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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Battleships

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Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2181 - 2014-05-06 22:47:43 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?
As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.

I'd be prepared to lose the launchers and missile bonus, along with a minor slot adjustment (-2h, +1m, +1l).

The solution is simple.

Up the bandwidth (and bay) so it can launch 2 Gecko's or 4 Heavies.. and half all the drone bonuses.

This lets it field 2 "Super" drones.. or 4 more standard but still bonused Heavies/Sentires.. It also increases the utility by allowing for deploying more EWAR or Logi drones than the current setup has.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2182 - 2014-05-06 22:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Thread reopened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2183 - 2014-05-07 02:28:11 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wouldnt two geckos create a 3000 dps battleship?
As awesome as it would be, I feel compelled to suggest it'd be a bad idea.

I'd be prepared to lose the launchers and missile bonus, along with a minor slot adjustment (-2h, +1m, +1l).

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
'm still not sold on this considering the limited fittings to try to make both systems work. Maybe that's where RHML's shine in their lack of need for rigors to help apply damage, though range augmentation may be desirable. Either way, in PvE a Gecko on an RS should be a very hard target and used properly should have little risk of going down.

That's why I'd rather see the Rattlesnake as a dedicated drone boat. Barring that, rapid heavy missile launchers are really the only option. I look at them more for "pest control" than anything else.
I'm inclined to agree on the one way or another philosophy. With the Mordu incoming we may well have drones be in the same place missiles were in not having a dedicated platform, at least at the BS level.

I'm just having a hard time thinking about how to make it both advantageous and flexible without ending up with another domi. The idea of dropping launchers and highs for lows/mids seems nice, but I'd want my bonused lights back in the trade since I'd be losing what was given to the missile side to compensate.



Well if Heavy drones were awesome you would boost those with every rig and module available.
Missiles?
Fit lights and be done with it. Why drop launchers, an option for those who like them.
well it is an option.
Hate drones? fit for cruise, heavy, torpedo, or whatever floats your boat and hope someone else kills the frigates.
two geckos? kill everything while grinning in a crazy manner.
I guess I'm losing something from this post. The suggestion I was replying to explicitly removed missiles, so offering solutions with missiles doesn't make sense.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2184 - 2014-05-07 03:35:52 UTC
Definitely rapid heavy missile launchers. If the missile damage bonus was omni I'd be in heaven...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2185 - 2014-05-07 03:37:55 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Definitely rapid heavy missile launchers. If the missile damage bonus was omni I'd be in heaven...


Another reason why rapids will always be crap.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2186 - 2014-05-07 03:42:21 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Definitely rapid heavy missile launchers. If the missile damage bonus was omni I'd be in heaven...


Another reason why rapids will always be crap.

A selective bonus on the RS hull isn't really a fault of RHML's themselves.
Priestess Lin
Darkfall Corp
#2187 - 2014-05-07 03:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Priestess Lin
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Definitely rapid heavy missile launchers. If the missile damage bonus was omni I'd be in heaven...


Another reason why rapids will always be crap.

A selective bonus on the RS hull isn't really a fault of RHML's themselves.



Why do they change the best drone boat BS with omni damage into a yet another specialized DPS missile ship?Question

When discussing weaknesses of heavy drones vs fast frigates: baltec1- " A thanatos with a flight of geckos killed a bomber gang while AFK. So yea, they track frigates just fine." https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4678049#post4678049
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#2188 - 2014-05-07 06:51:20 UTC
P my snake.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Juin Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#2189 - 2014-05-07 08:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Juin Tsukaya
Well, I couldn't tell either way from that video. Sounded like the decision was done. and no change to what was posted here. they did specifically state that gurista ships will handle only 2 drones. In what way that makes Gurista faction ships the best drone boats out there? well it doesn't. I think he meant best pirate faction boats.

Unfortunately, even the soe cruiser, the Astero, can field more drones and has more drone capacity capacity. As a matter of fact, it has the same drone and is an armor tanker like a Vexor. I thought they didn't want to double up?

Because of this I am not really seeing it's justification. no other drone boat was designed as a shield tank. so in regards to the rattler, there was no double up.


editted to correct a mistake
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2190 - 2014-05-07 08:52:35 UTC
So the Gecko will really spice up the drone world with the rattlesnake, but i think people are also forgetting the new faction damage amps that will be released pushing this DPS up further. CCP i congratulate you these changes combined really do offer the drone weapon system a chance to be a truly primary weapon system.

