Player Features and Ideas Discussion

[Rorqual, Neutral Reps on Undock!!]

Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Capital Shield Booster I

Capital Remote Shield Booster I
Capital Remote Shield Booster I
Capital Remote Shield Booster I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit I


Stats (with level 5 skills)
- has ~1.4 MILLION effective hitpoints
- can self repair ~4800 hp/sec (or ~6000 hp/sec overheating)
- has a capacitor capacity of ~75000
- capacitor power lasts...
---- around 7 to 9 minutes with just the shield booster on.
---- around 5 to 7 minutes with the shield booster and neuts on.
---- around 2.9 minutes with just the remote reps on.
---- around 1.5 to 1.9 minutes with everything on.
- can remote repair about 900 damage per second (or 4500 hp every 5 seconds)... more if overloaded.


For reference... 2 Scimitars using the combined power of 6 large remote reps and 2 mediums can only repair ~535 hp/sec... and each ship has ~30 to 40 thousand EHP and ~1800 capacitor power.
Which would be easier to kill in 60 seconds?


Now if you want to get cheeky and ban all capital mods in high-sec (which directly affects POS operators because they use capital weapons for their large arrays)...

[Rorqual, NoCapitalMod-TinkerTank]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script

Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I

Garde II x5
Berserker II x5
Warrior II x5

Stats (with level 5 skills):
- has ~1.6 MILLION effective hitpoints
- has a capacitor capacity of ~68000
- capacitor power lasts...
---- about 7 minutes with just the remote reps on
---- about 4 minutes with everything on.
---- a little over an hour with just the remote reps on and receiving 2 large cap transfers
---- more than 8 minutes with everything on and receiving 2 large cap transfers
- has a native passive defense of ~180 damage per second.
- with a sister Rorqual using the same setup (or two Basilisks each giving a single cap transfer and 2 remote reps), both ships can repair each other for a tank of 1400 to 1800+ dps.
- can deal about 850 damage per second using Garde IIs... 760 dps using Berserker IIs... or ~230 dps using Warrior IIs.


Now please note... all these setups are JUST using level 5 skills... try adding in implants, boosters, and warfare links. The numbers you get will quickly become scary.

"The Rorqual isn't a combat ship"... "It won't affect warfare very much"... "it'll mostly be used by industrialists"...

A Rorqual in high-sec will be the single greatest combat multiplier and fleet ship anyone can get. It's a BEAST relative to everything else that currently exists in high-sec.

Remember what capital and supercapital ships taught everyone? If something gives a significant enough of an advantage then cost will fail to be a limiting factor.

And you would not use these kinds of ships outside of an undock... not without significant support at least... unless you are a moron.

And assuming that capital mods would not be banned, if you get enough of these ships RRing each other (let's say... 20+) then...
- you will be able to pull off fleets that are repping well past 18,000 damage per second
- with sentry dps well into the tens of thousands...
- and each ship having 1+ million effective hitpoints.
- with the ability to modify their fits or resupply their drones on fly (because they can all use their refitting service with each other).

Without capital mods you are still dealing with a ship that can act as a massive tinker-tank anchor to "normal" logi and RR battleships.

Google "Slowcat setup" if you wish to know more.


Regardless of where you go in EVE... raw numbers become the defining aspects of large scale warfare.
Sure, you'll kill quite a few idiot industry people at first (both their Rorqs and with your Rorq)... but then large groups will begin to use them as I have described above... and high-sec will QQ in a way that makes Hulkageddon and Burn Jita look like mild unhappiness.

You're now assuming that two people want to waste a lot of money. On top of that people by nature are creative and smart. To defeat that refitting I could use two frigs with mwd's. Bump them out of refitting range and done, their base speed is 60 m/s so bump them 10km from each other and it would take them a year to get close enough to start their damage loop again.

I still don't see the problem with letting them into high sec, if drones were such an issue wouldn't you see more fleets of Domi's, Istar's, Arma's, etc. sitting outside station with an Orca doing it now? That drone scenario is even cheaper than two Rorqual's and causes more damage.

