who think the rattler being slightly better or worse at pve is relevant in any real way.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3036 - 2014-06-03 09:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
stoicfaux wrote:
  • Ogre IIs are sloooooooooooooow. Use anything that's faster when killing lights. Especially against Serp frigates which like to orbit at 10+km.



    • That sounds very like the drone range buff isnt in play. I think a lot of people missed it, as it was just added without much fanfare.

    Quote:
    All combat drones will now orbit and attack at longer ranges than before. Light drones will be orbit between 40% and 60% farther than before, medium drones between 180% and 220% farther, and heavy drones will see their orbit range increased by between 1300% and 1500%. Optimal ranges and attack ranges are rising accordingly. Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges.
    stoicfaux
    #3037 - 2014-06-03 12:19:30 UTC
    afkalt wrote:
    stoicfaux wrote:
  • Ogre IIs are sloooooooooooooow. Use anything that's faster when killing lights. Especially against Serp frigates which like to orbit at 10+km.



    • That sounds very like the drone range buff isnt in play. I think a lot of people missed it, as it was just added without much fanfare.

    Quote:
    All combat drones will now orbit and attack at longer ranges than before. Light drones will be orbit between 40% and 60% farther than before, medium drones between 180% and 220% farther, and heavy drones will see their orbit range increased by between 1300% and 1500%. Optimal ranges and attack ranges are rising accordingly. Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges.

    I'm pretty sure that Sisi has had the drone range changes the past couple of days (i.e. the stats on the info tab reflected that.) I was a bit surprised at how underwhelming it was in practice.

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
    stoicfaux
    #3038 - 2014-06-03 12:20:57 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
    Garviel Tarrant wrote:
    lol at all these people who think the rattler being slightly better or worse at pve is relevant in any real way.

    RMT is very important to CCP. Just ask their accountants.


    edit: Do you think that the accounts have "CCP Foo" titles/names and the ability to post as such?

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
    Dimitri Zaitsev
    Tellurium Fighters
    #3039 - 2014-06-03 19:55:10 UTC
    The Rattlesnake got some good and also some very bad changes. It's way easier to target and destroy two sentry/heavy drones it's able to deploy now than to target and destroy five of them. This was really stupid.

    It's cool to show a 275% damage bonus but in practice CCP gave something with one hand and took back another thing with the other hand. Also this bonus is just for sentry and heavy drones. Why not the other drones ?

    Why the hell shrink the drone badwidth so badly ? This made combat utility and support drones completely useless with this ship.

    Better change the game's name to Eve on Nerf.

    Machariels are also strangely balanced.

    Instead of modifying roles or nerfing everything at your sight why not just create marks ?

    Example:

    - Ship Mk1 with original specs until they're destroyed and able for production untill all the BPCs runs out. All BPOs are then converted to Mk2 when a new mod appears.

    - Ship Mk2 with modifications, same behaviour as above

    - and so on

    When a maker release a new car, with new features, the old cars aren't converted instantly like magic.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #3040 - 2014-06-03 20:13:41 UTC
    Dimitri Zaitsev wrote:
    The Rattlesnake got some good and also some very bad changes. It's way easier to target and destroy two sentry/heavy drones it's able to deploy now than to target and destroy five of them. This was really stupid.

    They have the same HP as a flight of five. Its no easier to remove them.
    Dimitri Zaitsev wrote:

    It's cool to show a 275% damage bonus but in practice CCP gave something with one hand and took back another thing with the other hand. Also this bonus is just for sentry and heavy drones. Why not the other drones ?


    It would cause imbalance issues vs smaller ships.
    Dimitri Zaitsev wrote:

    Why the hell shrink the drone badwidth so badly ? This made combat utility and support drones completely useless with this ship.


    A flight of heavies or sentries take up 50m3 rather than 125m3. You don't need a 400m3 dronebay anymore.