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BLM backs off Neveda round-up!

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Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-04-13 11:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Yea, it's a couple days old news for those in the US, but...

*Snip* Removed external link. ISD Ezwal.

...and for those who beleive it was simply about back payments or some turtle...

*Snip* Removed external link. ISD Ezwal.

The head of the BLM is an former Harry Reid top aid, and his son, which Reid is under investiagtion for diverting campiangs fund to, is the one who brokered the deal with the Chinese, who wanted the cattle of the land.

The family doesn't dispute they owe money, they just believe they owe the money to the state and that the BLM has no authority over State land.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2 - 2014-04-13 12:51:38 UTC
That family has been raising cattle around there since the 1800s and just don't want to pay their fines for illegal grazing.

But, calling upon sovereign militias and blocking Interstate traffic is no way to solve the issue or to bring the public over to their side.

Federal land is federal land, and will stay federal land until notified otherwise.

It's these armed militias that are abusing the principles of democracy. Imagine if they came out everytime they were "upset" at something determined by laws and elections. That makes them no better than Putin's goons.

This is just an ugly situation being made worse by out of state-ers with guns just trying to see what they can get away with. And it's a very dangerous precedent.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-04-13 13:03:19 UTC
It's not Federal Land, it's State land. The family's grazing rights go back to the 1800's and is filed with the State of Neveda. They have continued to try and pay the State of Nevada for the grazing rights as per the original agreement.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#4 - 2014-04-13 13:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Bundy's dispute with the government *) began about 1993 when the bureau changed grazing rules for the 600,000-acre Gold Butte area to protect an endangered desert tortoise, KLAS reported.

Bundy refused to abide by the changes and stopped paying his grazing fees to the federal bureau, which he contends is infringing on state rights. His family has been ranching since the 1800s, before the U.S. Department of Interior was created and endangered species became a federal issue, he said in an interview with KLAS."

It's just a bunch of State Rights Yokels not wanting to acknowledge that the situation has drastically changed in the last 150 years.

They have had the fair opportunity of leaving the area for over 20 years, but instead choose voluntarily to not remove themselves in order to make a seriously useless point. The feds do grant grazing rights for their land, if gone through the proper channels.

Again, it's just a bunch of State Rights nonsense being exploited for free grazing rights.

What if the American Indian descendants of the Manhato Tribe decide that they now own New York City by "ancient heritage". Same thing.


*) = *Snip* Removed external link. ISD Ezwal.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2014-04-13 13:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
It's not Federal Land, it's State land. The family's grazing rights go back to the 1800's and is filed with the State of Neveda. They have continued to try and pay the State of Nevada for the grazing rights as per the original agreement.



No.

Those State Lands became Federal Lands with the founding of the BLM.

Also, I find tons of references to them stopping the payment to federal government, but absolutely no references to "still pays the State of Nevada". Why would they pay Nevada if Nevada does not own the land ???


ed: There are just a lot of wackos living in the American Southwest who are following the tenants of the Tea Party. They just absolutely cannot stand the fact that there is a person of color sitting in the White House determining policy. Since 2008 they have fought and fought for their states to be able to do what they please in opposition to the rest of the country.

This has lead to Arizona trying to insert some kind of religious belief "violation" laws because they believe the gay community is "persecuting" them. (Should sound familiar to anyone still alive from 1930s Germany).

It's no different.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#6 - 2014-04-13 13:54:06 UTC
so ...is this a story about the us government over reaching themselves ?.
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-04-13 13:56:39 UTC
It's State land, by what authority does the Federal Government have to imply regualtions?
if the issue is to protect a turtle, then the Federal Government should have bought the land from the State by which they then would have authority to regulate the land.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2014-04-13 14:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
It's State land, by what authority does the Federal Government have to imply regualtions?
if the issue is to protect a turtle, then the Federal Government should have bought the land from the State by which they then would have authority to regulate the land.



Since when does the Fed Gov have to "buy" land that it already possesses? That happened with Nevada Statehood and admission to the US, the very point these loons are ignoring.

Sorry, but I'm never going to change my mind on this, and this whole thing sets a dangerous precedent. Calling out militias from other states to "solve" this kind of nonsense is not how things are done, and just hurts their case.

These people are poor, bored, hate the feds, and are just looking for trouble. I doubt anyone involved except the Bundy's even truly have a grasp of what it's all about.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-04-13 14:07:24 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
It's State land, by what authority does the Federal Government have to imply regualtions?
if the issue is to protect a turtle, then the Federal Government should have bought the land from the State by which they then would have authority to regulate the land.



Since when does the Fed Gov have to "buy" land that it already possesses? That happened with Nevada Statehood and admission to the US, the very point these loons are ignoring.

Sorry, but I'm never going to change my mind on this, and this whole thing sets a dangerous precedent. Calling out militias from other states to "solve" this kind of nonsense is not how things are done, and just hurts their case.