It's funny how everyone will grab onto any reason they can imagine to keep Rorquals out of high sec rather than use that imagination finding ways to stop them IF they decide to do one of those scenarios.

there are many ships with a 10% bonus to drone dps and damage, the ishtar has that, AND it can use 5 heavy or sentry drones, and it has more low slots for drone damage mods. so i would have no issue on changing the bonus to drones to say make it during core deployment, and then bumping it to something between 30-50% since it runs fuel and move the fleet boosting bonus to non deployed mode as well as give it the suspect flag like the bastion mode does for marauders.

The max i was able to get a rorqual up to with all lvl 5 skills was 1025ish DPS, hardly an uber powerhouse. a carrier with fighters is much higher. a couple of ishtars could far out dps a single rorqual.
As for its tank, it wont be suicide gankable, oh boohoo, guess you have to work out some other way of getting at the tasty loot contained therein. Tho, honestly, they said the same about the orca when it was released, the gankers just got more creative. and since CCP has no problem with isboxer it seems, its still in the perview of a solo suicide ganker. so, you have your counter.

There is... buff the Rorqual so it behaves and has stats similar to a carrier... but with the "extra" industrial emphasis on it. Bringing it into high-sec would require the hull itself to be nerfed so it can't be used to the overwhelming advantage of larger, richer, entities.

I don't think you are seeing the whole picture. It is not any single thing that makes capitals in highsec a bad thing, it is all of them combined. Capital tank, Capital remote reps and cap transfers, capital self-reps, capital tank, decent drone dps, all of those things combined in the relative saftey of highsec will make them terrible gameplay for anyone who doesnt have their own rorqs and rorq gangs.

Also, turning drones into a indy core bonus would kill their drone use in dangerous space where they currently live, which already very limited. Imho, indy core needs to die.


You have heavily under estimated the tanking capabilites of the rorqual.

In this example we are going to use tornado because anything else just wont put out enough dps in time to kill it without concord showing up and ending the gank.

1 tornado 12,000 volley damage and approx 60mil cost (the damage is rounded up using best T2 mods abvailable and the cost is lowballed based on T1 fits)

A: Rorqual with only shield tank (no rigs, no lowslot mods)
1mil ehp
B: Rorqual with DCII, 2x bulkheads, shield booster, hardeners, and 3 cargo rigs (reduces armor)
1.8mil ehp
C: Rorqual fit for nothing but tank: T2 shield extender rigs, no shield booster, same fitting as above otherwise
2.5mil ehp

lets do some simple math to figure out how much it is going to cost to gank each one shall we?

A: 1,000,000/12,000 = 83 x 60,000,000 = 5,000,000,000 (5 billion)

B: 1,800,000/12,000 = 150 x 60,000,000 = 9,000,000,000 (9 Billion)

C: 2,500,000/12,000 = 208 x 60,000,000 = 12,480,000 (12.48 Billion)

All of that just to kill a 2.5 billion isk ship

Any capital ship that can git capital mods is going to be nigh on untouchable in highsec.

Like I said before, the rorqual is not the ship to be doing this. It belongs in dangerous space.

The ship you need to be asking for buffs to cargo and other things for highsec use is the orca.

I would specify it to belong in a space we don't have in EVE.

Concord makes it overpowered in high sec.
Other capital ships make it underpowered everywhere else.

Where can we send this, enough to justify it's existence, which has neither Concord nor other capital ships?

First, you are assuming Concord wouldn't stick their nose into that fight and add to the damage the Rorqual is taking. Second, you are also assuming that ship would stay 2.5 bill IF it were allowed into high sec (it won't I promise you). Third, CCP could always make capital mods like the bomb launcher and make it unusable in highsec.

To whoever it was that said I don't know about capital ships. You're right I don't fly capitals because they are boring and bullet magnets. I wasn't saying use those ships specifically, but you need to see the idea I was trying to put across. There are ways to combat certain ships with strategies creatively thought up by the players. Nothing in eve is immortal except for the capsuleers.

Last I checked we were talking about the Rorqual being used to gank others. It is nice to know your tears are formed because you want an easier target like industrials.

Sure, take away its drone damage bonus and it'd work well in HS. Better than being stuck within pos shields out in LS and null.