Just so long as the gecko has a chance of drops in all plexes regardless of rating id be happy.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#2191 - 2014-05-07 10:04:56 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
So the Gecko will really spice up the drone world with the rattlesnake, but i think people are also forgetting the new faction damage amps that will be released pushing this DPS up further. CCP i congratulate you these changes combined really do offer the drone weapon system a chance to be a truly primary weapon system.

Just so long as the gecko has a chance of drops in all plexes regardless of rating id be happy.


Yeah, faction drone amps are going to push the value of Gallente and Amarr LP up a bit, I think.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2192 - 2014-05-07 10:08:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vulfen wrote:
So the Gecko will really spice up the drone world with the rattlesnake, but i think people are also forgetting the new faction damage amps that will be released pushing this DPS up further. CCP i congratulate you these changes combined really do offer the drone weapon system a chance to be a truly primary weapon system.

Just so long as the gecko has a chance of drops in all plexes regardless of rating id be happy.


Yeah, faction drone amps are going to push the value of Gallente and Amarr LP up a bit, I think.



Once settled down i expect them to be the same price as a CN ballistic control
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2193 - 2014-05-07 11:11:30 UTC
@CCP Rise slightly off the main topic but.... considering the new drones from the guristas side are going to be about the same power as a cruiser & ehp like an attack cruiser, would it be possible to see fleet bonuses pass down onto the drones? they are within the fleet and im sure a new skill that everyone can train i.e drone commander could maybe be put in effect, where you get 10% bonus to how much is passed down per level. that way at lvl 5 the drones should receive 50% of the fleet bonuses that are passing down from FC/WC/SC and the launching ship.

This way drones will get a boost to their speed and sig radius while moving to help defend themselves, with skirmish links. and resistance bonuses from armour and shield links. aswell as logistics drones getting a boost to their repairs. i believe caping it at 50% is good aswell as you may make them a little over powered otherwise.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2194 - 2014-05-07 11:17:12 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
@CCP Rise slightly off the main topic but.... considering the new drones from the guristas side are going to be about the same power as a cruiser & ehp like an attack cruiser, would it be possible to see fleet bonuses pass down onto the drones? they are within the fleet and im sure a new skill that everyone can train i.e drone commander could maybe be put in effect, where you get 10% bonus to how much is passed down per level. that way at lvl 5 the drones should receive 50% of the fleet bonuses that are passing down from FC/WC/SC and the launching ship.

This way drones will get a boost to their speed and sig radius while moving to help defend themselves, with skirmish links. and resistance bonuses from armour and shield links. aswell as logistics drones getting a boost to their repairs. i believe caping it at 50% is good aswell as you may make them a little over powered otherwise.


I'm not sure I agree that this should happen for drones, but for fighters it makes sense to me.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2195 - 2014-05-07 11:55:53 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
OK here is the full stream, just up
Fanfest keynote

Very Very different to his original post here, This really needs updating soon now. Things must have moved on In CCP in the meantime.


Listen for yourselves.

" they ( the ships) will all get enormous bonuses To drone damage and HP". (his emphasis)

So the same effective damage as before on the rattlesnake really is not what they have just said in front of the whole of the eve community, live, on TV.

So hopefully clarification soon.


Please sing in the voice of Natalie Imbruglia.
"Delusion never changed
Into something real"
I know the first word is a slight alteration from the actual lyric.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2196 - 2014-05-07 11:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Silvetica Dian wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
OK here is the full stream, just up
Fanfest keynote

Very Very different to his original post here, This really needs updating soon now. Things must have moved on In CCP in the meantime.


Listen for yourselves.

" they ( the ships) will all get enormous bonuses To drone damage and HP". (his emphasis)

So the same effective damage as before on the rattlesnake really is not what they have just said in front of the whole of the eve community, live, on TV.

So hopefully clarification soon.


Please sing in the voice of Natalie Imbruglia.
"Delusion never changed
Into something real"
I know the first word is a slight alteration from the actual lyric.

Well I would rather believe CCP rises own words than A random forum poster/alt.
But I would not want to challenge your preconceptions.
Nothing to see here, Move along..................................>

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2197 - 2014-05-07 12:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
I have been just trying out the new Geckos with a Gila.
Two of them are really quite impressive,
If they were fitted to an Ishtar they would be even more so.
The New Gila with it's medium hero drones, will also have amazing effects, and will chomp up frigates, it seems, with ease.
so thats good, Gila and Ishtar different applications. Gila will be a sort of precision Ishtar..

