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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#2741 - 2014-05-21 23:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
The Rattlesnake needs more high/mid/low slots. Not specialized DPS that will make it unpractical. Even less people will be flying them once these changes go through.

The loss of missile velocity bonus totally unnecessary. So much for that awesome 400m3 drone bay with bonuses to all drones. Sad
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2742 - 2014-05-22 00:12:05 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
And i strongly agree with him but when,personalization/strategy/tradeoffs doesn't even allow a whole category weapons to be fitted anymore ,they could as well remove it from the game and spare us the lost training time for a specific weapons system .
In the current game artillerry as lost most platform outside of some t1 cruiser .
There is barely enought grid on any ship to fit 720mm or 1400mm with an acceptable tradeoffs ,actually to play with them you have to plugs a full genolution+rigs+engineering implants.No other large or long range weapons need that much compromize to be used . And this issue must be adressed.


Tach's have the same issue, except on the NM & Paladin. Arties fit fine on the Vargur...
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2743 - 2014-05-22 00:29:47 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
And i strongly agree with him but when,personalization/strategy/tradeoffs doesn't even allow a whole category weapons to be fitted anymore ,they could as well remove it from the game and spare us the lost training time for a specific weapons system .
In the current game artillerry as lost most platform outside of some t1 cruiser .
There is barely enought grid on any ship to fit 720mm or 1400mm with an acceptable tradeoffs ,actually to play with them you have to plugs a full genolution+rigs+engineering implants.No other large or long range weapons need that much compromize to be used . And this issue must be adressed.


Tach's have the same issue, except on the NM & Paladin. Arties fit fine on the Vargur...

Indeed.. Tach's put 1400's to shame with their issues.. Aside from the NM and Paladin, Amarr ships need SEVERAL fitting mods to fit a full rack of them.

A Mach needs a low slot or a Rig, and depending on skill an hardwire.
Myrthiis
Boon Odd Ducks Bath Toys
#2744 - 2014-05-22 01:49:04 UTC
Cool so we share the same issues ,instead of fighting maybe we could adress this .
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2745 - 2014-05-22 01:59:16 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
Cool so we share the same issues ,instead of fighting maybe we could adress this .

But I'm fine with it.. I fly a Nightmare, my Tach's fit fine :D
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2746 - 2014-05-22 02:17:19 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
Cool so we share the same issues ,instead of fighting maybe we could adress this .

But I'm fine with it.. I fly a Nightmare, my Tach's fit fine :D


Most of those fitting issues were intentionally created to keep certain fittings from being done without major drawbacks, I believe.

I'm sure they'll eventually get around to taking another look at weapon powergrids. Rails are a bit too light on the fittings, Tach's are a bit too heavy... I actually consider the Arty balance to be just right, myself.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2747 - 2014-05-22 05:03:18 UTC
Myrthiis wrote:
And i strongly agree with him but when,personalization/strategy/tradeoffs doesn't even allow a whole category weapons to be fitted anymore ,they could as well remove it from the game and spare us the lost training time for a specific weapons system .
In the current game artillerry as lost most platform outside of some t1 cruiser .
There is barely enought grid on any ship to fit 720mm or 1400mm with an acceptable tradeoffs ,actually to play with them you have to plugs a full genolution+rigs+engineering implants.No other large or long range weapons need that much compromize to be used . And this issue must be adressed.


A single RCU is needed for a 1400mm mack.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2748 - 2014-05-22 06:59:21 UTC
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
Cool so we share the same issues ,instead of fighting maybe we could adress this .

But I'm fine with it.. I fly a Nightmare, my Tach's fit fine :D


Most of those fitting issues were intentionally created to keep certain fittings from being done without major drawbacks, I believe.

I'm sure they'll eventually get around to taking another look at weapon powergrids. Rails are a bit too light on the fittings, Tach's are a bit too heavy... I actually consider the Arty balance to be just right, myself.

So your thinking is, we will get a 3rd T2 rail gun with higher fitting requirements?

The only large weapon system with 3 X T2 variants is Lasers, the fact they have slightly high fitting requirements is quite acceptable. Especially when taking PG on T1 battleships (most commonly seen) into consideration for fittings.
Abaddon 21,000
Maelstrom 21,000
Rokh 15,000
Megathron 15,500
Pirate ships being balanced to suit weapons with trade off's is 1 thing, balancing weapons to suit Pirate ships should never occur.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2749 - 2014-05-22 07:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
Cool so we share the same issues ,instead of fighting maybe we could adress this .

But I'm fine with it.. I fly a Nightmare, my Tach's fit fine :D


Most of those fitting issues were intentionally created to keep certain fittings from being done without major drawbacks, I believe.

I'm sure they'll eventually get around to taking another look at weapon powergrids. Rails are a bit too light on the fittings, Tach's are a bit too heavy... I actually consider the Arty balance to be just right, myself.

So your thinking is, we will get a 3rd T2 rail gun with higher fitting requirements?

The only large weapon system with 3 X T2 variants is Lasers, the fact they have slightly high fitting requirements is quite acceptable. Especially when taking PG on T1 battleships (most commonly seen) into consideration for fittings.
Abaddon 21,000
Maelstrom 21,000
Rokh 15,000
Megathron 15,500
Pirate ships being balanced to suit weapons with trade off's is 1 thing, balancing weapons to suit Pirate ships should never occur.