These people are poor, bored, hate the feds, and are just looking for trouble. I doubt anyone involved except the Bundy's even truly have a grasp of what it's all about.

The Federal Government does not own states, they are sovereign entities guaranteed under the Constitution. The Federal Government owned the land when it was a territory, but once it became a state, the land became sovereign land of the State of Nevada, not property of the US Government.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2014-04-13 14:14:36 UTC
Regardles, my beef is mainly with the "militias" that showed up with guns and rarin' to go. That is not how any problem is solved. It turned the whole thing into a circus. And made it harder for the general public to be sympathetic to their side.

These people are just wanting "action" and absolutely no oversight by the Federal Government in anything at all. It's a very very dangerous precedent.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-04-13 15:17:00 UTC
Just because something is called a law, does not make it just. - RAIN Arthie
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#12 - 2014-04-13 17:51:49 UTC
the US government clearly likes turtles.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#13 - 2014-04-13 18:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
The dude has had over 20 years to move his cattle elsewhere.

Enough was enough.

*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

If states and their "militias" start trying to reclaim past ownership......that's going to be a huge can of worms as people whose ancestors actually owned land in the South start trying to claim their soveriegn rights to land and properties they lost over 150 years ago. Sounds ridiculous but that is exactly where this type of thinking is going to lead.

Sorry, but there is no way to "un-burn" Atlanta.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Karl Staufenberg
Executor Industries
#14 - 2014-04-14 06:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Staufenberg
The US does not function as a true democracy. It's a constitutional republic. There's a pretty significant difference. As of so far, there aren't any viable alternatives either. Feudalism, dictatorships, pretty much any form of government that has been tried has someone that's pissed at the status quo.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#15 - 2014-04-14 23:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
LMAO!!!

To both side of this problem.

This is not a liberal or a conservative issue but many will never realize this. 'They' keep us divided with their tripe while all of 'them' continue to run to the banks.

I am not going to get much deeper, but if you feel this is the gravest of the offenses the US government puts its people through then eyes need to be opened a tad bit more.

All I will say is prisons.


EDIT:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


When everyone's opinions and "knowledge" are equalized to that degree (no bonus points for the professional, and everyone has a voice), it's the death of a culture.


The funniest thing I read is when someone on a forum says you are an internet....(psychologist, lawyer...) and say they are not going to entertain your text because, anyone could sit on the other side of the screen and say what you are saying and since I can not verify your credentials, you are a fake.

I am thinking that these people never, ever have a successful debate or conversation in real life...accept with people that believe the same as they. It must go something like, "show me your degree before we go any further with this convo..." Lol
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2014-04-15 16:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Even notoriously conservative columnists think Bundy over-reached:



"The rancher says he does not recognize the authority of federal courts. "I abide by all of Nevada state laws," Breitbart Texas reports that the scion told talk radio. "But, I don't recognize the United States government as even existing.""

"He was willing to start a "range war" and risk the lives of his supporters in order to retrieve some cows. He doesn't feel he has to recognize a government elected by his fellow citizens. "

"Bundy could have fought the government at the ballot box by trying to elect members of Congress who want to de-fang the BLM....That's the American way. Threatening to shoot law enforcement officers who simply are carrying out court orders is not."


*Snip* Removed external link. ISD Ezwal.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-04-15 20:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Even notoriously conservative columnists think Bundy over-reached:



"The rancher says he does not recognize the authority of federal courts. "I abide by all of Nevada state laws," Breitbart Texas reports that the scion told talk radio. "But, I don't recognize the United States government as even existing.""

"He was willing to start a "range war" and risk the lives of his supporters in order to retrieve some cows. He doesn't feel he has to recognize a government elected by his fellow citizens. "

"Bundy could have fought the government at the ballot box by trying to elect members of Congress who want to de-fang the BLM....That's the American way. Threatening to shoot law enforcement officers who simply are carrying out court orders is not."


*Snip* Removed external link. ISD Ezwal.

From the same atricle:
"The federal government, which owns more than 80 percent of Nevada land, including the land on which the Bundy family had settled, threatened to put him out to pasture. "

Debra J. Saunders, the author of the article, is assuming the Federal Government owns the land, which it does not. Anything after that and her argument falls apart under false assumptions.

It's clear she knows little of the events, and is just quoting (misquoting) from other articles written by other people.

She's a "conservative" columnists for the San Francisco Times. In Far Left San Fran, being a moderate liberal will get you labeled a Far Right Nutwing.

Edit. When one is misinformed they do themselves an injustice. When one is misinformed with a pen in their hand, they do us all an injustice.
Such is the sad state of modern journalism in the US, and worldwide.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2014-04-16 09:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
According to the Out of Pod Experience Rules discussions about politics are not allowed:

3. Discussions about politics and religion not allowed, there are other websites with forums for these topics.

Thread locked.

Edit: I removed the most rule breaking posts and those quoting them.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)