Now If the Original post still stood, then the Rattlesnake will fit only one, and the suggested stats for heavies, do not move things on from the restrictions heavies have today.

As it stands the rattlesnake would be a far weaker drone boat with the Geckos than any other battleship with a drone bonus.
Dominix with 2 geckos and an ogre or sentry will walk all over it. even a hyperion with 2 Geckos and an Ogre gets damn close. A HYPERION??? RollShocked WTF?

Things must have moved on I imagine, because That would be really worrying if it had not been for the statements that CCP Rise made at fanfest. Where CCP Rise specifically said that the Gurista's Pirate speciality, would be for them to have to have the most powerful Subcap Drone platforms in the game.

Come on , Put us out of our misery? The sentries are fine, I understand If you feel the need to keep them,and bonused to current levels, But Make the heavies live up to your promise, Great damage and great application will be wonderful. Big smile

Hopefully the following applies.
Quote:
if you see something that seems really weird, it may be a mistake/typo so just let me know and I'll check it out):

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#2198 - 2014-05-07 12:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Quote:
I guess I'm losing something from this post. The suggestion I was replying to explicitly removed missiles, so offering solutions with missiles doesn't make sense.



My mistake, I responded to part not the whole post,
Oopssorry for any confusion caused.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2199 - 2014-05-07 13:02:30 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


As it stands the rattlesnake would be a far weaker drone boat with the Geckos than any other battleship with a drone bonus.
Dominix with 2 geckos and an ogre or sentry will walk all over it. even a hyperion with 2 Geckos and an Ogre gets damn close. A HYPERION??? RollShocked WTF?


Think about this a bit more logically - you will always want to max your drone potential, so in a domi/ishtar etc you will use 2 geckos 2 mediums & 1 light.

From what i can see on a rattlesnake you will always only match a domi/ishtar, never beat it, when shield tanked with the same number of damage amps. the difference is the rattlesnake allows you to put other mods there making up for that difference. while at the same time beating the tank that either of these 2 can provide.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2200 - 2014-05-07 13:44:22 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
I have been just trying out the new Geckos with a Gila.
Two of them are really quite impressive,
If they were fitted to an Ishtar they would be even more so.
The New Gila with it's medium hero drones, will also have amazing effects, and will chomp up frigates, it seems, with ease.
so thats good, Gila and Ishtar different applications. Gila will be a sort of precision Ishtar..

Now If the Original post still stood, then the Rattlesnake will fit only one, and the suggested stats for heavies, do not move things on from the restrictions heavies have today.

As it stands the rattlesnake would be a far weaker drone boat with the Geckos than any other battleship with a drone bonus.
Dominix with 2 geckos and an ogre or sentry will walk all over it. even a hyperion with 2 Geckos and an Ogre gets damn close. A HYPERION??? RollShocked WTF?

Things must have moved on I imagine, because That would be really worrying if it had not been for the statements that CCP Rise made at fanfest. Where CCP Rise specifically said that the Gurista's Pirate speciality, would be for them to have to have the most powerful Subcap Drone platforms in the game.

Come on , Put us out of our misery? The sentries are fine, I understand If you feel the need to keep them,and bonused to current levels, But Make the heavies live up to your promise, Great damage and great application will be wonderful. Big smile

Hopefully the following applies.
Quote:
if you see something that seems really weird, it may be a mistake/typo so just let me know and I'll check it out):


I've done some fairly extensive analysis on the post-summer drone and rattlesnake situation, being an enthusiastic drone PVPer and initially a sceptic of the new guristas lineup.

Don't forget that the rattlesnake gets a 275% bonus to drone damage so the drone damage output of a rattlesnake compared to a dominix with 2 geckos, 2 hammerheads and 1 hobgoblin (both with 3 T2 DDAs) is 1026 vs 1029 (a difference of 3 dps).

On top of this the rattlesnake can add another 800dps in cruise missile damage all the way out to 103km.

It's by no means a terribly frightening pirate ship, but it's going to have a role as a very effective and strong brawler that can hit out to all reasonable ranges with max dps with no falloff penalties.

I think it will be more popular than the old one, despite the fact that it can no longer carry heavy EWAR drones.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".