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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2381 - 2014-05-09 23:20:44 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur wrote:
Juin Tsukaya wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
400% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)
(2+400%=10 effective drones)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+0)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Snip


front page says 275%. where did you get 400%?

2*275 = 5.5 drones? sorry, not much of an improvement


Bonus means in addition. 100%(what they do on their own)+275%(the bonus)=375%

2*375%=7.5(what is currently does)

I think the 400% was meant as a counter proposal. You sniped the part where he said that this was "how the Rattlenake should be", and I do'nt want to find his quote.


Yes it's my idea of how to turn the rattler into a drone boat since right now it does more dps with missiles contrary to the worm and gila which both use drones as primary damage source .



I agree the focus should be weighted towards drones, but heavy drones will need to be able to apply their damage as they are still pretty useless without tracking and orbit speed bonuses etc. the gecko seems useful, heavies with the non dps stats of the gecko would be nice.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#2382 - 2014-05-09 23:31:36 UTC
During the fanfest, didn't Rise announce he was moving to another department? Maybe he was taken off the balancing team.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2383 - 2014-05-09 23:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
During the fanfest, didn't Rise announce he was moving to another department? Maybe he was taken off the balancing team.

Really? I missed that was it in a stream? Or just one of the lobby interviews?

Info please?

I do not envy him trying to deal with all this, If so I hope he gets a nice promotion as compensation.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2384 - 2014-05-09 23:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHqFgn4SOw&feature=player_embedded
0:50 "We really value hearing from you guys..."
1:35 "Now I've been moved to this team..."
Addendum: Make a mental note of this as the last comment to this effect got REDACTED.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2385 - 2014-05-09 23:39:08 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rattlesnake = way to circumvent 50-limit for drone assist.
Gee, is it any wonder the PvP community is so excited for this thing? Lol

25 Snakes with nearly as much missile Dps as Drones or 10 Domis / Ishtars.. Hmm big decision - Not really is it?

Snakes using max Drone control (100 of them in 1 fleet) would be massive Dps and a sight to see. Even with 2 midslot onmis you could still go light on Logi (especially compared to ishtars) as the Snake could still field a decent tank.

Biggest drawback to this is where Snakes come from - If anyone started using them as a Doctrine you could be sure the price would go through the roof. I know several people with 20 or 30 Bpc's, just waiting for the prices to go up.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2386 - 2014-05-09 23:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHqFgn4SOw&feature=player_embedded
0:50 "We really value hearing from you guys..."
1:35 "Now I've been moved to this team..."



That's nice a new role he can grow into and develop.

Congratulations CCP Rise, best wishes, and every success in your new role.
A very worthwhile project.


So Fozzie any chance of sorting out this pile of rancid whale sputum?Big smile

AkA Gurista's Rattlesnake?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2387 - 2014-05-09 23:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rattlesnake = way to circumvent 50-limit for drone assist.
Gee, is it any wonder the PvP community is so excited for this thing? Lol

25 Snakes with nearly as much missile Dps as Drones or 10 Domis / Ishtars.. Hmm big decision - Not really is it?

Snakes using max Drone control (100 of them in 1 fleet) would be massive Dps and a sight to see. Even with 2 midslot onmis you could still go light on Logi (especially compared to ishtars) as the Snake could still field a decent tank.

Biggest drawback to this is where Snakes come from - If anyone started using them as a Doctrine you could be sure the price would go through the roof. I know several people with 20 or 30 Bpc's, just waiting for the prices to go up.



If it became a doctrine I do not think ANY would be coming to the market somehow?
They would hold on to every one to deprive the opposition from having them.
Now I understand all the attempts to crush any discussion that might lead to any changes.
Guess i didn't stock up on enough Tinfoil, this time We would have been right to wrap up well

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2388 - 2014-05-10 00:29:03 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Rattlesnake = way to circumvent 50-limit for drone assist.
Gee, is it any wonder the PvP community is so excited for this thing? Lol


actual non-awful pvpers want drone assist removed, and think it's a bit silly to keep it in the game for... incursion runners and miners? I think that seriously was the justification.