Ummm, You mean a 3rd Arty. Their already ARE 3 diffrent sizes of rail guns 250s 350s 425s
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2750 - 2014-05-22 11:55:33 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Cassandra Aurilien wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
Myrthiis wrote:
Cool so we share the same issues ,instead of fighting maybe we could adress this .

But I'm fine with it.. I fly a Nightmare, my Tach's fit fine :D


Most of those fitting issues were intentionally created to keep certain fittings from being done without major drawbacks, I believe.

I'm sure they'll eventually get around to taking another look at weapon powergrids. Rails are a bit too light on the fittings, Tach's are a bit too heavy... I actually consider the Arty balance to be just right, myself.

So your thinking is, we will get a 3rd T2 rail gun with higher fitting requirements?

The only large weapon system with 3 X T2 variants is Lasers, the fact they have slightly high fitting requirements is quite acceptable. Especially when taking PG on T1 battleships (most commonly seen) into consideration for fittings.
Abaddon 21,000
Maelstrom 21,000
Rokh 15,000
Megathron 15,500
Pirate ships being balanced to suit weapons with trade off's is 1 thing, balancing weapons to suit Pirate ships should never occur.


I don't consider the pirate ship fittings to be an issue. (The Mach was setup the way it was for a reason...) If anything, it's the T1 ships that are an issue. Rail ships don't require a fitting mod for most fittings, Arty & Laser ships do. (A megathron with 425's has close to 5000 powergrid left, a Apoc with Tach's is short 500.)

There is more to it, of course, the higher DPS on Tach's/Alpha on Arties somewhat evens it out, but there is a reason that everyone loves Megathrons. (Besides that they look awesome. Big smile )
Mare Nardieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2751 - 2014-05-22 16:22:03 UTC
RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Is it just me or does the idea of lowering the Drone Bandwidth form 125 to 50 and giving the Rattlesnake a role bonus of 275% bonus dmg and HP to Heavy and Sentry drones seem like a kick in the pants. Unless I have missed some other post about heavies and sentries getting a Bandwidth reduction that still means that we could only deploy 2 Heavy drones or sentries at one time. The fact that the Rattlesnake is getting one more launcher slot doesn't even seem to make this a fair deal IMO,
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#2752 - 2014-05-22 16:24:26 UTC
Mare Nardieu wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 5 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Is it just me or does the idea of lowering the Drone Bandwidth form 125 to 50 and giving the Rattlesnake a role bonus of 275% bonus dmg and HP to Heavy and Sentry drones seem like a kick in the pants. Unless I have missed some other post about heavies and sentries getting a Bandwidth reduction that still means that we could only deploy 2 Heavy drones or sentries at one time. The fact that the Rattlesnake is getting one more launcher slot doesn't even seem to make this a fair deal IMO,



Heavy and Sentry drones will do the same damage as before. look at the role bonus
Mare Nardieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2753 - 2014-05-22 16:28:44 UTC
Even with just being able to deploy only 2 Heavies or sentries? That doesn't
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2754 - 2014-05-22 16:30:45 UTC
Mare Nardieu wrote:
Even with just being able to deploy only 2 Heavies or sentries? That doesn't


275% bonus. Each drone equals 3.75 drones x 2 = 7.5 effective drones.
Mare Nardieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2755 - 2014-05-22 16:35:22 UTC
Huh, ok then....always failed at math I have.
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2756 - 2014-05-22 16:35:48 UTC
Mare Nardieu wrote:
Even with just being able to deploy only 2 Heavies or sentries? That doesn't


Here's how it works. Currently, every drone launched from the rattle snake gets +50% damage and hp (at max skills). This equates to 7.5 effective drones on a non-bonused drone ship. After the buff, the rattlesnake can launch only two drones, but each of those gets +275% health and damage, again equating to 7.5 effective drones.

EDIT: someone else beat me to it.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
Mare Nardieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2757 - 2014-05-22 16:40:14 UTC
Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2758 - 2014-05-22 16:43:03 UTC
Mare Nardieu wrote:
Gotcha, sorry was also raging a bit, I love my Rattlesnake and at first that changes made it look like it was getting screwed over alot.


It's basically getting it's dps doubled.

The only "loss" is of light drones, which are rather pointless when you have fully bonused missiles to go with the sentry drones.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mare Nardieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2759 - 2014-05-22 16:47:35 UTC
The only point i could see for light drones is if your heavies cant hit frigs, other then that I haven't used lights on a Rattle since my sentries can take out a frig at 20 to 90 km easily and my heavies can track them fairly decently as well.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2760 - 2014-05-22 16:50:21 UTC
Mare Nardieu wrote:
The only point i could see for light drones is if your heavies cant hit frigs, other then that I haven't used lights on a Rattle since my sentries can take out a frig at 20 to 90 km easily and my heavies can track them fairly decently as well.


In addition, they recently released a superheavy drone called the Gecko. It uses 50mb of bandwidth, hits as hard as two Ogre IIs, is faster than a Valkyrie, and eats frigates like popcorn.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.