Single flgiht of drones assit could very well be kept. Makes sense one ship transfer their droens to another.. jsut that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
M Key
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2389 - 2014-05-10 02:18:29 UTC
yes, yes, the new rattlesnake is absolutely terrible. How can it survive L4's with the best dps and best tank one can expect in highsec? I mean it HAS UNBONUSED LIGHT DRONES PEOPLE!!!!

Meanwhile I'll be grabbing one to fly the missile DPS and Tank of a Navy Scorp, while enjoying the drone DPS of a T1 drone battleship on the side.

Oh yah, and 3 DDA buffing your light drones is 3 DDA more than most battleships enjoy for their light drones.

Only real question is AB, MJD, or MJD + AB.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof
New Eden Corporation 98713347
Brotherhood of Spacers
#2390 - 2014-05-10 02:38:34 UTC
M Key wrote:
yes, yes, the new rattlesnake is absolutely terrible. How can it survive L4's with the best dps and best tank one can expect in highsec? I mean it HAS UNBONUSED LIGHT DRONES PEOPLE!!!!

Meanwhile I'll be grabbing one to fly the missile DPS and Tank of a Navy Scorp, while enjoying the drone DPS of a T1 drone battleship on the side.

Oh yah, and 3 DDA buffing your light drones is 3 DDA more than most battleships enjoy for their light drones.

Only real question is AB, MJD, or MJD + AB.

I at one time was running a snake with a MJD and MWD. That 2 slot mission tank was Intresting when i ****** up the MJD jump
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2391 - 2014-05-10 03:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
M Key wrote:
yes, yes, the new rattlesnake is absolutely terrible. How can it survive L4's with the best dps and best tank one can expect in highsec? I mean it HAS UNBONUSED LIGHT DRONES PEOPLE!!!!

Meanwhile I'll be grabbing one to fly the missile DPS and Tank of a Navy Scorp, while enjoying the drone DPS of a T1 drone battleship on the side.

Oh yah, and 3 DDA buffing your light drones is 3 DDA more than most battleships enjoy for their light drones.

Only real question is AB, MJD, or MJD + AB.
Combined DPS will be quite awesome. Tank will also be quite good, but I think you are forgetting marauders in proclaiming it the best.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2392 - 2014-05-10 04:40:47 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Combined DPS will be quite awesome. Tank will also be quite good, but I think you are forgetting marauders in proclaiming it the best.

The super drones seem to attract a lot more NPC aggro and may not be as effective. You won't be able to RR these as easily, either.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2393 - 2014-05-10 04:57:19 UTC
Honestly, the Navy Scorpion is a superior platform to the Rattlesnake in every way. It's got better tank, better missile damage and application and none of the drawbacks inherent in a dual-weapon system. At best you can devote 4/7 slots on the Rattlesnake to tank (5/7 without propulsion) plus a damage control if you only utilize 2 BCU's and 3 DDA's. If you have to recall any of your drones or redeploy you're losing about 60% of your dps. You pretty much have to relegate your rigs to either missile damage application or improving drone durability, tracking or range.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2394 - 2014-05-10 05:15:28 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Honestly, the Navy Scorpion is a superior platform to the Rattlesnake in every way. It's got better tank, better missile damage and application and none of the drawbacks inherent in a dual-weapon system. At best you can devote 4/7 slots on the Rattlesnake to tank (5/7 without propulsion) plus a damage control if you only utilize 2 BCU's and 3 DDA's. If you have to recall any of your drones or redeploy you're losing about 60% of your dps. You pretty much have to relegate your rigs to either missile damage application or improving drone durability, tracking or range.


Navy scorp does not have better missile damage or better aplication than the new rattle.
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2395 - 2014-05-10 05:15:44 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Honestly, the Navy Scorpion is a superior platform to the Rattlesnake in every way. It's got better tank, better missile damage and application and none of the drawbacks inherent in a dual-weapon system. At best you can devote 4/7 slots on the Rattlesnake to tank (5/7 without propulsion) plus a damage control if you only utilize 2 BCU's and 3 DDA's. If you have to recall any of your drones or redeploy you're losing about 60% of your dps. You pretty much have to relegate your rigs to either missile damage application or improving drone durability, tracking or range.



I love my Navy Scorp. I've found it to be the absolute best ship for transporting a few hundred million worth in goods to or from Jita without having to worry about it.

For most other purposes, I'd rather take the new Snake. Having all that drone DPS on top of the missile DPS...

Dual weapon systems are tricky, true, and not for everyone... The 4 slot tank + resist bonus on the Snake will be a lot better than the 2 slot on the traditional (though insane Big smile) Typhoon Fleet... I'm looking forward to trying it out.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2396 - 2014-05-10 05:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
baltec1 wrote:
Navy scorp does not have better missile damage or better aplication than the new rattle.

Thermal and kinetic are two of the easiest resistances to counter. Meanwhile, while you're applying 25% more EM or explosive damage - I'm applying 60% more. But it's actually more than that because I can allocate 4-5 BCU's while most Rattlesnake configurations can sport maybe 2-3 max (not that the 5th adds a lot, but 1.5% is still 1.5%). With 8 mids the Navy Scorpion can easily match or out-tank a Rattlesnake and still have an extra slot for a target painter or web. I could also point out that the extra +50 configuration also allows it to run a 3x T2 Rigor/Flare combination for better damage application.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
M Key
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2397 - 2014-05-10 05:33:24 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Combined DPS will be quite awesome. Tank will also be quite good, but I think you are forgetting marauders in proclaiming it the best.


Its going to have something like 50% more dps than my Paladin, and the tank should be even better with the same number of slots put into it. AB for some speed tanking makes a huge difference too. Marauders either have to sit there and take it on the chin to get the bastion tanking buffs, or lose it to get the speed/transversal reductions. nevermind the pain of cycling the bastion if stuff gets under your guns. I love guns for blapping frigates from 100km, but the rattlesnake is going to be murder at any range to any size ship. 3x DDA will ensure that even if you are too cheap to haul along precision missiles.

This is all PvE based. Not going to comment on PvP.

As far as the navy scorp vs rattle? Not a contest if you have even trival drone skills. Fit the rattle like a N. Scorp and It will wreck shop. Fit it proper and you got a massive advantage in every aspect of mission running other than outright tank. Mostly cause the Navy Scorp can waste slots like mad and still have a proper fit. So why not tank all the things? Don't get me wrong I love the Navy Scorpion, even before it got buffed... Its just a ship that falls behind the raw DPS other ships have to get through L4s quick.
Juin Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#2398 - 2014-05-10 05:36:44 UTC
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur wrote:
Juin Tsukaya wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
400% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Cruise missile and Torpedo max velocity)
(2+400%=10 effective drones)


Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+0)
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75) / 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Snip


front page says 275%. where did you get 400%?

2*275 = 5.5 drones? sorry, not much of an improvement


Bonus means in addition. 100%(what they do on their own)+275%(the bonus)=375%

2*375%=7.5(what is currently does)

I think the 400% was meant as a counter proposal. You sniped the part where he said that this was "how the Rattlenake should be", and I do'nt want to find his quote.



ah, I did miss that. and I wasn't aware is was in addition to. thought it was 275% of current rate
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#2399 - 2014-05-10 05:41:18 UTC
M Key wrote:
Its just a ship that falls behind the raw DPS other ships have to get through L4s quick.

That remains to be seen. You can't just use the raw DPS as a performance gauge.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#2400 - 2014-05-10 05:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Crazy KSK
M Key wrote:
yes, yes, the new rattlesnake is absolutely terrible. How can it survive L4's with the best dps and best tank one can expect in highsec? I mean it HAS UNBONUSED LIGHT DRONES PEOPLE!!!!

Meanwhile I'll be grabbing one to fly the missile DPS and Tank of a Navy Scorp, while enjoying the drone DPS of a T1 drone battleship on the side.

Oh yah, and 3 DDA buffing your light drones is 3 DDA more than most battleships enjoy for their light drones.

Only real question is AB, MJD, or MJD + AB.


another reason the rattles dps needs to be shifted more to drones stepping on other ships toes is bad

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.